Red dogs you are on target with Sister White .I am glad that you are not stoning the prophet.
Thanks Sumo, many here not only want to stone but destroy any message or light that the prophet brings......
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Red dogs you are on target with Sister White .I am glad that you are not stoning the prophet.
Bradford's book More Than a Prophet is available free online:
http://www.sdanet.org/atissue/books/bradford/index.htm.
He definitely is more honest in addressing the criticisms of EGW than some of the more traditional Adventist authors have been. I don't agree with all of his conclusions, however.
Brings? The prophet is dead. The present tense is inappropriate here.Thanks Sumo, many here not only want to stone but destroy any message or light that the prophet brings......
Revelation 1:1 reveals the chain of authority that is in God.So if Ellen White's views were never intended to be a test of doctrine and fellowship, and the Review writers were never supposed to refer to her writings as authority on any point, I wonder what James would think of the church's current fundamental-belief statement regarding his wife:Perhaps James couldn't be a traditional Adventist either if he were alive today.18. The Gift of Prophecy:
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)
Brings? The prophet is dead. The present tense is inappropriate here.
So if Ellen White's views were never intended to be a test of doctrine and fellowship, and the Review writers were never supposed to refer to her writings as authority on any point, I wonder what James would think of the church's current fundamental-belief statement regarding his wife:
Perhaps James couldn't be a traditional Adventist either if he were alive today.18. The Gift of Prophecy:
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)
This is not clear. Are you saying there were or were not to be any prophets after EGW?That's only assuming that there are or were, however you want to look at it, to be no other prophets after EGW, which, if we are to believe the Bible and stand on the promises of God, is not to be the case.
Why do you need "a" standard if you have access to "the" standard? It sounds as if you don't trust "the" standard and have more confidence in "a" standard.EGW's writing are not the standard, just a clearer glass for us to use to see more clearly. We can use it or we can discard it, the choice, as in everything we do in our lives, is ours.
(I'm surprised you others did catch this right off)
I believe you misunderstand what is being said here. Pay special attentions to "a continuing and authoritative source of truth" notice it doesn't say "the continuing and authoritative source of truth"? A source is another reference to be used in addition to other references. Check out the next sentence "They (EGW's writings) also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested." A standard is the base by which other things are compared, in this case that standard is the Bible and the emphasis is that all things must be tested by it.
EGW's writing are not the standard, just a clearer glass for us to use to see more clearly. We can use it or we can discard it, the choice, as in everything we do in our lives, is ours.
(I'm surprised you others did catch this right off)
EGW's writing are not the standard, just a clearer glass for us to use to see more clearly. We can use it or we can discard it, the choice, as in everything we do in our lives, is ours.
(I'm surprised you others did catch this right off)
Why do you need "a" standard if you have access to "the" standard? It sounds as if you don't trust "the" standard and have more confidence in "a" standard.
FB #18 said:One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)
That Scripture said:All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
The following is Fundamental Belief # 18 of the SDA Church
Originally Posted by FB #18One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)This states that Ellen's writings are "A" continuing and AUTHORITATIVE source of truth and states that these writings INTERPRET the Bible. Ellen's writings provide the SDA Church guidance, instruction and correction.
No where in the FB #18 does it say that EGW's writings interpret the Bible.
FB #1 said:The Holy Scriptures are the infallible revelation of His will. They are the standard of character, the test of experience, the authoritative revealer of doctrines, and the trustworthy record of God's acts in history.
MVA said:It says that her writings "make clear" that the Bible is the Standard.
It indeed does. FB #18 says that the writtings of White are continuing and "authoritative" and also that the writtings provide instruction AND CORRECTION.
The FB dealing with the Bible only says of the Bible THAT,
That's what it says.
If what Ellen wrote guides and corrects the church then FB #18 is explicit that it's Ellen's understanding of what is in the Bible that's the truth, not what you believe the text to say. I've covered this previously in this thread and backed it up with proof that every doctrine specific to SDA's was established by Ellen White THEN and ONLY THEN can the Bible be said to be the standard after those specific doctrines have been identified by Ellen White.
Originally Posted by mva1985No where in the FB #18 does it say that EGW's writings interpret the Bible.It indeed does. FB #18 says that the writtings of White are continuing and "authoritative" and also that the writtings provide instruction AND CORRECTION.
The FB dealing with the Bible only says of the Bible THAT,
Originally Posted by FB #1The Holy Scriptures are the infallible revelation of His will. They are the standard of character, the test of experience, the authoritative revealer of doctrines, and the trustworthy record of God's acts in history.That's what it says.
Originally Posted by MVAIt says that her writings "make clear" that the Bible is the Standard.If what Ellen wrote guides and corrects the church then FB #18 is explicit that it's Ellen's understanding of what is in the Bible that's the truth, not what you believe the text to say. I've covered this previously in this thread and backed it up with proof that every doctrine specific to SDA's was established by Ellen White THEN and ONLY THEN can the Bible be said to be the standard after those specific doctrines have been identified by Ellen White.
And that settles it. MVA has spoken. The truth has been declared.Every doctrine of the SDA church can be totally proved from the Bible.
Pythons,
Interesting that you refuse to address the point where it says that her writings MAKE CLEAR that the Bible is the Standard.
MVA said:Interesting that you refuse to address the point where it says that her writings MAKE CLEAR that the Bible is the Standard after she has established the true meaning of it.
Ellen White said:I have seen that the 1843 chart was directed by the hand of the Lord, and that it should not be altered; that the figures were as He wanted them, that His hand was over and hid a mistake in some of the figures so that none could see it until His hand was removed
MVA said:It does not state that her writings interpret the Bible. Its not there. Anyone can read it for themselves. You are reading into it more then what is there. PERIOD.