Is anyone else a disaffected liberal? What is your story?

[bekkilyn]

PLEASE NOTE: I am creating this thread NOT for debate, but for discussion, and particularly for those who are or were on the left, but are not happy with the "woke" direction the left has taken, but who also may not be at the point of claiming to be on the right or conservative or perhaps have only recently "gone conservative" even if there are issues considered left that they still agree with.

What I'm interested in is stories. Did you leave the left? Did the left leave you? Are you still on the left and trying very hard to justify it? Are you disaffected meaning that you disagree with the left and can no longer support them even though you are still a liberal and why?

I was inspired for this thread by recently watching this clip of Dave Rubin in which he discusses a segment of a recent discussion between Bill Mahar and Ben Shapiro. I identify a lot with Dave's story because like me, he was progressive, a Bernie supporter, and holds a lot of similar views to mine.

Also for more clarification on what it may mean to be a "disaffected liberal" here is a discussion between Ben Shapiro and Tim Pool concerning Tim's story of what made him disaffected. He was very involved with Occupy Wall Street back in the day (another thing that held a lot of interest and excitement for me at the time.)

Now my own turning point more officially began when the trans-radicals attacked J.K. Rowling for simply making the claim that biology exists and I started looking into what was going on with that and it led me to a lot of questions and discoveries that were revealing, shocking, and even some that just made me angry because of how I felt lied to and duped and manipulated by a left that had in my view been entirely taken over by extreme radicals, not just on the subject that led me to become disaffected but concerning other issues and attitudes as well. I have come to the belief that the left has actually rejected liberalism for the most part.

Once again, this thread is meant for these stories and not for people to disagree and argue with the thoughts and experiences of those who may have them. In a sense, it is meant to be a sort of a "safe space" thread for disaffected liberals who don't really seem to fit in anywhere anymore even if liberal views that they've held practically all of their lives have not changed and may be in any of the political parties or unaffiliated with any of them.

(Also even though my own experience is based from the U.S. and so my words and perhaps some assumptions would be slanted in that direction, the thread is not meant to be limited to the U.S. because being a "disaffected liberal" is probably not just a U.S. phenomenon.)

 

[pescador]

I am a liberal and proud of it. Look at DJT and his minions, all of whom are enemies of the truth.

 

[RDKirk]

The position of being "this far but not that far" is not really a new one.

For instance, back in the 60s a black American could be totally for civil rights without being a black nationalist. Or one could strenuously object to the Vietnam War without joining the Weather Underground.

 

[pescador]

The position of being "this far but not that far" is not really a new one.

For instance, back in the 60s a black American could be totally for civil rights without being a black nationalist. Or one could strenuously object to the Vietnam War without joining the Weather Underground.

What are you talking about?

 

[DragonFox91]

The question isn't his individual views, the question is the country as a whole / elected officials / etc. beyond his satisfaction level.

What are you talking about?

I think he's saying people have always had extremist views.

 

[SamanthaAnastasia]

I’m a moderate independent.
I don’t like the “cringe woke”/“dirtbag” left but I also don’t like the alt-right/far-right (even in some libertarian groups).
I find both make my ears and eyes bleed (metaphorically speaking) after awhile.
Mostly because they don’t listen as much as hear. They don’t want to listen to anyone who has a different opinion than them.
Anyone that does not use the correct terms or does have a different opinion is automatically ostracized and labeled something or another. This happens in both groups.

What is ironic is both speak about thinking for yourself yet suffer the most from hive mind/group think pitfalls.
It’s unfortunate.
I literally get hated on from both my father (extremely conservative) who calls me a liberal and my husband (progressive left) who calls me a conservative (or sympathizer). It’s mind-boggling.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I am a liberal and proud of it. Look at DJT and his minions, all of whom are enemies of the truth.

Sir... I voted for Trump for logical and Biblical reasons. I am anti abortion most obviously as well as other reasons. Trump is not perfect, but he does not advocate murdering babies.
I am not a "minion" nor am I an "enemy of the truth."
Consider the Biblical commandment about lying. RE:"thou shall not bear false witness against your neighbor." One of the big 10. Also, things about God hating liars, causing division among the brethren , and liars being cast into the lake of fire.
Forget about political differences, consider the effect of your false accusations on innocent people, and the danger into which you place your soul when you break this commandment.
I pray for your soul. Especially on "that day" when you are questioned about saying these things.

