I hate Repent of your sins to be Saved. it is a false gospel, lie from the pit of hell

[Bible Highlighter]

Amen~

Our "works" do not grant us faith, we are granted free grace. Still, our works are the evidence of our faith, not the cause of it. God gives us the free gift of grace. Through that gift, we are granted faith and we know that faith without works is dead. Not because we didn't merit salvation but because our faith was a dead faith. God wants us to live in faith which we are granted with grace. But we must answer the call. We must to the best of our ability obey Christ's commandments, not just agree with them.

To be a Christian is to live as a Christian and we know we live as a Christian by our actions. When we are made Christian we don't prop up our faith with works, we are granted the ability to produce good fruit BECAUSE we have been granted the free gift of grace.

So I completely agree with the statement or yours that I quoted because it illustrates that faith is what we have been granted and works are the fruits of the grace and faith that we were given.

I hope I am making sense but it feels like I'm going around in circles.

If you are interested, I did a study on how faith can reflect itself in two different ways.

The Two Sides of the Coin of Faith

The Two Sides of the Coin of Faith: The 1st Side of the Coin of Faith: Faith starts off as a belief or trust in Jesus Christ as one's Savior (John 3:16). We are first saved by God's grace through faith without the deeds of the law or works ALONE (Ephesians 2:8-9). We are saved initially and...

www.christianforums.com

I hope it edifies.

Blessings to you in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Studyman]

Also notice it says for a burnt offering. Offering. I may offer you some chocolate, but you could refuse. In short, Abraham was to offer his son as an offering (that was a burnt offering) but it does not mean God really wanted Abraham to have his son sacrificed with a Knife and then burned.
Yes, it was a test of his faith to give up his son. God spoke in a way that could be understood in two different ways. But God never at any point desired Abraham to have his son actually killed.

In short, God was using clever wording to test Abraham’s faith.

LOL, God doesn't desire the death of anyone. You profess to know God, but you imply that God wasn't able to instruct Abraham in a way Abraham could understand. I would suggest to you, that it wasn't Abraham's job to Judge God's motives, or question God's clear instruction. Had Abraham adopted your thinking on the subject, I mean no offense, he wouldn't have gone through with it. He would have reasoned, like Eve was convinced to do, that God really didn't want Isaac dead and so Abraham would have told God, as "many" do, "I'm not going to follow that command". But Abraham didn't question God. And as a result of His Obedience, both Abraham and his son were blessed, even as it is to this day.

Gen. 26: 4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; 5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

I'm OK with that.

To believe your religious philosophy about this event, I would have to believe that Abraham's didn't understand God's instruction. And worse, God let Abraham believe a lie all the time HE was climbing the mountain with his knife and fire, because surely you believe God knows the minds of men. And worse than that, God let Abraham continue in this misunderstanding until just moments before the knife was ready to sacrifice the kid before stopping him. And even then, God didn't say to Abraham, "Hey, I didn't mean for you to actually stab him", so then in your religion, Abraham left believing the same misunderstanding even after the event.

And to believe your opinion on this event, I would have to believe Hebrews was also deceived about God's instruction to Abraham, and like Abraham didn't understand the instruction.

Heb. 11: 17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, 18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called: 19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, "even from the dead"; from whence also he received him in a figure. Which of course Abraham would have been thinking when he had the knife in his hands.

So I appreciate the discussion, and I hear you loud and clear, regarding your opinion of Abraham and his relationship with his God.

But it seems Abraham understood God's instruct perfectly, and denied himself, and his own son in honor and service to God. Even as Jesus also instructs.

Luke 14: 26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. Surely Abraham proved His Faith on the mountain that day.

 

[rturner76]

Jesus gave us the Parable of the Talents. If the fruit was automatic, this parable would not make any sense (See Matthew 25:14-30). It is telling us believers to be faithful (fruitful) and gives us the warning that the unprofitable servant will be cast into outer darkness. This warning applies to us. There are other such warnings in the Bible. John 15:1-6 would be another.

I hope this helps.

In any event, may God bless you.

I can't say that I disagree. May God also bless you!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

LOL, God doesn't desire the death of anyone.

Yes, I know God does not desire the death of anyone. As I am sure you know, the Lord is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9). However if you believe God told Abraham to sacrifice his son, then it runs contrary to that idea. It would mean God’s words did not match up with what He actually desires. In addition, it is problematic, because it means God went back on His Word. This is why I believe God used clever wording that meant one thing and Abraham understood it to mean something in a more extreme way. Abraham did offer his son Isaac but it was in the sense of taking it to a deeper point that went beyond what God actually desired. God did not want Abraham to actually kill Isaac. This is evident by what happened. God was testing Abraham’s faith to see if he would be willing to give up his son. Abraham thought God would simply resurrect Isaac. So Abraham thought one thing, and God thought another by the test.

