History of the Anabaptist and Baptist

[GreenEyedLady]

Hey, I thought it would be a good idea if we posted a thread about the history about the Baptist and Anabaptist. I have been told that we are NOT protestants and never came out of the Luther break.
Please post all the accurate history that you can find!
Thanks
GEL

 

[BBAS 64]

Hey, I thought it would be a good idea if we posted a thread about the history about the Baptist and Anabaptist. I have been told that we are NOT protestants and never came out of the Luther break.
Please post all the accurate history that you can find!
Thanks
GEL

Good Day, GEL

Hard question as to the historical account of the Anti-Baptist. Some with in the Baptist world see the roots of Baptist form the donatist and some other early sects " trail of Blood". People like Spurgen see the the Baptist as a post reformation.

I am some what in the middle, I think the early Anti- Baptists contributed to the reformation in the from of ideas, may be not directly.

I could be all wet, but that is what I understand.

Bill

 

[sunshinejennii]

ok! ive been brought up at a baptist church and count myself as a baptist but in my mind it's really very similar to other protestant denominations. well at least around here it is! so im very interested to follow this topic!

 

[P_G]

Blessings one and all from the Mennonite side of the camp!

Fear not of what men may call you - Protestant - Baptist - Mennonite - Christian - Anabaptist.

You know what at one time they were ALL derogatory names! Insults slung by those who didn't like what was happening.

I am a follower of Christ Jesus "the way" as it was known in the first century!

Here is a WONDERFUL link to the history of the Anabaptists
http://www.bibleviews.com/

What I would like to find out and explore is how the German Anabaptists are related to our American counsins in the Baptist church. Also I would love to hear about the nuances of the various sub divisions of the Baptist church I find it fascinating. If you will share where you are from and tell about it like Southern Baptist or Missionary Baptist I think that would be VERY COOL to learn about. And I will tell you about Mennonites if you like.

First thing to know about Mennonites or at least this Mennonite regardless how much I joke about it I don't really own a buggy or a kerosene operated computer!


Bless you all and no matter what men call you - If you call Jesus Lord and Savior
then you are my brother or my sister and I love you!

Blessings

Pastor George

 

[RED that's ME]

I really need to get and read it but my mom has a book THE BAPTIST HERITAGE Four Centuries of Baptist Witness written by H. Leon McBeth.

It's a 850 page book that starts with the History of the Baptist Beginnings, what Baptist believes, how Baptists effected different countries, the struggles and splits made within the Baptist faith.

 

[Cright]

Hi all...

I don't really claim any denomination right now. I'm fresh out of catholism (grew up that way and only have been to a Catholic church for holidays in the last 2 years, but just in the last several months have I realised I'm not Catholic, and am researching (at super speed) different denominations. I have been attending a "bible church" that follows mainly a Baptist doctrine. So my beliefs (as far as I know so far) are closer to Baptist than any other doctrine.

Now to get back on thread! hehe

Most recently I have been on a self-guided study tour of the reformation. Starting w/ Wycliffe, Hus, Luther and then leading to The Swiss Reformation w/ Zwingli and Calvin.

Next in my study is The Radical Reformation: The Anabaptists! Yeah!
Back "in the day" Anabaptists were horrible, bad people who "Re-baptised" (which is what Anabaptist means) others. Some were killed by being tied up and thrown into the lake.. for they "had sinned by water, so they should die by water".
The Anabaptists took comfort in the passage Matt 5:10-12 "Blessed are you when men cast insults against you, and persecute you , and say all kinds of evil against you falsely, on accounto fMe. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you."

I pulled out my study guide and found this short Anabaptists Chronology:

1523 - Second Zurich Disputation Radical followers break with Zqingli
1525 - First believer's baptism in Zurich
First Anapaptist congregation of 35 converts established in Zollikon
Arrest and first imprisionment of Anabaptists in Zurich
Bolt Eberle executed - 1st Protestant and Anabaptist martyr
1527 - Schleitheim Brotherly UNion
Felix Manz drowned in Xurich
Sattler burned in Rottenburg
Hans Hut dies in Augsburg prison
1528 - Hubmaier burned in Vienna
1529 - Tyrolean Anabaptists flee to Moravia
1533 - Hutter joins Moravians, beginning the Huttierites
1534-1535 - Munster Rebellion - attempt to set up Kingdom of God
1536 - John Leyden, "King" at Munster executed
1536 - Menno Simons becomes Anabaptist leader in Netherlands

The above time line is from material copywrited from the Christian History Institute in "Leader's Guide: Reformation Overview".

