Is modern secular society headed down the path to Sodom and Gomorrah.

Hans Blaster

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It doesn't matter what anyone thinks about it. It matters that it happens, so that the standard of belief is maintained. This is the revelation of God to humanity, not denying a label to a group out of spite or whatever else is imagined by those who don't care either way about the religion. Worship the Holy Trinity or get out.
I have no intention of worshipping anything or leaving. This seems a rather aggressive position to take.
Again, it doesn't matter how anyone feels about it.



Poor catechesis and/or a lack of understanding among those who set themselves up as teachers will always be something to strive against, yes. As to your personal belief, that's a personal issue and not really something I would want to get into on the forums either way. Everyone has their own journey and their own life to live.
It's a former belief. It's not a matter of bad "cahatecis" or the fault of any teachers. It is a position that frankly just does not make sense to me and seems to be repeatedly contradicted by the text of the NT. (And to be clear, I didn't realize until a few years ago that I hadn't actually believed the trinity doctrine.)
I'm not sure which animated documentary you're referring to ("The Godmakers", perhaps? That particular film seems dated and needlessly slanderous to me, but that's usually the one that people have seen),
I've never heard of that one, but the "documentary" I had in mind spawned a Broadway musical. :)
but I mean what the LDS have had to admit more recently than that, since the invention of the internet and the corresponding loss of control over the presentation of their historical sources. Now they cannot deny that this method of 'translation' was used, and have even published photos of similar stones (I can't remember if they say that they have JS's actual seer stone or a replica) in an effort to normalize this practice in the minds of members who would've previously thought that the translation happened differently (because of the popularity of certain artistic depictions of JS "translating" by physically handling and 'reading' from the supposed plates).
Things are always a bit iffy when a religion is cooked up by a con man.
 
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Dan1988

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I think you are right in that theree are two main dynamically opposed worldviews. In that sense I think its a spiritual battle, an ideological and philosophical and even an ontological battle for reality itself.

But primarily a spiritual battle and we see this in how theres a growing antagonism and resentment between people that they are willing to destroy opposing views to the point of violence and even death.
The Bible describes two kingdoms, co existing in the world. We have the Kingdom of Darkness, run by the Devil and His army of Demons. And we have the Kingdom of God. These are at war, with each other. The war is for the soul of man, and the weapons used are deception and truth. The Devil always has a counterfeit version of everything that the Bible teaches.

Every persons eternal destiny is decided by what they believe, we all make choices about everything based on what we believe to be true. The Devil is very wise and crafty and patient, everything He does is aimed at deceiving people into believing He doesn't exist. He hides in the shadows and plans His schemes to destroy us.

The default human condition, is to gravitate towards living life in rebellion towards God's commandments. We naturally resist God's ways, because our default condition desires the freedom to do our own thing and live to fulfill our desires. The Kingdom of Darkness takes advantage of our state of rebellion and hardens us in it.

The Bible says that the Devil is the Prince of this world, Jesus said His Kingdom is not of this world. He also said that the world hates Him, and it will hate those who follow Him. He went on to say that anyone who seeks his life will lose it and everyone who loses their life for my Names sake will find everlasting life. This teaching goes against our nature, and it's foolish to those who don't believe in God.

The only world view that makes sense to me is the Biblical world view, as it provides the only logical reason why the world is so messed up. The Bible said that the world would sink into deeper and deeper depravity, until we become like Sodom and Gamora again.

The humanist teach that, mankind is evolving into a higher conciseness and that science and technology would solve the social and moral problems by teaching ethics. But we're witnessing the opposite, it seems that the more advanced technology becomes, the more depraved man becomes. It seems to just enable him to kill more efficiently and commit other crimes more easily.
 
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dzheremi

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I have no intention of worshipping anything or leaving. This seems a rather aggressive position to take.

It's the position of historical Christianity towards those who claim to be with us but aren't. (Not you specifically, since you don't claim to be Christian; sorry for any confusion.)

I've never heard of that one, but the "documentary" I had in mind spawned a Broadway musical. :)

Oh. South Park. Got it.

Things are always a bit iffy when a religion is cooked up by a con man.

Iffy and then some.
 
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stevevw

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The Bible describes two kingdoms, co existing in the world. We have the Kingdom of Darkness, run by the Devil and His army of Demons. And we have the Kingdom of God. These are at war, with each other. The war is for the soul of man, and the weapons used are deception and truth. The Devil always has a counterfeit version of everything that the Bible teaches.