You profess to know God,

There is no need to attack me and make it personal because we disagree on what the Bible says.
Keeping God’s commands is how one claim to know the Lord or not, and Abraham did keep God’s commands (although imperfect at times in his obedience). It was Abraham’s right heart in desiring to obey God that the Lord was looking for.

but you imply that God wasn't able to instruct Abraham in a way Abraham could understand.

Nowhere did I state that God was not capable of communicating to Abraham properly. I am saying God used clever wording with Abraham in such a way that did not reveal his true desires or intentions. God did not tell Abraham, ”Now Abraham, I want you to sacrifice your son, but I am not really asking you to do that because I am going to stop you at the last moment.”

I would suggest to you, that it wasn't Abraham's job to Judge God's motives, or question God's clear instruction. Had Abraham adopted your thinking on the subject, I mean no offense, he wouldn't have gone through with it. He would have reasoned, like Eve was convinced to do, that God really didn't want Isaac dead and so Abraham would have told God, as "many" do, "I'm not going to follow that command". But Abraham didn't question God. And as a result of His Obedience, both Abraham and his son were blessed, even as it is to this day.

First, I believe the story just fine. It is 100% true. On a surface reading it does appear like God was asking Abraham to sacrifice his son, but under deeper inspection, I believe God was using clever wording whereby God knew that Abraham would misunderstand His words slightly as a part of testing His faith and obedience to Him by offering up his son Isaac (Which was a type of the Father offering up His Son, Jesus Christ).

Second, I wouldn’t desire Abraham to judge God’s motives whereby it would have hindered him to obey. I believe Abraham acted in obedience but it was with an imperfect understanding. I say this because God did not tell Abraham that He was going to stop him from going through with the sacrifice. Again, the implications here is that God’s Word cannot be true. God did not really desire Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac. We know God stopped him and so for God to tell him to do this would be a contradiction to what God actually believes or desired of the outcome. It would not be true words. But if God was using clever wording as I mentioned, there is no problem.

Gen. 26: 4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; 5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

I'm OK with that.

Yes, I believe this verse just fine. I am okay with that verse, too.
But you are failing to understand that God does not pull back in what He says because everything God says is true and trustworthy.
Sometimes we do not always understand God’s wording and God is just looking to see if we obey even if it is not perfect.

To believe your religious philosophy about this event, I would have to believe that Abraham's didn't understand God's instruction. And worse, God let Abraham believe a lie all the time HE was climbing the mountain with his knife and fire, because surely you believe God knows the minds of men. And worse than that, God let Abraham continue in this misunderstanding until just moments before the knife was ready to sacrifice the kid before stopping him. And even then, God didn't say to Abraham, "Hey, I didn't mean for you to actually stab him", so then in your religion, Abraham left believing the same misunderstanding even after the event.

In your religion you believe God told Abraham to sacrifice his son but He went back on His Word. Meaning in your religion God‘s words are not trustworthy in what He was telling Abraham to actually do because He stopped Abraham and had no real desire to have Isaac killed to begin with.

As for men of God believing things that are false:
This happens all the time in the Bible. Peter and the others did not know what Jesus was talking about when He spoke of His resurrection. Granted, they believed His words, and they followed Jesus even when they did not fully understand. Jesus gave the disciples the great commission to go to all nations and to teach his commands, but they were thinking that Jesus meant the Jews in different nations. It was only revealed later to Peter by a vision and God sending him to Cornelius that he understood that the Gentiles would be included in this great commission. But before, Peter and the others no doubt had a heart of obedience in desiring to obey God (although they acted with imperfect knowledge believing something that was not revealed to them yet). God is not obligated to reveal all truth right away. A believer having imperfect knowledge and making the wrong conclusions falls on the person and not God. We are not perfect, but God is.

And to believe your opinion on this event, I would have to believe Hebrews was also deceived about God's instruction to Abraham, and like Abraham didn't understand the instruction.

Heb. 11: 17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, 18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called: 19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, "even from the dead"; from whence also he received him in a figure. Which of course Abraham would have been thinking when he had the knife in his hands.

Yes, I have been aware of this verse for many years ago. It’s nothing new for me. I believe God was aware of Abraham’s thoughts on the matter, but God never intended Abraham to actually kill Isaac, but Abraham was not let in on the full details of God’s plan on the matter. But for God’s words to be true and not a lie or God going back on His Word, we must realize God was using clever word play that from a different point of view God was not actually telling Abraham to kill his son because if He was, then Isaac would be dead. When God says for us to do something, God is not looking to later stop us. That would be like, God saying, love your neighbor, and then when you try to do so, every time God stops you when you make such attempts. That wouldn’t make any sense. God’s words and what He says or commands will come to pass.

