How many people could land support?

[Waymarker]

I'm a townie having lived in cities all my life but have a strong interest in how we'd survive in a post-apocalypse world decimated by plague or asteroid strike or whatever.
We'd have to get out of the city of course to grow our own food and do hunting and fishing, so as a matter of interest how big a survivor group could places like these feed?-

(The red is a barbed wire coils security perimeter round the farmhouse)

 

[d taylor]

*​

Not sure how many that will feed, but if you wait till the disaster happens. You are about 2+ years too late.

 

[Torah Keeper]

I'm off grid, but not nearly as self-sufficient as say, old order Amish.

Homesteaders had 20 acre lots, at least. This could feed about 10 people, using a similar setup as you show. An orchard would provide the most food per acre, while ranching provides the least. Although ranching or shepherding is a good option in dry or infertile land where farming may not be an option.

To have a decent quality of life, it really takes a community, at least a village. You can theoretically survive on as little as 2 acres, but your life will be miserable if all trade is cut off. Imagine getting all your food, clothing, materials, everything, only from your own property. I have over 5 acres and it would provide a lot more food and materials that I need, if it was properly developed. But it also will not provide an enormous amount of things I may need. That's why natives travel so much. Tribal peoples can migrate many miles every year, to get the resources they need. Being landlocked is sort of like being marooned on a tiny island, but without the sea.

Another thing is heat in winter. For a tiny home, 5 acres of hardwood forest is needed to supply firewood sustainably. Less than that and you will run out.

So, ideally, the more land you have, the better. But owning it may not mean anything, post-apocalypse. Having 1 acre next to a national forest is probably better than 20 acres in a suburb of a mega metropolis.

Hopefully you will have a peaceful community and a trade network post-apocalypse.

In a post-apocalyptic scenario peaceful people will basically be hunter-gatherers and ruin explorers. I expect small farms will almost immediately be raided for food, repeatedly. Starving people are going to do whatever to survive, especially with no cops around. You could try hiding your food, I guess.

You could either build a bomb shelter and fortify it like a castle, hoping your defense will hold against frequent gangs, or, hide in the wild hoping no one will find you.

Another option that rich people do is the secret house. You basically look like you're dirt poor. So thieves leave you alone. But under your pathetic-looking abode is a secret mini-mansion. Think of an ugly tin shack with a luxurious basement accessed by a secret door.

 

[Michael S. Blanchard]

I'm off grid, but not nearly as self-sufficient as say, old order Amish.

Homesteaders had 20 acre lots, at least. This could feed about 10 people, using a similar setup as you show. An orchard would provide the most food per acre, while ranching provides the least. Although ranching or shepherding is a good option in dry or infertile land where farming may not be an option.

To have a decent quality of life, it really takes a community, at least a village. You can theoretically survive on as little as 2 acres, but your life will be miserable if all trade is cut off. Imagine getting all your food, clothing, materials, everything, only from your own property. I have over 5 acres and it would provide a lot more food and materials that I need, if it was properly developed. But it also will not provide an enormous amount of things I may need. That's why natives travel so much. Tribal peoples can migrate many miles every year, to get the resources they need. Being landlocked is sort of like being marooned on a tiny island, but without the sea.

Another thing is heat in winter. For a tiny home, 5 acres of hardwood forest is needed to supply firewood sustainably. Less than that and you will run out.

So, ideally, the more land you have, the better. But owning it may not mean anything, post-apocalypse. Having 1 acre next to a national forest is probably better than 20 acres in a suburb of a mega metropolis.

Hopefully you will have a peaceful community and a trade network post-apocalypse.

In a post-apocalyptic scenario peaceful people will basically be hunter-gatherers and ruin explorers. I expect small farms will almost immediately be raided for food, repeatedly. Starving people are going to do whatever to survive, especially with no cops around. You could try hiding your food, I guess.

You could either build a bomb shelter and fortify it like a castle, hoping your defense will hold against frequent gangs, or, hide in the wild hoping no one will find you.