Every persons eternal destiny is decided by what they believe, we all make choices about everything based on what we believe to be true. The Devil is very wise and crafty and patient, everything He does is aimed at deceiving people into believing He doesn't exist. He hides in the shadows and plans His schemes to destroy us.

The default human condition, is to gravitate towards living life in rebellion towards God's commandments. We naturally resist God's ways, because our default condition desires the freedom to do our own thing and live to fulfill our desires. The Kingdom of Darkness takes advantage of our state of rebellion and hardens us in it.

The Bible says that the Devil is the Prince of this world, Jesus said His Kingdom is not of this world. He also said that the world hates Him, and it will hate those who follow Him. He went on to say that anyone who seeks his life will lose it and everyone who loses their life for my Names sake will find everlasting life. This teaching goes against our nature, and it's foolish to those who don't believe in God.

The only world view that makes sense to me is the Biblical world view, as it provides the only logical reason why the world is so messed up. The Bible said that the world would sink into deeper and deeper depravity, until we become like Sodom and Gamora again.

The humanist teach that, mankind is evolving into a higher conciseness and that science and technology would solve the social and moral problems by teaching ethics. But we're witnessing the opposite, it seems that the more advanced technology becomes, the more depraved man becomes. It seems to just enable him to kill more efficiently and commit other crimes more easily.
You make some good points biblically. In some ways I think generally there has been a gradual evolving away from the time of Christ and in the early years of Christianity until today for the west. That much is true.

The fathers of the American Declaration thought there was a creator God who gave order to this world. Now secular society doesn't think so. Humans have become the creator of order. We are no longer made in Gods image but now humankind makes God in their image.

That is probably the main difference I think. As time has gone by to varying degrees we still looked to God but now as a society we look to ourselves. Like you say technology and science because they give humans great power. But as we know that power is not the true answer to life.

In a time when we have more things to make us happy, healthy and fullfilled more and more people are experiencing unhappiness and dispair. Maybe it is that this has to run its course before things will change. Reality has a way of coming back to remind us that we cannot mess with it.
 
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BCP1928

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You make some good points biblically. In some ways I think generally there has been a gradual evolving away from the time of Christ and in the early years of Christianity until today for the west. That much is true.

The fathers of the American Declaration thought there was a creator God who gave order to this world. Now secular society doesn't think so. Humans have become the creator of order. We are no longer made in Gods image but now humankind makes God in their image.

That is probably the main difference I think. As time has gone by to varying degrees we still looked to God but now as a society we look to ourselves. Like you say technology and science because they give humans great power. But as we know that power is not the true answer to life.

In a time when we have more things to make us happy, healthy and fullfilled more and more people are experiencing unhappiness and dispair. Maybe it is that this has to run its course before things will change. Reality has a way of coming back to remind us that we cannot mess with it.
Yes, all we need to do is to put the LGBT people back in the closet and all our problems will be solved.
 
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Zaha Torte

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I've never heard of that one, but the "documentary" I had in mind spawned a Broadway musical.
What documentary was this?

And did you get a chance to see that musical? If so - was it good?

I probably won't ever see it.
Things are always a bit iffy when a religion is cooked up by a con man.
Why do you believe that Joseph Smith Jr was a "con man"?
 
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Zaha Torte

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What is the ideology they share?
They share many general progressive and/or Satan-inspired ideologies such as: feminism, destruction of the nuclear family, sexual liberation (premarital sex, homosexuality, adultery), transgenderism, sexualizing and/or grooming children, worship of self, worship of creation, fascism, communism, thought and speech control - etc.

Each organization may not espouse each of these but there is a lot of overlap.
 
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BCP1928

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They share many general progressive and/or Satan-inspired ideologies such as: feminism, destruction of the nuclear family, sexual liberation (premarital sex, homosexuality, adultery), transgenderism, sexualizing and/or grooming children, worship of self, worship of creation, fascism, communism, thought and speech control - etc.

Each organization may not espouse each of these but there is a lot of overlap.
So the only thing they share, apparently, is that they don't pay any attention to your ideas about how to do sex right.
 
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Zaha Torte

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So the only thing they share, apparently, is that they don't pay any attention to your ideas about how to do sex right.
Rather reductive - but why do you believe that they are my ideas?
 
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Zaha Torte

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You're the one posting in favor of them, and you haven't attributed them to anyone else.
Fair enough - but just for future reference - I am always going to advocate for God's agenda.

God designed men and women a certain way and He gave them commandments to follow to make them happy and productive.
 
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BCP1928

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Fair enough - but just for future reference - I am always going to advocate for God's agenda.