So I appreciate the discussion, and I hear you loud and clear, regarding your opinion of Abraham and his relationship with his God.

But it seems Abraham understood God's instruct perfectly, and denied himself, and his own son in honor and service to God. Even as Jesus also instructs.

Luke 14: 26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. Surely Abraham proved His Faith on the mountain that day.

Yes, we do have to be willing to forsake family or things for the Lord, but this obviously would not mean we do not provide for our own. 1 Timothy 5:8 says if any man does not provide for his own, he has denied the faith and is worse than an infidel (Unbeliever). So there is a balance here. Forsaking family does not mean not loving ever. It just means that God comes first. But yes, we have to be willing to pick up our cross, deny ourselves, and follow Jesus. This is a call for every believer. We are not to love this world or the things that are within it. We should do all things to the glory of the Lord Jesus Christ (Who is God).

In any event, we do not have to agree on the point about God asking Abraham to offer his son. We both believe Scripture is true in this story. We both believe the events are real and God’s Words are true. It is our interpretation of God’s Word where we disagree. Could I be wrong? Sure, but it sets up all kinds of problems that needs to be resolved.

 

[Studyman]

Yes, I know God does not desire the death of anyone. As I am sure you know, the Lord is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9). However if you believe God told Abraham to sacrifice his son, then it runs contrary to that idea.

This story is an example of trials of Faith. You are missing the point HL. And this because you have reasoned in your own mind that God and Abraham's relationship was one of misunderstanding. Abraham may not have understood "WHY" God gave the commandment, but to teach others that he didn't understand the commandment is simply not true, according to the Scriptures. Consider the difference between Abraham and Eve. After all, she also reasoning in her own mind that the tree was good for food, and able to make her wise, surely God's Intent is that she be wise, and eat of the fruit of the garden. The deceiver even promoted this religious philosophy. "For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, (Transgress the commandment) then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."

And so she judged God's intent, instead of simply doing what HE instructed because HE is God, and she isn't. God placed the serpent in the garden. Is this not the same God that is not willing that "any" should perish, that commanded Abraham to offer up his son as a burnt sacrifice? Will you say then that God's placing the serpent in the garden was contrary to God's Word?

Abraham is an example of actual Faith in my view. He knew what the command was, he wasn't stupid. God knew Abraham understood what the command was. How do I know this? Because HE is God. Even the Hebrew's Author understood exactly the same as Abrahm and I.

The point being missed, that is certainly there, is that it isn't the job or duty of a Son to judge the intent of His Father, or a servant to judge the intent of his master, or the created its Creator. As it is written over and over and over and over in scriptures, it is the duty of man in this world, to Obey God, not judge Him or His Commands.

Ecc. 12: 13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, 18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called: 19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

God's purpose was that Abraham obey Him, not judge Him. To believe Him enough to obey Him, or as Jesus and Paul teach, become a "Doer" of His Law, not a hearer only, or a "Servant of God's righteousness", not a child of disobedience.

We too, have been given Commandments, Judgments and Statutes of God in which we fully understand the Command, but not always the reason "WHY" the Command was given. Why not just trust God and Obey Him, like Jesus did?

It would mean God’s words did not match up with what He actually desires.

Could it be God's desire that Abraham not place anything before HIM, even his own son?

In addition, it is problematic, because it means God went back on His Word.

You promote this teaching HL. But for me and the Hebrews Author, we know God is perfect and understand, as did Abraham, that God is perfectly capable of raising a human person HE gave life to in the first place, from the dead, to fulfill His Promises. And Spiritually speaking, in Abraham's mind, God did raise Isaac from the dead, when he stopped Abraham's hand. Because Abraham obeyed God and killed his son as a sacrifice to God in his heart.

So it is simply untrue that God's command to Abraham, was God going back on His Word. God's Promises to Abraham would have been fulfilled whether God stopped his hand or not. Again, religious men have been judging God and His intent, and His Judgments and Commandments since Adam and Eve. For me, the lesson is clear. Jew doesn't matter, Gentile doesn't matter, but as Paul teaches, what matters is "Keeping the Commandments of God". And I am being blessed by these Holy Scriptures, "Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws."

Not blessed because Abraham misunderstood God. Where is it written "Abraham misunderstood God and it was accounted unto him as righteousness"?

This is why I believe God used clever wording that meant one thing and Abraham understood it to mean something in a more extreme way. Abraham did offer his son Isaac but it was in the sense of taking it to a deeper point that went beyond what God actually desired. God did not want Abraham to actually kill Isaac. This is evident by what happened. God was testing Abraham’s faith to see if he would be willing to give up his son. Abraham thought God would simply resurrect Isaac. So Abraham thought one thing, and God thought another by the test.