Another option that rich people do is the secret house. You basically look like you're dirt poor. So thieves leave you alone. But under your pathetic-looking abode is a secret mini-mansion. Think of an ugly tin shack with a luxurious basement accessed by a secret door.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

If I recall, the early issues of Mother Earth News had many such studies on how much land you would need to support a family. If I recall, it was not encouraging. The issue seemed to be that the more land you have the more people you need to work it. Never could work it out. The only way to work it was to increase the ratio of animals to feed/vegetables. A pond with fish also helped. It seemed like you would always need another source of workers or food to make it work. I am assuming in a post stuff-hits-the-fan scenario, the only source of other goods would be via bartering.
We resolved that the only workable scenario would be a communal type arraignment where many families worked together to achieve self-sufficiency on a communal basis. Currently my oldest son has purchased 20 acres. The family would go there and share our preps while we worked up the land to where we could achieve self-sufficiency. We are looking at 20 people in 5 families. We currently have enough preps for about 2 years. We have done a lot of work preparing the land so we would not start from scratch. Chickens and Rabbits may be our best bet to beat the ratio. As always, we assume the worst.
Yes, we have quite a few weapons between us. And I hate that we may need them.
Good thread. Thanks.

 

[Michael S. Blanchard]

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Not sure how many that will feed, but if you wait till the disaster happens. You are about 2+ years too late.

The "type" of disaster and the scope of ''it" would determine your plan of action. Lets just assume that the disaster would involve sanctions and shipping/supply cut-off. People in metro areas would suffer. People off the grid would have to give what they had to people who needed it. To die for Christ is the greatest honor that you can achieve. It's human nature to want to survive. Faith is the hardest, in a God that we should trust in, more than our intelligence tells us we can win over our fears of what is going to come. Just die for Jesus, hopefully, I can, and you can too.

 

[Michael S. Blanchard]

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Not sure how many that will feed, but if you wait till the disaster happens. You are about 2+ years too late.

I'm kinda thinking that Genesis-1-16 says. that He made the stars. that about covers it.

 

[d taylor]

I'm kinda thinking that Genesis-1-16 says. that He made the stars. that about covers it.

Not sure exactly what you are addressing. God made the stars yes.

 

[disciple Clint]

I'm a townie having lived in cities all my life but have a strong interest in how we'd survive in a post-apocalypse world decimated by plague or asteroid strike or whatever.
We'd have to get out of the city of course to grow our own food and do hunting and fishing, so as a matter of interest how big a survivor group could places like these feed?-

(The red is a barbed wire coils security perimeter round the farmhouse)

Not many if the people do not know how to farm, hunt, or fish because the only place they have ever gone for food was the store.

 

[Waymarker]

Not many if the people do not know how to farm, hunt, or fish because the only place they have ever gone for food was the store.

Ideally a post-apoc survival group would have people with various skills and gifts, for example here's a pic I've photoshopped and been posting in survival forums, it's a fictitious big country house which I melodramatically call "Doomsday Hall" where we base ourselves after something has wiped out 99% of the world's population..
"We have different gifts, according to the grace given to each of us. If your gift is prophesying, then prophesy in accordance with your faith; if it is serving, then serve; if it is teaching, then teach; if it is to encourage, then give encouragement; if it is giving, then give generously; if it is to lead, do it diligently; if it is to show mercy, do it cheerfully" (Romans 12:6-8)
"..each of you has your own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that" (1 Corinthians 7:7)

What do CF members think about the place, and what would be a good maximum number of people the area could support?
(note the security perimeter of coiled barbed wire around the Hall)

 

[Waymarker]

Not sure how many that will feed, but if you wait till the disaster happens. You are about 2+ years too late.​

Depends what type of disaster it is, but if it's a rampant virus our best bet is to get out of town with whatever food we can carry to tide us over til we can get organised..

Clip from Survivors 1975-

​

 

[Waymarker]

Starving people are going to do whatever to survive, especially with no cops around. You could try hiding your food, I guess.
You could either build a bomb shelter and fortify it like a castle, hoping your defense will hold against frequent gangs, or, hide in the wild hoping no one will find you..