Once I actually have studied this stuff (will be a couple weeks before I have finnished) I'll come back and post whatever info I find. (within reason, considering the depth that I'll be researching )

 

[ZeroTX]

Hi there,

I think we're in a similar position. I'm not coming from Catholicism, but I'm attending a non-denom. church that is very similar to Baptist... I'm actually dating a Catholic, and we have a serious problem with our two faiths... They don't mix.

Was there a "key point" that made you leave Catholicism? I can list dozens of reasons I'd never be one, and some of them go very deep... She's at an empasse in her faith as well, but all she has ever known is Catholicism, and I don't want to be the buttocks head who's trying to take her away from "her church" ... *sigh*

Thanks guys.

-Michael

Hi all...

I don't really claim any denomination right now. I'm fresh out of catholism (grew up that way and only have been to a Catholic church for holidays in the last 2 years, but just in the last several months have I realised I'm not Catholic, and am researching (at super speed) different denominations. I have been attending a "bible church" that follows mainly a Baptist doctrine. So my beliefs (as far as I know so far) are closer to Baptist than any other doctrine.

Now to get back on thread! hehe

Most recently I have been on a self-guided study tour of the reformation. Starting w/ Wycliffe, Hus, Luther and then leading to The Swiss Reformation w/ Zwingli and Calvin.

Next in my study is The Radical Reformation: The Anabaptists! Yeah!
Back "in the day" Anabaptists were horrible, bad people who "Re-baptised" (which is what Anabaptist means) others. Some were killed by being tied up and thrown into the lake.. for they "had sinned by water, so they should die by water".
The Anabaptists took comfort in the passage Matt 5:10-12 "Blessed are you when men cast insults against you, and persecute you , and say all kinds of evil against you falsely, on accounto fMe. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you."

I pulled out my study guide and found this short Anabaptists Chronology:

1523 - Second Zurich Disputation Radical followers break with Zqingli
1525 - First believer's baptism in Zurich
First Anapaptist congregation of 35 converts established in Zollikon
Arrest and first imprisionment of Anabaptists in Zurich
Bolt Eberle executed - 1st Protestant and Anabaptist martyr
1527 - Schleitheim Brotherly UNion
Felix Manz drowned in Xurich
Sattler burned in Rottenburg
Hans Hut dies in Augsburg prison
1528 - Hubmaier burned in Vienna
1529 - Tyrolean Anabaptists flee to Moravia
1533 - Hutter joins Moravians, beginning the Huttierites
1534-1535 - Munster Rebellion - attempt to set up Kingdom of God
1536 - John Leyden, "King" at Munster executed
1536 - Menno Simons becomes Anabaptist leader in Netherlands

The above time line is from material copywrited from the Christian History Institute in "Leader's Guide: Reformation Overview".

Once I actually have studied this stuff (will be a couple weeks before I have finnished) I'll come back and post whatever info I find. (within reason, considering the depth that I'll be researching )

 

[kayanne]

Hi all...

I don't really claim any denomination right now. I'm fresh out of catholism (grew up that way and only have been to a Catholic church for holidays in the last 2 years, but just in the last several months have I realised I'm not Catholic, and am researching (at super speed) different denominations. I have been attending a "bible church" that follows mainly a Baptist doctrine.

Cright, would you be willing to post in another thread about why you left the catholic church? I have lots of questions, but don't want to get way off topic on this thread. So I'm going to start another thread, with some questions and my reasons for asking.

 

[Cright]

Cright, would you be willing to post in another thread about why you left the catholic church? I have lots of questions, but don't want to get way off topic on this thread. So I'm going to start another thread, with some questions and my reasons for asking.

I saw you started another thread.. I will be more than happy to answer there. I do agree we should stay on topic of this thread of Bapitists and Anabaptists!

Thanks for starting the new one.

C

 

[jenptcfan]

I have a question...

I noticed that people have grouped Baptists and Anabaptists together as people who "rebaptize"....what exactly does that mean?

In the thread where people were giving suggestions about which denominations should be together in a forum, this was brought up.

I realize that rebaptize must mean "baptize again", but as a Baptist, the only time I've seen someone baptized more than once is if they were Baptized before they were actually saved the first time, or if they were baptized by sprinkling in the past(converted from another denomination), then we'll baptize again by immersion. Is that all it means?

 

[Cright]

I have a question...

I noticed that people have grouped Baptists and Anabaptists together as people who "rebaptize"....what exactly does that mean?

In the thread where people were giving suggestions about which denominations should be together in a forum, this was brought up.