 

[SamanthaAnastasia]

Sir... I voted for Trump for logical and Biblical reasons. I am anti abortion most obviously as well as other reasons. Trump is not perfect, but he does not advocate murdering babies.
I am not a "minion" nor am I an "enemy of the truth."
Consider the Biblical commandment about lying. RE:"thou shall not bear false witness against your neighbor." One of the big 10. Also, things about God hating liars, causing division among the brethren , and liars being cast into the lake of fire.
Forget about political differences, consider the effect of your false accusations on innocent people, and the danger into which you place your soul when you break this commandment.
I pray for your soul. Especially on "that day" when you are questioned about saying these things.

Anti-abortion yes.
But there are other things about the Republican Party that is not within the Christian morals.
Giving alms to the poor is one.
No political party truly represents Christian morals.
In one way or another they are severely lacking.
No matter who or what party we vote for, we should repent.
Remember that:
“My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now my kingdom is not from here.” (John 18:36)
and “our citizenship is in heaven, and it is from there that we are expecting a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,” (Philippians 3:20)
A better way to put this would be “reside in their respective countries, but only as sojourners. They take part in everything as citizens and put up with everything as foreigners. Every foreign land is their home, and every home a foreign land” (The Epistle to Diognetus, 5).

 

[mama2one]

don't know what I am politically

however, did think last Pres was horrible at his job
he didn't read briefs, he showed up late, spent too much time tweeting & golfing, and spent the last months trying to get re-elected instead of doing the job

not to mention the name calling, horrible rhetoric, his part in increasing violence in the country, and Jan 6
always ALL about him & boasting he was the best ever

btw, I no longer vote but husband does vote
he won't ever tell me his vote

 

[miamited]

Hi @bekkilyn

For me, the labels of 'left' and 'right' and 'liberal' and 'conservative', are rarely, if ever, universal to anyone's positional worldview. We all have different ideas and understandings of how we'd like for the world to work. But, there are several billion people in the world and over 300 million people just here in the U.S. So, being able to label any particular individual with any of the labels that so many like to use, just really doesn't seem to be a fair means of dividing us up.

I don't agree with most people in 'all' that they believe or understand. There are some individuals and specific issues that I might be in agreement with. But to then label that person as conservative just because we agree on one or two issues, and I think of myself as conservative, doesn't usually speak to all of the various and sundry ideas and issues and feelings and understandings of the world.

Look, I'm a young earth creationist. I believe that it is the most conservative and consistent belief of God's people since the beginning. The Jewish calendar, for crying out loud, is based on the earth having been created with Adam and Eve as the first two people to live upon it, some 5,782 years ago. That's a calendar that an entire nation of people are using. But again, it is not 'the' calendar that all of the Jewish people use. Are all those who don't agree with my understanding of the chronology laid out in the Scriptures, liberals???

There are people who care more about others. There are people who are more of the, "Hey, I've got mine. You've got to get your own". Are those who care and are concerned more about the well-being of others, liberal?? And those who feel like everyone has to stand on their own two feet and it's just too bad if they can't make it in the world, conservative??

So, the truth of your feelings is likely just that you've seen some people that you thought that you used to identify with as going further than you are able to go on some issue. Your post seems to make the point that you believed of yourself to once be liberal. But now they've gone too far and you can't be one of them anymore. Why can't you still be a liberal, just not as liberal as you see some others. I'm pretty conservative in my understanding of the Scriptures. I believe that God hates divorce. I believe that God calls men and women having sexual relations with others of their same sex detestable. I believe that God created all that there is in this realm of existence in 6, pretty much 24 hour days, just as we experience today.

But I've read the Scriptures!! I know that under the new covenant instructions to His people that He asks us to have mercy and understanding of those who are still in their sin. That God says that I was once just like them. Then Jesus says to treat others as we would like to be treated. So, am I right to hang a gay person or beat them up or verbally mistreat them? I don't think so. Does that make me liberal? Am I now on the 'left'? I believe that those who indulge in sexual relations with others of their own sex are in sin. But friend, sin only matters to those who know God. The world, in general, doesn't even acknowledge that there is sin.

So no, I'm not a disaffected liberal or a disaffected conservative. I've read the Scriptures and I see that overall the world is going exactly the way that God has warned His people that it will be going. There are some with whom I don't agree and there are some with whom I agree greatly. My agreement or disagreement with them doesn't make me 'left', 'right', 'liberal' or 'conservative'. It just means that I have a different worldview than they do in some things and a similar worldview in others.

God bless,
Ted

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Anti-abortion yes.
But there are other things about the Republican Party that is not within the Christian morals.
Giving alms to the poor is one.
No political party truly represents Christian morals.
In one way or another they are severely lacking.
No matter who or what party we vote for, we should repent.
Remember that:
“My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now my kingdom is not from here.” (John 18:36)
and “our citizenship is in heaven, and it is from there that we are expecting a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,” (Philippians 3:20)
A better way to put this would be “reside in their respective countries, but only as sojourners. They take part in everything as citizens and put up with everything as foreigners. Every foreign land is their home, and every home a foreign land” (The Epistle to Diognetus, 5).