Abraham thought God wanted him to sacrifice his son to God. Abraham sacrificed his son to God. God blessed Abraham, "Because" he sacrificed his son to God. "And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou "hast not" withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

And his obedience, AKA "Faith", has been exalted by God, and HIS Son for many Centuries. I appreciate your reply, but your insistence that Abraham and God's relationship was one of misunderstanding demeans Abraham's obedience/faith and belittles God in my view.

We will continue to disagree I suppose. Because I am not going to believe that God and Abraham's relationship was one of confusion and misunderstanding. And it seems you have been convinced by someone that it was.

Nevertheless, these discussions are great for men to have in this evil world surrounded by "Many" deceivers who come in Christ's Name.

Thank you for the discussion.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

This story is an example of trials of Faith. You are missing the point HL.

Does "HL" stand for "Highlighter" in relation to my username?

And this because you have reasoned in your own mind that God and Abraham's relationship was one of misunderstanding. Abraham may not have understood "WHY" God gave the commandment, but to teach others that he didn't understand the commandment is simply not true, according to the Scriptures. Consider the difference between Abraham and Eve. After all, she also reasoning in her own mind that the tree was good for food, and able to make her wise, surely God's Intent is that she be wise, and eat of the fruit of the garden. The deceiver even promoted this religious philosophy. "For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, (Transgress the commandment) then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."

And so she judged God's intent, instead of simply doing what HE instructed because HE is God, and she isn't.

Bringing up the story of God's command, Eve, and the serpent is totally unrelated. I am not questioning God's motives. You think I am doing that, but nothing could be further from the truth.

First, I believe Abraham obeyed God and was correct for obeying him (albeit not perfectly or with the same understanding God had of the actual outcome). If Abraham had the correct understanding, he would have simply offered Isaac upon the altar with the wood for a burning sacrifice and waited for God to take Isaac's life.

Again, I believe God told Abraham to offer or give up his son. This is in the same vein as sacrificing one's son (albeit more extreme). God desired Abraham to show his total allegiance to him, wherein he was willing to give up his son. But we know God did not really want Isaac dead because He stopped Abraham. So why would God tell Abraham to do something God did not want Him to do? We know the end of the story. God did not intend any actual harm towards Isaac, which should give you a big clue as to God's true intentions all along (even when He gave the command to Abraham).

Second, do you believe God can change His Word?
I believe God can, but there have to be previous conditions that He lays out in His Word that would explain this.
For example, God told Jonah that Judgment was coming to the city of Nineveh in 40 days. However, this did not happen because they repented. The Bible explains this exception.

Are you aware of the story of the Canaanite woman who basically did not take no for an answer from Jesus?
She could have packed her bags and gone home if she had not been aware of another truth about God. She told Jesus that even the dogs eat the crumbs from the table. This illustrates that not everything appears so straightforward at first glance. Most Christians today would have packed their bags and gone home with their tails stuck between their legs. They would mindlessly say, "Hey, Jesus said it, and that's it!" "Don't talk back to the Lord!" "Turn your brain off!"

God placed the serpent in the garden. Is this not the same God that is not willing that "any" should perish, that commanded Abraham to offer up his son as a burnt sacrifice? Will you say then that God's placing the serpent in the garden was contrary to God's Word?

God does not tempt anyone. Every man is drawn away and enticed by his own lusts (See: James 1:13-14).

Abraham is an example of actual Faith in my view.

Yes, for me, too.

God knew Abraham understood what the command was. How do I know this? Because HE is God.

Abraham had misunderstood God's instructions before.

For example, Abraham wrongfully sought to conceive a child with his servant, Hagar, instead of conceiving a child with Sarah due to doubts about Sarah's ability to bear a child at her advanced age.

Abraham's actions were adultery. Later, God clarified to Abraham that Sarah would indeed be the mother of his son, Isaac, through whom God would establish His covenant.

17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, 18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called: 19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

Yes, in Abraham's misunderstanding, it typified Christ's death and resurrection.
The same is true with the disciples and the two swords. Jesus was numbered with the transgressors, but He did not intend for His disciples to fight. Jesus rebuked Peter for taking up his sword. Jesus undid the damage to Malchus' ear (Which Peter chopped off with his sword).

Yes, Abraham obeyed God in offering up his son. This is what God was ultimately looking for.

God's purpose was that Abraham obey Him, not judge Him. To believe Him enough to obey Him, or as Jesus and Paul teach, become a "Doer" of His Law, not a hearer only, or a "Servant of God's righteousness", not a child of disobedience.

