If sabbath was a creation ordinance...........

[Cribstyl]

Why did Jesus say tell the Pharisees; the reason you circumcise on the Sabbath is because circumcision was passed down from the fathers?

Jhn 7:22
Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers; and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.

Jhn 7:23
If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?


It seems clear to understand that Sabbath was not passed down from the fathers or Jesus would not have reference that circumcision was passed down. Jesus acknowledged that the reason that circumcision took precedence on the Sabbath is because it was passed down from the fathers before Moses.

Some try to distance the law of Moses from the law of God because arguments creates the confusion to ignore bible truth for a lie.

(Please keep this discussion about the scriptures proving Sabbath, circumcision and the law.)

 

[maco]

Why did Jesus say tell the Pharisees; the reason you circumcise on the Sabbath is because circumcision was passed down from the fathers?

Jhn 7:22
Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers; and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.

Jhn 7:23
If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?


It seems clear to understand that Sabbath was not passed down from the fathers or Jesus would not have reference that circumcision was passed down. Jesus acknowledged that the reason that circumcision took precedence on the Sabbath is because it was passed down from the fathers before Moses.

Some try to distance the law of Moses from the law of God because arguments creates the confusion to ignore bible truth for a lie.

(Please keep this discussion about the scriptures proving Sabbath, circumcision and the law.)

Jesus was showing them how they have lowered the value of human beings with their religious behavior. The seventh day of creation was created a blessed and holy day but it shouldn't take precedence over human needs. Taking the day off on the seventh day is not what makes the seventh day special, we take the day off in order to make the day special. The Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath.

 

[maco]

Why did Jesus say tell the Pharisees; the reason you circumcise on the Sabbath is because circumcision was passed down from the fathers?

Jhn 7:22
Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers; and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.

Jhn 7:23
If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?


It seems clear to understand that Sabbath was not passed down from the fathers or Jesus would not have reference that circumcision was passed down. Jesus acknowledged that the reason that circumcision took precedence on the Sabbath is because it was passed down from the fathers before Moses.

Some try to distance the law of Moses from the law of God because arguments creates the confusion to ignore bible truth for a lie.

(Please keep this discussion about the scriptures proving Sabbath, circumcision and the law.)

Jesus was showing them how they have lowered the value of human beings with their religious behavior. The seventh day of creation was created a blessed and holy day but it shouldn't take precedence over human needs. Taking the day off on the seventh day is not what makes the seventh day special, we take the day off in order to make the day special. The Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath.

 

[Cribstyl]

Jesus was showing them how they have lowered the value of human beings with their religious behavior. The seventh day of creation was created a blessed and holy day but it shouldn't take precedence over human needs. Taking the day off on the seventh day is not what makes the seventh day special, we take the day off in order to make the day special. The Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath.

Is that the best you can do? Now you're calling circumcision and Sabbath religious behavior. Later you'll say that salvation is dependent on keeping the Sabbath.

 

[from scratch]

Why did Jesus say tell the Pharisees; the reason you circumcise on the Sabbath is because circumcision was passed down from the fathers?

Jhn 7:22
Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers; and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.

Jhn 7:23
If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?


It seems clear to understand that Sabbath was not passed down from the fathers or Jesus would not have reference that circumcision was passed down. Jesus acknowledged that the reason that circumcision took precedence on the Sabbath is because it was passed down from the fathers before Moses.

Some try to distance the law of Moses from the law of God because arguments creates the confusion to ignore bible truth for a lie.

(Please keep this discussion about the scriptures proving Sabbath, circumcision and the law.)

Excellent point!

 

[maco]

Is that the best you can do? Now you're calling circumcision and Sabbath religious behavior. Later you'll say that salvation is dependent on keeping the Sabbath.

The seventh day is part of creation itself, circumcision came after creation as a result of sin. The seventh day was blessed and sanctified as part of creation. Even though the seventh day is blessed and sanctified it still does not take precedence over human needs. And yes, honoring the seventh day is part of salvation because it's the fruit of it.

 

[from scratch]

The seventh day is part of creation itself, circumcision came after creation as a result of sin. The seventh day was blessed and sanctified as part of creation. Even though the seventh day is blessed and sanctified it still does not take precedence over human needs. And yes, honoring the seventh day is part of salvation because it's the fruit of it.

Circumcision is a sign of a covenant and not a result of sin. All men aren't circumcised. They would be if it were a result of sin.

 

[from scratch]

Jesus was showing them how they have lowered the value of human beings with their religious behavior. The seventh day of creation was created a blessed and holy day but it shouldn't take precedence over human needs. Taking the day off on the seventh day is not what makes the seventh day special, we take the day off in order to make the day special. The Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath.

Circumcision isn't a human need.

 

[maco]

Circumcision is a sign of a covenant and not a result of sin. All men aren't circumcised. They would be if it were a result of sin.

The covenants are a result of sin.