I agree.
My family gives thousands to the poor.
Of course, no political group can be said to Godly. But if I have to choose, I will choose the one that is against the murder of 60 million babies. Someone said we hold our noses and pull the lever. If we do not stop this holocaust of the infants, as the blood of the millions cry out from the ground for justice, God will remove His protecting hand and nature will take its course on a bloody and unrepenting nation.
I am not defending republicans. I am defending the millions of Christians and even non-Christians who voted for Trump for good reasons. We are not mindless "minions" nor are we "all enemies of the truth" as the poster stated. That is the worst sort of political demagoguery.

 

[RDKirk]

Anti-abortion yes.
But there are other things about the Republican Party that is not within the Christian morals.
Giving alms to the poor is one.
No political party truly represents Christian morals.
In one way or another they are severely lacking.
No matter who or what party we vote for, we should repent.
Remember that:
“My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now my kingdom is not from here.” (John 18:36)
and “our citizenship is in heaven, and it is from there that we are expecting a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,” (Philippians 3:20)
A better way to put this would be “reside in their respective countries, but only as sojourners. They take part in everything as citizens and put up with everything as foreigners. Every foreign land is their home, and every home a foreign land” (The Epistle to Diognetus, 5).

Yes. See my signature.

 

[SamanthaAnastasia]

I agree.
My family gives thousands to the poor.
Of course, no political group can be said to Godly. But if I have to choose, I will choose the one that is against the murder of 60 million babies. Someone said we hold our noses and pull the lever. If we do not stop this holocaust of the infants, as the blood of the millions cry out from the ground for justice, God will remove His protecting hand and nature will take its course on a bloody and unrepenting nation.
I am not defending republicans. I am defending the millions of Christians and even non-Christians who voted for Trump for good reasons. We are not mindless "minions" nor are we "all enemies of the truth" as the poster stated. That is the worst sort of political demagoguery.

I vote for against every abortion law when I have a direct say.
But democrats give to the needy.
It’s much more nuanced than two political parties.
Washington and Adams were right: the two-party system is destroying the US.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Yes. See my signature.

Let me ask this. If it were possible to eliminate some great evil by simply choosing one ruler over another would you do it? Just pulling one lever over another. If you could have voted against Nero, Hitler, Pol Pot, or any of the other despots, would you have done it? Get more personal. If there was a candidate who wanted to kill your children and one that wanted to save them, what would you do?
God has made it that we have a part in this nation and choosing our leaders. We can choose between good and evil. Not perfect. Certainly not God's standard of holiness and righteousness, but we can at least try to hold back the flood of evil that is so often seen in human governments.
If Paul could have voted against Nero, Herod, and Caligula, what would he have done?
Ultimately my faith is in God. But I work to get food for my family. I do lay on the ground outside waiting for food to fall from the sky. The old "if a man will not work, he will not eat" proverb.
I suspect it is not unrealistic to say: "if a man can vote for good and against evil but refuses to do so, he will receive the fruit of his inaction." The whole "if good men do nothing, evil will succeed" thing. I am not saying forget God and His ultimate provision... of course not. I am "Word of Faith" and we teach "God has provided everything in the atonement." So I believe in God and His provision. But if God has given to us the power and authority to make a difference in this world, we should use it for good.

 

[stevil]

(Also even though my own experience is based from the U.S. and so my words and perhaps some assumptions would be slanted in that direction, the thread is not meant to be limited to the U.S. because being a "disaffected liberal" is probably not just a U.S. phenomenon.)

I've not really considered myself liberal or conservative.
In my country I have tended to vote for the politically right leaning party, but I have sometimes voted for the politically left leaning party.
I'm not idealistic either way, I'm more of a pragmatist, looking for some balance.
Socially I tend to be liberal, and value diversity, and independent thought.
Fiscally I tend to lean right and value encouragement of businesses to drive up employment opportunities.