Mindless obedience can be dangerous. If a person believed God told them to wipe out the entire human race with nuclear bombs, would this person be correct? If a person believed God desired a person to abuse children, would that be correct? No, of course not! God gives us common sense and a moral compass.

We too, have been given Commandments, Judgments and Statutes of God in which we fully understand the Command, but not always the reason "WHY" the Command was given. Why not just trust God and Obey Him, like Jesus did?

See again the story of the Canaanite woman.
Paul asked God to take away his thorn in his flesh three times.

So it is simply untrue that God's command to Abraham, was God going back on His Word. God's Promises to Abraham would have been fulfilled whether God stopped his hand or not.

No, that is not what I believe. I do not believe God went back on His Word.
I believe that is the contradiction you must face in your belief system on what happened.
Most Christians also believe God told Hosea to marry a prostitute, too. Again, they believe this way because they read Modern Bibles, listen to Modern scholars, etc. They did not think to check their moral compass on such matters.

Again, religious men have been judging God and His intent, and His Judgments and Commandments since Adam and Eve. For me, the lesson is clear. Jew doesn't matter, Gentile doesn't matter, but as Paul teaches, what matters is "Keeping the Commandments of God". And I am being blessed by these Holy Scriptures, "Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws."

I believe Christians have to keep the New Testament commands or they are not going to make it into God's Kingdom. I also believe Abraham obeyed God.

Not blessed because Abraham misunderstood God. Where is it written "Abraham misunderstood God and it was accounted unto him as righteousness"?

Abraham was blessed in his obedience to God (albeit it was not perfect obedience in the sense of him having perfect knowledge on the matter, but it was obedience nonetheless).

Abraham thought God wanted him to sacrifice his son to God. Abraham sacrificed his son to God. God blessed Abraham, "Because" he sacrificed his son to God. "And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou "hast not" withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

No. Abraham did not sacrifice his son to God. He was attempting to sacrifice his son to God, but the Lord stopped him. I believe God was merely looking for Abraham to offer his son (i.e., give him up for God to sacrifice his son). But it was not a detail that God was concerned with (at least, it is not revealed in the Bible anyway). God was pleased with the obedience Abraham had (albeit imperfect obedience).

And his obedience, AKA "Faith", has been exalted by God, and HIS Son for many Centuries. I appreciate your reply, but your insistence that Abraham and God's relationship was one of misunderstanding demeans Abraham's obedience/faith and belittles God in my view.

Yes, and I see Christians believing the standard cookie-cutter explanation of this biblical narrative as a belittlement of God because it makes it look like God changed His Word without any biblical warrant to do so. In my view, there is no such problem because I have properly understood the words involved. But we can agree to disagree.

We will continue to disagree I suppose. Because I am not going to believe that God and Abraham's relationship was one of confusion and misunderstanding. And it seems you have been convinced by someone that it was.

Again, Abraham previously misinterpreted God's message. This is not a new thing.

Nevertheless, these discussions are great for men to have in this evil world surrounded by "Many" deceivers who come in Christ's Name.

"Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?" (Galatians 4:16).

Thank you for the discussion.

May the Lord Jesus bless you and your family.

 

[T.i.m.o.t.h.y.]

these people say "repent of your sins to be saved" no you repent of your sins buddy, the sin of a false gospel being preached. being a false prophet is the worst sin there is it's this wicked works salvation garbage that people want to add works to salvation.

On my first reading of your OP title and the severity of your words I was so focused on that, that it obscured for me what you were saying, so my replies and what I thought of your statements were reflecting that, sorry. And all others I read in response also misunderstood too. But in reading your OP again, now I see what you're saying.

I had heard along these lines before some time ago. It's good to get a refresher concerning it.

Because of Jesus crucifixion on the cross, in intercession for us, He took our place, and therefore He is our repentance for sins providing reconciliation so we don't have to repent of our sins in coming to Him, but to accept that grace abounding to us and by faith be saved.

Rms 4:5-8 "To one who does not work but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness apart from works (under the law). Blessed are those whose deeds have been forgiven (by Christ's crucifixion on the cross in our behalf), and whose sins have been covered (canceled). Blessed are those whose sin the Lord will not take into account."​

Jn.6:37 "Anyone who comes to Him, He will in no wise cast out." because He does not count our sins against us. What sins is there to repent of?​

According to these words and other verses, repenting of sin is a work of the law which we under grace do not have to do in order to be saved.
Why need we mention what the blood of Jesus wiped out of existence by His shed blood?

Colossians 2:13-14 "When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions. And having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us and which was hostile to us; Jesus has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross."​

Roms.5:8 "God demonstrates His great love toward us that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us."​

Isa.53:4 "He was wounded for our transgressions, and bruised for our iniquities, He was chastised for our peace (with God).."​

We have peace with God through our Savior and Lord Jesus Christ, not through our repentance. If the sinner is made to think that they have to repent for their sins it's because we Christians haven't fully understood the immensity of God's grace that the sinner doesn't need to, because the sins are already under the blood of Jesus.