 

[maco]

Circumcision isn't a human need.

Healing is.

 

[from scratch]

The covenants are a result of sin.

Please explain. I want to know also how circumcision is a result of sin. Circumcision is a sign of a covenant. If you say that circumcision is a result of sin, you must also say the Sabbath is a result of sin. Neither are true. Don't go to Gen 2 to prove the Sabbath is a creation ordinance. Genesis doesn't mention the Sabbath anywhere.

 

[from scratch]

Healing is.

Has nothing to do with either circumcision or sin.

 

[maco]

Please explain. I want to know also how circumcision is a result of sin. Circumcision is a sign of a covenant. If you say that circumcision is a result of sin, you must also say the Sabbath is a result of sin. Neither are true. Don't go to Gen 2 to prove the Sabbath is a creation ordinance. Genesis doesn't mention the Sabbath anywhere.

If you don't know or understand these thing you shouldn't be here trying to refute them. Salvation is a result of sin.

 

[maco]

Please explain. I want to know also how circumcision is a result of sin. Circumcision is a sign of a covenant. If you say that circumcision is a result of sin, you must also say the Sabbath is a result of sin. Neither are true. Don't go to Gen 2 to prove the Sabbath is a creation ordinance. Genesis doesn't mention the Sabbath anywhere.

If you don't know or understand these thing you shouldn't be here trying to refute them. Salvation is a result of sin. Even Jesus is a result of sin.

 

[from scratch]

If you don't know or understand these thing you shouldn't be here trying to refute them. Salvation is a result of sin.

Hey great side step (dodge). Now please respond to what I actually said. Salvation isn't a result of sin. Salvation is a deliverance form sin.

 

[from scratch]

If you don't know or understand these thing you shouldn't be here trying to refute them. Salvation is a result of sin. Even Jesus is a result of sin.

Dude you're a real hoot. My dad would say you're running at the mouth again, son.

 

[maco]

Hey great side step (dodge). Now please respond to what I actually said. Salvation isn't a result of sin. Salvation is a deliverance form sin.

This will be the last time that I respond to your questions.

Would there be a need for salvation if there was no sin? Would there be a need for Jesus if there was no sin? Would there be a need for the old and new covenants if there was no sin? Would there be a need for circumcision if there was no sin? Would there be a need for a bible if there was no sin? Was the seventh day blessed and sanctified as a result of sin or was it before sin? Was the seventh day of creation part of a creation that God called very good? Is sin ever called very good by God?

 

[from scratch]

This will be the last time that I respond to your questions.

Would there be a need for salvation if there was no sin? Would there be a need for Jesus if there was no sin? Would there be a need for the old and new covenants if there was no sin? Would there be a need for circumcision if there was no sin? Would there be a need fora bible if there was no sin? Was the seventh day blessed and sanctified as a result of sin or was it before sin? Was the seventh day of creation part of a creation that God called very good? Is sin ever called very good by God?

Death is the result of sin.

There is a need of salvation to deliver one from death. Otherwise there is no need.

Your argument is presenting straw men that already are on fire.

What did God bless on the 7th day of creation? Was it the Sabbath? Why doesn't the Bible say that?

I don't care if you don't respond to my posts. They will simply go unchallenged and stand as truth if you don't. Got ya!

 

[VictorC]

If you don't know or understand these thing you shouldn't be here trying to refute them. Salvation is a result of sin. Even Jesus is a result of sin.

I have never seen anyone describe Almighty God as the posterity of sin. Never.

 

[VictorC]

Why did Jesus say tell the Pharisees; the reason you circumcise on the Sabbath is because circumcision was passed down from the fathers?

Jhn 7:22
Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers; and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.

Jhn 7:23
If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?


It seems clear to understand that Sabbath was not passed down from the fathers or Jesus would not have reference that circumcision was passed down. Jesus acknowledged that the reason that circumcision took precedence on the Sabbath is because it was passed down from the fathers before Moses.

I just wanted to clarify my perception of John 7:22.
Moses therefore gave you circumcision (not that it is from Moses, but from the fathers), and you circumcise a man on the Sabbath.

Our translations indicate that this includes a parenthetical insertion by John when he wrote his account. The origin of circumcision is with God's covenant with Abraham, and John acknowledges this. If we remove his insertion from John 7:22, the verse is rendered this way:
Moses therefore gave you circumcision, and you circumcise a man on the Sabbath.

What Jesus said is true - the audience he addresses got the rite of circumcision from Moses, and Moses got it by direct verbal commandment according to Leviticus 12:1-3. This sets a precedent that ends dependence on a previous covenant when the same commandment is Spoken into a newer covenant.

However, this doesn't deter from your point. The rite of circumcision originates 430 years before the sabbath existed, and Jesus doesn't make any distinction between these two rites originating with Moses to the audience present. That too is true, as the sabbath has its origin through Moses about a month before God declared His covenant to the entire congregation at Horeb.