 

[RDKirk]

Let me ask this. If it were possible to eliminate some great evil by simply choosing one ruler over another would you do it? Just pulling one lever over another. If you could have voted against Nero, Hitler, Pol Pot, or any of the other despots, would you have done it? Get more personal. If there was a candidate who wanted to kill your children and one that wanted to save them, what would you do?
God has made it that we have a part in this nation and choosing our leaders. We can choose between good and evil. Not perfect. Certainly not God's standard of holiness and righteousness, but we can at least try to hold back the flood of evil that is so often seen in human governments.
If Paul could have voted against Nero, Herod, and Caligula, what would he have done?
Ultimately my faith is in God. But I work to get food for my family. I do lay on the ground outside waiting for food to fall from the sky. The old "if a man will not work, he will not eat" proverb.
I suspect it is not unrealistic to say: "if a man can vote for good and against evil but refuses to do so, he will receive the fruit of his inaction." The whole "if good men do nothing, evil will succeed" thing. I am not saying forget God and His ultimate provision... of course not. I am "Word of Faith" and we teach "God has provided everything in the atonement." So I believe in God and His provision. But if God has given to us the power and authority to make a difference in this world, we should use it for good.

But there is no good earthly government.

So the choice is not between evil and good, but between two different flavors of evil.

And it might not have been God who set up a system by which people choose their own leaders. That might very well be a Diabolical way of deceiving people into thinking they can simply vote for a "good" government, such as they thought they could when they decided they needed a king like other nations.

 

[NBB]

Christianity has nothing to do with politics... except in the part where you can see if you believe in your bible which side supports more biblical morals. Things like lgbt stuff, and abortion and traditional family order etc.

God is not going to judge people for their economic or poiltical views, he only cares if we stop sinning or not in that regard.

 

[Occams Barber]

(Also even though my own experience is based from the U.S. and so my words and perhaps some assumptions would be slanted in that direction, the thread is not meant to be limited to the U.S. because being a "disaffected liberal" is probably not just a U.S. phenomenon.)

The term 'liberal' has a variety of meanings depending on your country and the particular 'lean' of its politics. I don't believe that the term 'disaffected liberal' can be usefully used as a meaningful cover-all term for both US and non-US politics.

As an example: Australia has a Liberal Party which is conservative and on the right of Australian politics. This 'liberal' party would fall on the left of the US political spectrum.

US terminology tends to be US specific. Another example is 'socialism' which has different connotations outside of the US.

OB

 

[seashale76]

PLEASE NOTE: I am creating this thread NOT for debate, but for discussion, and particularly for those who are or were on the left, but are not happy with the "woke" direction the left has taken, but who also may not be at the point of claiming to be on the right or conservative or perhaps have only recently "gone conservative" even if there are issues considered left that they still agree with.

What I'm interested in is stories. Did you leave the left? Did the left leave you? Are you still on the left and trying very hard to justify it? Are you disaffected meaning that you disagree with the left and can no longer support them even though you are still a liberal and why?

I was inspired for this thread by recently watching this clip of Dave Rubin in which he discusses a segment of a recent discussion between Bill Mahar and Ben Shapiro. I identify a lot with Dave's story because like me, he was progressive, a Bernie supporter, and holds a lot of similar views to mine.

Also for more clarification on what it may mean to be a "disaffected liberal" here is a discussion between Ben Shapiro and Tim Pool concerning Tim's story of what made him disaffected. He was very involved with Occupy Wall Street back in the day (another thing that held a lot of interest and excitement for me at the time.)

Now my own turning point more officially began when the trans-radicals attacked J.K. Rowling for simply making the claim that biology exists and I started looking into what was going on with that and it led me to a lot of questions and discoveries that were revealing, shocking, and even some that just made me angry because of how I felt lied to and duped and manipulated by a left that had in my view been entirely taken over by extreme radicals, not just on the subject that led me to become disaffected but concerning other issues and attitudes as well. I have come to the belief that the left has actually rejected liberalism for the most part.

Once again, this thread is meant for these stories and not for people to disagree and argue with the thoughts and experiences of those who may have them. In a sense, it is meant to be a sort of a "safe space" thread for disaffected liberals who don't really seem to fit in anywhere anymore even if liberal views that they've held practically all of their lives have not changed and may be in any of the political parties or unaffiliated with any of them.

(Also even though my own experience is based from the U.S. and so my words and perhaps some assumptions would be slanted in that direction, the thread is not meant to be limited to the U.S. because being a "disaffected liberal" is probably not just a U.S. phenomenon.)

I feel like I have zero political representation. I'm not a woke leftist. These people have hijacked liberalism. A blind man can see it. I'm not a far-right anything conservative either. I've always been a moderate centrist- but now anyone right of Marx is labelled a far-right white supremacist bigot these days (even those who aren't white apparently). I feel like the far-right and the far-left have been radicalized in the last few years and it is intentional. It's actually quite alarming.

 

[hedrick]

I’ve never thought of myself as being on the left. I was a Republican until the second time Obama ran. At this point though, I think moderate Democrats are more willing to follow evidence than the current Republican Party. I guess you’d consider me theologically liberal too. Because I tend to use Jesus as the touchstone for theology. That’s actually not so common within Christianity.