It's the let's talk about Jacob thread.

[AirPo]

Did anyone notice anything interesting about Jacob's visits?

I'll throw one out. He visited Kate and Saywer as children, but the others as adults. Does that mean Kate and Saywer as supposed to be togeter? At least according to Jacob's plan?

 

[LovesToBless]

He made sure that Sayid didn't get hit by that car.

That was horrible....and reminded me of when Juliette's ex-husband was hit by the bus.

Why did he visit Alaina (do I have her name right)

He visited all of the Oceanic 6...except Aaron...unless he did and we don't know that yet.

He brought John back to life.

 

[AirPo]

He made sure that Sayid didn't get hit by that car.

That was horrible....and reminded me of when Juliette's ex-husband was hit by the bus.

My wife pointed that out. But I'm wondering if it was a set up to kill Nadine.

Why did he visit Alaina (do I have her name right)

He visited all of the Oceanic 6...except Aaron...unless he did and we don't know that yet.

He brought John back to life.

 

[LovesToBless]

My wife pointed that out. But I'm wondering if it was a set up to kill Nadine.

Yeah, I think it was for sure. And Jacob made sure that Sayid wasn't walking with her and got hit too...or stopped her from being hit.

Ultimately, it got Sayid back to the island...just like the bus incident got Juliette to the island in the first place.

Poor Sayid.

 

[LovesToBless]

Did anyone notice anything interesting about Jacob's visits?

I'll throw one out. He visited Kate and Saywer as children, but the others as adults. Does that mean Kate and Saywer as supposed to be togeter? At least according to Jacob's plan?

Hmm, could be. I was thinking it was to show us more about what they were like. He gave Sawyer the pen that he used to write that letter. I said to my husband..."the start of the con man" when James told that adult man that he wouldn't write the letter.

Kate also didn't keep to the right path, even as Jacob encouraged her to.

Anyone else notice that little boy with Kate had the toy plane in his hands that ends up in her security deposit box a few seasons ago?

 

[AirPo]

Hmm, could be. I was thinking it was to show us more about what they were like. He gave Sawyer the pen that he used to write that letter. I said to my husband..."the start of the con man" when James told that adult man that he wouldn't write the letter.

Kate also didn't keep to the right path, even as Jacob encouraged her to.

Anyone else notice that little boy with Kate had the toy plane in his hands that ends up in her security deposit box a few seasons ago?

I caught that but I was a bit suprised the the plane went back that far.

 

[The_Evelyonian]

What I'm wondering is why Jacob gave Ben the cold shoulder.

"What about me?"

"What about you?"

 

[AirPo]

What I'm wondering is why Jacob gave Ben the cold shoulder.

"What about me?"

"What about you?"

I wonder if Jacob knew what was about to happened and was just making sure Ben went through with it?

 

[Redguard]

Jacob's Korean is excellent.

 

[AirPo]

Jacob's Korean is excellent.

I'm thinking that can't be the only joke the writers slipped in.

 

[sweeticus]

Anyone else notice that little boy with Kate had the toy plane in his hands that ends up in her security deposit box a few seasons ago?

I caught that but I was a bit suprised the the plane went back that far.

That was in one of Kate's flashback episodes. She and the boy were childhood friends and they buried the plane in a time capsule as kids. After she killed her father, she went back to visit her friend and got him to dig up the time capsule. They had the plane out and were talking about it when something happened that put them on the run from the police again (I don't remember how that came about) and her friend ended up getting killed in a wreck as she was trying to escape. Later, when she robbed the bank and got into the safe deposit box, she got the plane out of it.

Back to Jacob, I re-watched the opening scene again and it seemed like Jacob and "Esau" could almost be portrayed as God and Satan. Esau said the Black Rock (I assume) found the island because Jacob brought it there to try to prove him wrong again. He seemed to have a very cynical view of humanity, that they come, kill, corrupt, while Jacob had a positive view that it only ends once and anything up to that point is progress. Then Esau said he wanted badly to kill Jacob. It reminded me a lot of the power struggle between God and Satan over Job, and over humanity in general actually.

Also, when 815 crashed, Ben said he wanted lists right away. There was a mention in this episode that everyone takes orders from Jacob, including all the lists. So Jacob was probably the one who wanted the lists after the crash, but I'm not sure why he didn't already know whatever he wanted to know since he seems rather omniscient.

Was Jacob the one who asked Locke to "help me" the first time he visited the cabin? Jacob seems to always have lived in the statue, so I wonder if the "help me" actually came from Esau, and if he isn't the one who has been living in the cabin all this time.

 

[The_Evelyonian]

Was Jacob the one who asked Locke to "help me" the first time he visited the cabin? Jacob seems to always have lived in the statue, so I wonder if the "help me" actually came from Esau, and if he isn't the one who has been living in the cabin all this time.

I think that's going to be the case. Iliana (sp?) said in the finale that "someone else" had been using Jacobs cabin so I think it'll turn out to be Esau that's been in the cabin all this time.