Are we to resurrect those sins buried when we do not have the power to forever eliminate them on our own? The old testament law proved that sins could only be temporarily dealt with, but then we'd be remembering them against us again, but only under God's provisional final sacrifice of His Son Jesus can they be completely wiped away. No longer existent.

If we insist on repenting then we dishonor His blood and Jesus' sacrificial work for us on the cross.
Jesus really did everything for us, there is nothing for the approaching sinner to say but "Thank You for forgiving all my sins, Yes, I receive You Jesus as my Savior-Redeemer and my Lord."

So being "..delivered out of darkness and translated into the kingdom of God's dear Son in whom is forgiveness and redemption of all sins." Col.1:13-14.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Not a requirement for salvation or eternal life. and no the phrase "repent of your sins" is not there

well just repenting ( changing your mind about the way your going, repenting toward God is not the end result. We are commanded to preach repentance and remission of sins and to repent and believe the gospel. repentance always comes first. It is not a works salvation. But if a man is not humble and repentant of his way and a broken spirit God will not come into that heart. Godly sorrow worketh repentance unto salvation. Which is in the belief part through faith. Christ dwells in our heart by faith.

But here are some interesting verses to consider.

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.” (Luke 13:5 KJV)

“For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.” (2 Corinthians 7:10 KJV)

“Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.” (Acts 8:22 KJV)

“Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.” (Luke 17:3)

so first is repentance then belief. And if a man truly believes he will bring forth meet worthy of repentance and the fruit of the tree is know as he walk in the Spirit .

“Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.”" ( Luke 3:8 KJV)

“Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;” (Acts 3:18 KJV)

 

[rturner76]

Is this one of those "Graca Alone" things? I mean why should we repent? We don't need to I guess because if we pay lip service to Christ we can continue in our sin and have no need to be sorry about it to change our ways. Is this another one of those 'You just have to tell God you are Christian but you don't have to actually BE a Christian" threads?

 

[Cockcrow]

Is this one of those "Graca Alone" things? I mean why should we repent? We don't need to I guess because if we pay lip service to Christ we can continue in our sin and have no need to be sorry about it to change our ways. Is this another one of those 'You just have to tell God you are Christian but you don't have to actually BE a Christian" threads?

Repent means a change of mind. God repented 39 times, Paul repented of writing the letter to the corinthians. Judas repented and went to hell, so no, repent does not mean of your sins. If you had to repent of your sins to be saved then nobodies saved because we're all sinners. Even the thought of foolishness is sin, to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.


Without salvation by grace through faith, then nobody would go to heaven. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation. 100% Jesus, 0% us.

Should we repent of sins and clean up the life stop drinking smoking fornication? yes but that's not salvation, unsaved people do that everyday, unsaved people do good works go to church get water baptized and they're not even saved, or they are atheist and just went to alcoholics anonymous.

We serve God because we love him and to avoid chastisement, and earn eternal rewards, not because if we don't do such and such good work or stop such and such sin then we would lose our salvation.

 

[Danthemailman]

JulieB67 said: Repentance means to think differently.

The Greek word for "repent" is "metanoia" (noun) and "matanoeo" (verb) you see as defined in the Strongs #3340, 3341: to think differently or afterwards, reconsider. To change one's mind.

https://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Lexicon.show/ID/G3340/metanoeo.htm#:~:text=Strong's #3340: metanoeo (pronounced met-an-o-eh'-o) from 3326 and,i.e. reconsider (morally, feel compunction):--repent. Thayer's Greek Lexicon:

Repentance basically means a "change of mind" and the context must determine what is involved in this change of mind. Where salvation is in view, repentance actually precedes saving faith in Christ and is not a totally separate act from faith. It is actually the same coin with two sides. Repentance is on one side (what you change your mind about) and faith in Christ is on the positive side, the new direction of this change of mind. Repentance and faith are two sides of the same experience of receiving Christ through faith. (Acts 20:21)

Certain people misunderstand the term "repentance" to mean "turning from sin" to the extreme which means from that moment on we live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life, 100% of the time, yet repent does not mean sinless perfection. The word "repent" basically means to "change your mind."