I realize that rebaptize must mean "baptize again", but as a Baptist, the only time I've seen someone baptized more than once is if they were Baptized before they were actually saved the first time, or if they were baptized by sprinkling in the past(converted from another denomination), then we'll baptize again by immersion. Is that all it means?

I am just got to the video section of this in my reformation study last night after work.

What happended is that after Luther tried to "reform" the catholic church and instead was excommunicated. The people that followed Luther were called Protestants (protestors), or the more friendly term Lutherans.

Over in Switzerland there was another reform happening, the "swiss reformation" lead by Zwingli and Calvin... that's where you get Calvinists from.

There was another group forming called the Anabaptists (re-baptisers). It was started by an ex-monk and his wife. They left the monostery (sp?) and started their own church. They believed many of the things that Luther and other reformers did... but there were a couple things they focused on. One was the seperation of Church and State. But the most contravercial idea these "radical" people had was the idea that infant baptism should not be done. Even Luther accepted infant baptism.
The Catholic and other Protestant churches said that the anabaptists were sinners. Because you are only to have one baptism, that they should not re-baptise. The anabaptists said they were not baptizing.. that if you didn't concent to baptism in the first place, then you wern't baptised. That these followers were truly being baptised for the first time.

This of course caused a HUGE contaversy, especially since the Catholics (i'm not sure about the protestants) believed baptism saves. If they wern't baptised they they wern't saved is how they felt.. so this ment that anabaptists were heritics (sp?).

Many of the first anabaptists met in secret. If they were found out they were persecuted. Many were tied up and dround in a river, because "they sinned by water, so they should die by water".

So to answer you question... Anabaptist is the word given to those who baptised those that were already baptised as infants in the Catholic church.
They called themselves Baptists, because they believed it was the 1st real baptism because they were being baptised by their own will to proclaim that they would follow Christ, as he cammanded.

All of the above is the short un-detailed version of the story. I'll try to look for more detailed info I can direct you toward. I found a reformation history kit in my church library.. that's where most of my info is from.

God Bless,
C

 

[Cright]

To address the other main idea that the anabaptists were hated for is sepration of church and state. I'm going to try to show you (like the video showed me) that baptism has something to do w/ church and state.

how I undersand it is this...

The emperor/king of an area ruled the area, which was ruled also by the Church. The church and state were close buddies. Lutherans were accepted as a church the ruler of a region would give choose which church would rule in his area. Depending on where you lived you either were baptized as a Luthren or as a Catholic.

As the Anabaptists saw it, you should not be baptised until you profess that you accept and want to follow Christ. That you should not be forced to be a member of the church, or a supporter, or belong to a church.

The Catholic church after the plague and losing 1/3 of it's members (and population in general) as well as having issues with popes (3 at a time all claiming they were pope) and other things... this was hard for Catholics because they were financially struggleing and would loose support.
It wasn't great for the Luthren's because they were a new (if accepted) church.

That's just the very basic version, but I found it interesting that baptism plays into seperation of church and state.

 

[jenptcfan]

Thanks for the responses about rebaptism. That helps clear some things up!

 

[GreenEyedLady]

I have a textbook that I am reading from about the history of the baptist churchs. At the very beginning it states that there are 4 differant ways of looking at baptist history.

1. Some believe Baptists vame from Elglish Separation (Baptist came from the Sepratisit movement. It claims the earliest church was 1609 in Amsterdam, with John Smythe as pastor. However there is evidence that Baptist were in England and Europe much earlier. Hisotians that believe this theroy include : William Whitsitt, Robert Tobert, Winthrop Hudson, William McLouglin and Robert Baker.
2. Some belive Baptist came from the Amabaptist of Europe. This was the movement in the 16th centruy which would mean that we are just another Protestantism branch. Very few baptist help tpo this expalination of Baptist orgins. reps include AC Underwood and William Estep.
3. Succession of the Baptist Churches- This viewpoint suggests that the Baptist churches existed in an unbroken chain sine the time of Christ and John the Baptist. This is commenly refered to as the Landmarkism of Trail of Blood theroy, this means that they belive that those churches which stood outside the influence of the RCC at variuos times in church history. They were not technically named "bapist" Reps with this view point are James Graves, D B Ray, J M Carroll, G H Orchard, J M Cramp, and S H Ford.
4. Continuation of Biblical Teachings _ this group of Baptist historians belive tha Baptist faith and practice have existed since the time of Christ. This veiw has a large number if adherants, including a number of early Baptist historians. Some are Thomas Crosby ( the earliest historain who wrote in the 1700's) A H Newman, David Benedict and William Cathcart.

Which one do you agree with? I think scripture and history points to number 3 and 4.
I am just starting this lesson and I will be posting continually as I learn so that it might be shared with others.