God designed men and women a certain way and He gave them commandments to follow to make them happy and productive.
Yes, that's your idea that I was referring to.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Fair enough - but just for future reference - I am always going to advocate for God's agenda.

God designed men and women a certain way and He gave them commandments to follow to make them happy and productive.

And what's up with the polygamy thing among some (seeming) Mormons that my wife keeps seeing on TLC?
 
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Dan1988

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You make some good points biblically. In some ways I think generally there has been a gradual evolving away from the time of Christ and in the early years of Christianity until today for the west. That much is true.

The fathers of the American Declaration thought there was a creator God who gave order to this world. Now secular society doesn't think so. Humans have become the creator of order. We are no longer made in Gods image but now humankind makes God in their image.

That is probably the main difference I think. As time has gone by to varying degrees we still looked to God but now as a society we look to ourselves. Like you say technology and science because they give humans great power. But as we know that power is not the true answer to life.

In a time when we have more things to make us happy, healthy and fullfilled more and more people are experiencing unhappiness and dispair. Maybe it is that this has to run its course before things will change. Reality has a way of coming back to remind us that we cannot mess with it.
I'm not sure if you consider the Bible to be an accurate and reliable record of Gods Word, or if you take it seriously and literally. But I have been studying it with a Church group, with two theologians in the group to help us. I started out, thinking the Bible was just a book to teach people morals and guide us to make wise choices so we could live a happy, healthy and prosperous life.

As we studied the Bible, I found it to be just as relevant in our time as it was 2000 years ago, I found the prophesies to be the most amazing as the vast majority have already come to pass exactly as they were foretold. So I'm sure the remaining 10% in the the last book of the bible (the book of revelation) will also come to pass jut like all the others did.

I found, the more we studied the Bible, the more convinced became that it is a reliable and true in every respect. The things that Jesus said would happen to the world, before He returns are far more scary than any Hollywood horror movie. He described His Angel opening the door of hell, and all the Demons coming out and tormenting people for four months.
He said hey will go after everyone who doesn't have the seal of God on their forehead, He said the Demons would inflict unimaginable pain on people and the people won't be able to die. They will try to kill themselves as the pain is unbearable, but death will be removed from them.

This torment will last a full four months, four months may not sound like a long time but it will seem like an eternity to those who are suffering excruciating pain 24/7 and unable to die. The Demons will have a sting like a Scorpion, only much worse. God apparently planned this as a form of punishment for rebellious sinners.

The rebellious sinners, are currently laughing at Christians and mocking God, thinking there is no coming judgement or punishment for sin. But according o the Bible, they are in for a horrific shock.
My neighbor told me he doesn't believe in God, because so many murderers and child killers get away with their crimes. He is a law enforcement officer, so he was referring to all the cold cases where decades go by and the families never have closure of justice.
I told him that God promised to punish everyone according to their deeds. but he argued that God is indifferent if He exists. He said the creator probably created everything and let it unravel as it will, without interfering.

I wasn't able to convince him to join my Bible study group, he kept on dismissing the Bible as an irrelevant old book. I believe some people are born with a gift to believe in God while others can never be convinced, no matter what we say or do.
 
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Zaha Torte

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And what's up with the polygamy thing among some (seeming) Mormons that my wife keeps seeing on TLC?
This is one of the reasons why we do not want to be referred to as "Mormon".

We are not affiliated with those or any other polygamists.

Why does your wife watch that stuff?
 
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2PhiloVoid

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This is one of the reasons why we do not want to be referred to as "Mormon".

We are not affiliated with those or any other polygamists.

Why does your wife watch that stuff?

... mostly because she likes watching it and finds it socially informative on some level (along with whatever various personal reasons she has for it), and for the fact that she married a philosopher/critical thinker who doesn't prevent her from doing so. :sorry:
 
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Zaha Torte

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... mostly because she likes watching it and finds it socially informative on some level (along with whatever various personal reasons she has for it), and for the fact that she married a philosopher/critical thinker who doesn't prevent her from doing so. :sorry:
I understand - your earlier comment made it seem like you disapproved of the practice.
 
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I understand - your earlier comment made it seem like you disapproved of the practice.

Ultimately, as you know, it's not whether or not I approve of it or anyone else approves of it. And I know that if I was merely left to myself and my own thoughts in this life, without recourse to a large number of insights about the world in which we live, polygamy and/or polyamory would look especially appealing, as they have to many men.

For the moment, it's good to know that you question these things as well.
 
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