The Bible also tells us that true repentance will result in a change of actions. Acts 26:20 declares, "I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds." This is the fruit of repentance (Matthew 3:8), not the essence of repentance (change of mind). I have heard certain people say, "if you want to be saved, repent of your sins, turn from your sins." Now if turning from your sins means to completely stop sinning, then people can only be saved if they completely stop sinning and, in that case, none of us will be saved because none of us are sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, 100% of the time. (1 John 1:8-10) Only Jesus Christ was. (Hebrews 4:15; 1 Peter 2:22; 1 John 3:5)

We will always fall short and sin but the difference is we are thinking differently and have changed our minds about living a sinful life. No one that has truly come to repentance will want to continue to sin willfully. That's the natural state of a Christian. They will at least want to try and put the spirit above the flesh. If one continues to walk in darkness, the truth is not in them.

All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. (Romans 3:23) In 1 John 3:9, we read - No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (NASB 1995) The Amplified Bible reads - No one who is born of God [deliberately, knowingly, and habitually] practices sin, because God’s seed [His principle of life, the essence of His righteous character] remains [permanently] in him [who is born again—who is reborn from above—spiritually transformed, renewed, and set apart for His purpose]; and he [who is born again] cannot habitually [live a life characterized by] sin, because he is born of God and longs to please Him.

Christ paid the price for one and all time so anyone can boldly go to the throne. But that's not a license to sin. And we are still to go to the throne and confess sin-

I John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

Notice that - "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:9) is in contrast to - If we say that we have no sin, (present tense) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (1 John 1:8) and - If we say that we have not sinned, (past tense) we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (1 John 1:10)

Certain folks seem to misunderstand verse 9 to mean that we "must confess each and every sin that we commit as we commit them" (keep a specific inventory of every sin) as an "additional requirement" to "remain cleansed" and "if we forget a sin, we are toast!" Who could actually write an exhaustive list of every sin they have ever committed or ever will commit? Sin is not only missing the mark by what we do but also what we fail to do. (James 4:17)

Believers "confess" (Greek - homologeó) speak the same/acknowledge/agree with God's perspective about their sins and have a settled recognition and ongoing acknowledgment that one is a sinner in need of cleansing and forgiveness in contrast with saying that we have no sin or that we have not sinned. (1 John 1:8-10)

Romans 3:25 "Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;"

Romans 3:25 (AMP) - whom God displayed publicly [before the eyes of the world] as a [life-giving] sacrifice of atonement and reconciliation (propitiation) by His blood [to be received] through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness [which demands punishment for sin], because in His forbearance [His deliberate restraint] He passed over the sins previously committed [before Jesus’ crucifixion].

This sheds some light on what is meant by PAST sins. It does not mean that ONLY our past sins are forgiven by Jesus.

And only someone who walks in the light will have their sins washed away. I John 1:6 "If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:" I John 1:7 "But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin

1 John 1:6 - If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. *Walking in darkness is descriptive of children of the devil. *Walking in the light is descriptive of children of God. *Only those who are saved/believers are in the light.

Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.

2 Corinthians 6:14 - Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?

Ephesians 5:8 - for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light. Children of the devil walk in darkness, not in the light. Children of God walk in the light, not in darkness. IF confirms these positions in verses 6 and 7. It's one or the other.

In 1 John 2:9, we read - He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. In verse 11 - But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

*Compare with 1 John 3:10 - In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, (compare with 1 John 1:6 - does not practice the truth) nor is he who does not love his brother. *Notice that walks in darkness/hates his brother is connected with children of the devil.

 

[Danthemailman]

Cockcrow said: Repent means a change of mind. God repented 39 times

I don't believe that God repents (changes His mind) in the full sense of the word in which man repents. Numbers 23:19 - God is not a man, that He should lie, nor a son of man, that He should repent; Has He said, and will He not do it? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?

When speaking of God repenting, other translations say "relent." Jeremiah 26:13 (for example) reads - Now then, reform your ways and your deeds and obey the voice of the Lord your God; and the Lord will relent of the disaster which He has pronounced against you.

Although God knows what will happen before it does (He is omniscient) He reacts to us. When the situation changes, He changes His actions and His responses to us accordingly.

Without salvation by grace through faith, then nobody would go to heaven. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation. 100% Jesus, 0% us.

Amen! Jesus Christ receives 100% credit for our salvation and either we are trusting 100% in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation or else we are 100% lost. (Romans 3:24-28; 4:5-6; 5:1-2; Ephesians 2:8,9 etc..).

Should we repent of sins and clean up the life stop drinking smoking fornication? yes but that's not salvation, unsaved people do that everyday, unsaved people do good works go to church get water baptized and they're not even saved, or they are atheist and just went to alcoholics anonymous.

Moral self-reformation is not a substitute for regeneration.

We serve God because we love him and to avoid chastisement, and earn eternal rewards, not because if we don't do such and such good work or stop such and such sin then we would lose our salvation.