Speaking of castles, Doomsday Hall would be the next best thing, so let's load our van with tinned food and other stuff and head on out there, all aboard..

 

[Waymarker]

..Yes, we have quite a few weapons between us. And I hate that we may need them..

A man's gotta do..

In 'Panic in Year Zero' after a nuclear holocaust, mild-mannered family man Ray Milland goes into 'survival mode'-

 

[Torah Keeper]

Ideally a post-apoc survival group would have people with various skills and gifts, for example here's a pic I've photoshopped and been posting in survival forums, it's a fictitious big country house which I melodramatically call "Doomsday Hall" where we base ourselves after something has wiped out 99% of the world's population..
"We have different gifts, according to the grace given to each of us. If your gift is prophesying, then prophesy in accordance with your faith; if it is serving, then serve; if it is teaching, then teach; if it is to encourage, then give encouragement; if it is giving, then give generously; if it is to lead, do it diligently; if it is to show mercy, do it cheerfully" (Romans 12:6-8)
"..each of you has your own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that" (1 Corinthians 7:7)

What do CF members think about the place, and what would be a good maximum number of people the area could support?
(note the security perimeter of coiled barbed wire around the Hall)

Depends how far out in the sea you want to fish. 1,000 people maybe? You could have a small town going with that much space. Being by the sea and a river would almost guarantee a trade network so you'd have plenty of supplies coming and going. Barter systems work ok if the main items are things everyone needs. A bushel of apples for a bucket of fish. A pound of salt for a pound of flour. Things like that. Not like an old collection of '80s cassettes for a gun. I don't think many people would trade that.

 

[disciple Clint]

Ideally a post-apoc survival group would have people with various skills and gifts, for example here's a pic I've photoshopped and been posting in survival forums, it's a fictitious big country house which I melodramatically call "Doomsday Hall" where we base ourselves after something has wiped out 99% of the world's population..
"We have different gifts, according to the grace given to each of us. If your gift is prophesying, then prophesy in accordance with your faith; if it is serving, then serve; if it is teaching, then teach; if it is to encourage, then give encouragement; if it is giving, then give generously; if it is to lead, do it diligently; if it is to show mercy, do it cheerfully" (Romans 12:6-8)
"..each of you has your own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that" (1 Corinthians 7:7)

What do CF members think about the place, and what would be a good maximum number of people the area could support?
(note the security perimeter of coiled barbed wire around the Hall)

I think they tried that back in the 60's, they called themselves hippies and talked a lot about love and other such things.

 

[Waymarker]

I think they tried that back in the 60's, they called themselves hippies and talked a lot about love and other such things.

Yes I looked into "Alternative Communities" in the 1970's/80's with a view to joining one but sadly none appealed to me for various reasons so I dropped the idea.

 

[Waymarker]

What’s your budget for the land and house? Older structures usually aren’t energy efficient and require updating. There’s a lot of them in Europe. Securing land with the infrastructure in place is best. You can build the house.

Sadly in a plague-ravaged bleak post apocalyptic world with 99% of the population dead, beggars can't be choosers, so we'll have to take whatever abandoned properties we can find.
For example this group in Survivors 1975 have moved into an old church-

 

[disciple Clint]

Sadly in a plague-ravaged bleak post apocalyptic world with 99% of the population dead, beggars can't be choosers, so we'll have to take whatever abandoned properties we can find.
For example this group in Survivors 1975 have moved into an old church-

That guy looks like as been real busy helping to provide food.

 

[tturt]

May want to have Plan b and c in place. We've been in 3 disasters. The last one lasted almost a month. One result was experienced linemen commented about how many deer were on the ground and it took years for them to come back.

 

[Waymarker]

That guy looks like as been real busy helping to provide food.

It's early days yet after the apocalypse and Greg and the others are living on tinned grub.
Later they move into a 'Doomsday Hall' and begin getting organised, here Greg's teaching the kids how to fish-