 

[BenAdam]

What I'm wondering is why Jacob gave Ben the cold shoulder.

"What about me?"

"What about you?"

I think Jacob was questioning whether or not what Ben had done was for the Island, or for Ben.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

What I'm wondering is why Jacob gave Ben the cold shoulder.

"What about me?"

"What about you?"

My bet? He was manipulating Ben into killing him. Do you remember the episode "Cabin Fever", where Locke offered Hurley the choice to return to the beach, only to find that Hurley insisted on tagging along? This was a pretty similar situation - except this time around, it was Ben who was being manipulated.

I think Ben plays the part of Judas, basically: the loyal disciple who grows so frustrated that he becomes a traitor to the one he followed - yet in that betrayal, he ultimately does exactly what he was supposed to do.
The being that appears in the shape of dead people found a loophole - but so did Jacob. And it doesn't seem to matter whether Jacob lives or dies; he'll still win in the end.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

I doubt that Jacob is the Biblical Jacob - the show uses LOTS of biblical themes and imagery, but that'd be a little *too* literal, if you ask me.

Do you know what I thought of when I saw the opening sequence of this season finale? The wager between God and Satan at the beginning of the book of Job - except that it's not quite clear who plays which part.
Sure, Jacob seems to be the "good guy" here - but he is also the one who disrupts the Order of the island, tainting paradise by bringing strangers here. He's a trickster figure - just like the devil - rather than a champion of the Powers that Be. He plays by the rules, yet seeks to bend them as much as possible in order to fundamentally change things. (Whereas the anonymous guy in the black shirt is a creature of order and determinism - he seeks a loophole, yes, but only to keep things as they were, not to change them for the better.)

Or think of the very first shot, showing the weaving of the tapestry: I think that's what both Jacob and his adversary have done throughout the millennia - they crafted plans that took long to execute, but eventually turned into the Big Picture that will resolve the conflict - and wrap up all the seasons of the series.

Oh, and the statue? It just *might* be Set, the Egyptian god of storms and darkness.
Why? Because Set killed his brother Osiris, and threw his remains into the Nile. Osiris's wife Isis, however, gathered his remains and brought him back to life, so that he could become the god of the underworld.

 

[sweeticus]

It occurred to me after another re-watch that not-Locke didn't seem to have the knowledge I would have assumed he'd have based on his history on the island with Jacob. He didn't know where Jacob lived, and needed Richard to lead him.

But beyond that, once they got to the statue, not-Locke asked Richard why they were stopping, then said it was a "very nice statue but what's this got to do with Jacob?" If he was body-snatching Locke but was really "Esau" the whole time, why didn't he know that the statue was where Jacob lived? He was there with him in the scene at the beginning of the episode but he seemed clueless.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

It occurred to me after another re-watch that not-Locke didn't seem to have the knowledge I would have assumed he'd have based on his history on the island with Jacob. He didn't know where Jacob lived, and needed Richard to lead him.

But beyond that, once they got to the statue, not-Locke asked Richard why they were stopping, then said it was a "very nice statue but what's this got to do with Jacob?" If he was body-snatching Locke but was really "Esau" the whole time, why didn't he know that the statue was where Jacob lived? He was there with him in the scene at the beginning of the episode but he seemed clueless.

Yeah, I think the "effigies" created by the smoke monster are a lot more like their deceased templates than one might assume. Whether it's Christian Shepherd, Mr. Eko's brother Jemi, Ben's deceased mother, Alex Rousseau, or John Locke seemingly returned from the dead: all of them seemed to have more than intimate knowledge of the persons they "impersonated", if that's the right word. In many ways, they seem to be these persons, sharing their mannerisms, emotions and motivations to the point where even loved ones cannot tell that they're not the ones they seem to be.

 

[Redguard]

not-Locke asked Richard why they were stopping

Oh, I have a new name for him!!! Ready for it???



"un-locke"!!!

 

[sweeticus]

Oh, I have a new name for him!!! Ready for it???



"un-locke"!!!

Love it!

 

[Thinker]

So...at the start we had Jacob and somebody who was presumably the physical incarnation of 'Smokey' on the beach. But...missing from that picture was one Richard Alpert. Presumably he was also around then (maybe he arrived on that ship the two were watching?) but I suspect he was on the island before then.

Mention has been made of Jacobs fluent Korean.

It has also been shown a few times that the others use latin to communicate among themselves.

It looks like Jacob and 'Smokey' had some sort of magical pact with each other - most likely Jacob had Smokey 'bound' somehow. Smokey really didn't care for that and really wanted Jacob dead, but the terms of the pact didn't allow for that under most circumstances. So...who was Jacob that he would have the knowledge required to formulate/make use of such a pact in the first place?

My suspicion, in light of the other stuff...Jacob (and probably Alpert) were originally priests, probably Catholic, on one of the very early missions to the orient. Somehow, they ended up on the island and essentially 'founded' the 'Others', 'bnding' Smokey in the process.

I also suspect there is a lot more going on here than just the death of Jacob and the freeing of Smokey.