We love because God first loved us. (1 John 4:19) The love of God has been poured out within the hearts of believers through the Holy Spirit who was given to us. (Romans 5:5) Salvation is not probation.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

But, they could have been saved at one time and the Word has been choked out of them as we see Jesus speaking of in Mark 4:13-20

were they really saved then? I mean are we saved (rescued) or are we not?

Some do actually get born again but they backslide by taking off the new man and put the old man back on and go back to living in sin. There is no such thing as once saved always saved sin mankind is free to reject the Lord and turn away from Him.

But did not John say a man of God can not sin? Did John get it wrong?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes, that's possible as well.


I believe this as well. We see that many he will turn away at the end.



Good example.

is it possible though?

Can eternal life stop being eternal? Can Jesus promise ever stop?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Salvation is not all works (Works Alone), and neither is it all grace (with no works).
People are confused on this topic because they do not understand that there are two aspects of salvation for the believer.

Romans 4:4

Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

Romans 11:6

And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

2 Timothy 1:9
who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,

 

[Eternally Grateful]

as for the OP.

Before we are saved

1. We are Gods enemy
2. We want nothing to do with God
3. We do not think we are guilty
4. We do not acknowledge we have sinned against God
5. We think we will get to heaven on our own merit.

To repent is to change our view on all of these things, Repenting of certain individual sins will not help us get saved. We repent of our unbelief of our Guilt. and acknowledge our guilt

Jesus said in John 3, He who believes is not condemned, He who does not believe is condemned already

There is your repentance. to repent from the state of unbelief and come to a state of faith in Christ.

 

[lincoy3304]

The only things we need to do to be saved are the following, in no particular order:
1. Accept the New Covenant. (You did nothing, but Christ did everything for you).
2. Radically depend on Christ and forever worship Him for His incredible grace.
3. Recognize that under the New Covenant, you have to live in faith every second. "For everything that does not proceed from faith is sin."
4. Live in faith in Christ.
5. Somewhere along the way, you have to recognize that you are horribly unworthy of anything Christ did for you. This step may properly be put as turning from recognizing the Old Covenant to recognizing the New Covenant.
God Bless!

 

[JulieB67]

is it possible though?

Can eternal life stop being eternal? Can Jesus promise ever stop?

The eternity does not start until after Judgement Day.

And if someone has truly fallen away from Christ never to return, they have failed.The promise is always there.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The eternity does not start until after Judgement Day.

Eternity future your right

But eternal life started the moment you were saved

And if someone has truly fallen away from Christ never to return, they have failed.The promise is always there.

That means Christ failed.

His promise is they will never die, He will raise them, He will never let them go.

If someone falls from Christ, Christ failed them, and failed to keep them from falling.

 

[rturner76]

Repent means a change of mind. God repented 39 times, Paul repented of writing the letter to the corinthians. Judas repented and went to hell, so no, repent does not mean of your sins. If you had to repent of your sins to be saved then nobodies saved because we're all sinners. Even the thought of foolishness is sin, to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

Wow, have you ever actually read the New Testament? Repentance is called for over and over and over. Do you ignore Jesus' words for Paul's sake? That would make you a Paulian and not so much a Christian (not accusing you of not being a Christian but schooling you an the importance of repentance).

Should we repent of sins and clean up the life stop drinking smoking fornication? yes but that's not salvation, unsaved people do that everyday, unsaved people do good works go to church get water baptized and they're not even saved, or they are atheist and just went to alcoholics anonymous.

What are you talking about? Do you have any idea what AA actually teaches In the 12-step program?

1. Admitting powerlessness over the addiction
2. Believing that a higher power (in whatever form) can help
3. Deciding to turn control over to the higher power
4. Taking a personal inventory
5. Admitting to the higher power, oneself, and another person the wrongs done
6. Being ready to have the higher power correct any shortcomings in one’s character
7. Asking the higher power to remove those shortcomings
8. Making a list of wrongs done to others and being willing to make amends for those wrongs
9. Contacting those who have been hurt, unless doing so would harm the person
10. Continuing to take personal inventory and admitting when one is wrong
11. Seeking enlightenment and connection with the higher power via prayer and meditation
12. Carrying the message of the 12 Steps to others in need

Chexk out steps 7, 8, and 10, it's all about repentance. Where did you learn about Christianity? Did you know that AA used the same steps as the Oxfprd Group? That was a Christian organization and AA extended to consider agnostics by believing in a Higher Power. Is not Jesus Christ and the Triune God a Higher Power?

We serve God because we love him and to avoid chastisement, and earn eternal rewards, not because if we don't do such and such good work or stop such and such sin then we would lose our salvation.

So you serve him by saying you are not sorry for your sinful life and that you feel no need to change your ways? What kind of Christianity are you practicing? I am pretty sure you have completely and totally misinterpreted St Paul's writings.