One thing I would ask others who might have a huge head start on me. How did Baptist come to hold the name of the Lords Day( Resurrection Day) as Easter? That is a pagan influence even though many churches might not practice the holiday, I am curious to when exactly they started calling it Easter. Being that the early churches were murdered by the pagans I would think that it would be protested throughout history never to use this name. Any Baptist imput would be greatly appricated!
GEL

 

[prodromos]

One thing I would ask others who might have a huge head start on me. How did Baptist come to hold the name of the Lords Day( Resurrection Day) as Easter? That is a pagan influence even though many churches might not practice the holiday, I am curious to when exactly they started calling it Easter. Being that the early churches were murdered by the pagans I would think that it would be protested throughout history never to use this name. Any Baptist imput would be greatly appricated!

Sorry I'm not a Baptist

When doing a bit of research a while ago, I found that Ostern/Easter may in fact be derived from "erstehen", which is the old Teutonic form of "auferstehen/auferstehung" meaning "resurrection". This day is only called "Easter" in the Germanic group of languages. Just about every other language calls it "Pascha" or something similiar which is derived from the Hebrew word for "Passover".

God bless,

John.

 

[Frankie]

I am just got to the video section of this in my reformation study last night after work.

What happended is that after Luther tried to "reform" the catholic church and instead was excommunicated. The people that followed Luther were called Protestants (protestors), or the more friendly term Lutherans.

Over in Switzerland there was another reform happening, the "swiss reformation" lead by Zwingli and Calvin... that's where you get Calvinists from.

There was another group forming called the Anabaptists (re-baptisers). It was started by an ex-monk and his wife. They left the monostery (sp?) and started their own church. They believed many of the things that Luther and other reformers did... but there were a couple things they focused on. One was the seperation of Church and State. But the most contravercial idea these "radical" people had was the idea that infant baptism should not be done. Even Luther accepted infant baptism.
The Catholic and other Protestant churches said that the anabaptists were sinners. Because you are only to have one baptism, that they should not re-baptise. The anabaptists said they were not baptizing.. that if you didn't concent to baptism in the first place, then you wern't baptised. That these followers were truly being baptised for the first time.

This of course caused a HUGE contaversy, especially since the Catholics (i'm not sure about the protestants) believed baptism saves. If they wern't baptised they they wern't saved is how they felt.. so this ment that anabaptists were heritics (sp?).

Many of the first anabaptists met in secret. If they were found out they were persecuted. Many were tied up and dround in a river, because "they sinned by water, so they should die by water".

So to answer you question... Anabaptist is the word given to those who baptised those that were already baptised as infants in the Catholic church.
They called themselves Baptists, because they believed it was the 1st real baptism because they were being baptised by their own will to proclaim that they would follow Christ, as he cammanded.

All of the above is the short un-detailed version of the story. I'll try to look for more detailed info I can direct you toward. I found a reformation history kit in my church library.. that's where most of my info is from.

God Bless,
C

Well, this is news to me. I didn't even know that monks had wives.

Looks like I have a lot to learn.

Frankie

 

[prodromos]

Well, this is news to me. I didn't even know that monks had wives.

They don't, ... as long as they remain monks

Martin Luther was also a monk who later broke his monastic vows and married a former nun.

John.

 

[sunshinejennii]

OOOO in which case im an anabaptist!!! the things you learn!!

 

[kayanne]

I'm not sure if this is exactly the right place to ask this, but here goes. I was surprised when this forum was split up several days ago, that Baptists and Anabaptists were put together. Well, actually, when I first read it I didn't even know what Anabaptists were, but as I started reading and found that it refers to Mennonites/Amish (right?) then I thought "Boy, I didn't know Baptists had much in common with them, as far as denominations go."

Then I read in someone's post somewhere (sorry, I forget where) that Anabaptists are pretty Arminian in their beliefs. Baptists are Calvinistic, so how did this big difference come about, or why are we considered similar, in light of the huge Arminian/Calvinism differences?

FWIW, although my church is "sort of" Baptist (independent Bible, closely alligned with General Assoc of Regular Baptists), it's some of the Calvinism teachings (the TULIP) that I find myself most disagreeing with. I think I am more Armenian, yet I really enjoy my church (the TULIP stuff isn't really brought up much, but I think many people at my church, pastor included, do believe in at least some of the 5 points)

 

[seebs]

I don't think all Baptists, or all Anabaptists, agree on the Calvinism debate; in particular, many Baptists are not Calvinists. That's one of the cool things abouta church that gives a lot of personal freedom...