Healthspan, lifespan, exercise - Jordan Peterson, Peter Attia

[trophy33]

 

[timewerx]

These guys are practically saying the fundamental obstacle to fixing the national health crisis is our system of money.

At least that proves they really know their stuff and not blind-sided by too narrow-minded perspective in analyzing the health problems of their respective countries.

 

[trophy33]

These guys are practically saying the fundamental obstacle to fixing the national health crisis is our system of money.

At least that proves they really know their stuff and not blind-sided by too narrow-minded perspective in analyzing the health problems of their respective countries.

Well, they were, indeed, talking mainly about their perspective as Americans. But I posted the video mainly for their factual information about health, exercise etc.

 

[timewerx]

Well, they were, indeed, talking mainly about their perspective as Americans. But I posted the video mainly for their factual information about health, exercise etc.

They discussed how VERY important exercise is to the health and the massive improvement that comes with exercise compared to no exercise.

Then they began talking about the problems why many don't exercise. I suppose is also a very important angle to look at considering the massive benefits of exercise.

One of the problems they discussed why people don't exercise is lack of time and the lack of time is mainly due to work / jobs. People working extra long hours to pay for the high cost of living. And the high cost of living they blame to the horrible economic efficiency of the country. Tons of money wasted in programs that deliver poor value for the money.

I agree with them. It's difficult to find motivation to exercise if you work long hours. I found, that exercising enough hours to matter can negatively impact your work performance IF you work long hours. This is very crucial for people who are desperately counting on the hours to make ends meet.

And they started talking about "Universal Basic Income" and even incentivizing exercise. People receiving compensation/money simply for exercising. Which may sound absurd at first but considering the staggering monetary losses in curing sick people and the lost productive time....It may actually start making sense to pay people who are making an effort in disease prevention like exercising.

If people can make money simply by exercising, then they can spend less time working, freeing up time for exercise.

 

[trophy33]

They discussed how VERY important exercise is to the health and the massive improvement that comes with exercise compared to no exercise.

Then they began talking about the problems why many don't exercise. I suppose is also a very important angle to look at considering the massive benefits of exercise.

One of the problems they discussed why people don't exercise is lack of time and the lack of time is mainly due to work / jobs. People working extra long hours to pay for the high cost of living. And the high cost of living they blame to the horrible economic efficiency of the country. Tons of money wasted in programs that deliver poor value for the money.

I agree with them. It's difficult to find motivation to exercise if you work long hours. I found, that exercising enough hours to matter can negatively impact your work performance IF you work long hours. This is very crucial for people who are desperately counting on the hours to make ends meet.

And they started talking about "Universal Basic Income" and even incentivizing exercise. People receiving compensation/money simply for exercising. Which may sound absurd at first but considering the staggering monetary losses in curing sick people and the lost productive time....It may actually start making sense to pay people who are making an effort in disease prevention like exercising.

If people can make money simply by exercising, then they can spend less time working, freeing up time for exercise.

Yes, the lack of time some people have for their own health and well-being is really alarming.

An exercise in the morning before going to work can help for some time, until one can find a better life-work balance to exercise more frequently.

 

[FireDragon76]

I wouldn't turn to Peterson for any real science-based recommendations about much of anything. He peddles in fringe ideas in general.

People in the US actually exercise more than they did decades ago.

Physical Activity Data & Statistics

US facts and data related to physical activity.

www.cdc.gov

The reason Americans are more obese now is simply because people are consuming more junk foods than in the past, especially as snacks.

As the comedian Stephen Colbert said a few years ago, there's a cure for obesity: it's called a vegetable.

 

[trophy33]

I wouldn't turn to Peterson for any real science-based recommendations about much of anything. He peddles in fringe ideas in general.

People in the US actually exercise more than they did decades ago.

Physical Activity Data & Statistics

US facts and data related to physical activity.

www.cdc.gov

The reason Americans are more obese now is simply because people are consuming more junk foods than in the past, especially as snacks.

As the comedian Stephen Colbert said a few years ago, there's a cure for obesity: it's called a vegetable.

Peterson is an interviewer, Peter Attia is the one who brings in expertise.

Vegetable is not an ideal kind of food for humans, though. Sure, malnutrition and slow poisoning on vegetables can hypothetically help with obesity, but its neither sustainable nor healthy.

 

[timewerx]

I wouldn't turn to Peterson for any real science-based recommendations about much of anything. He peddles in fringe ideas in general.

People in the US actually exercise more than they did decades ago.

Physical Activity Data & Statistics

US facts and data related to physical activity.

www.cdc.gov

The reason Americans are more obese now is simply because people are consuming more junk foods than in the past, especially as snacks.

As the comedian Stephen Colbert said a few years ago, there's a cure for obesity: it's called a vegetable.

My meals are basically junk food. Mostly dirt cheap meat foods deep fried and treated with chemicals to make them palatable and lots of rice.

People who eat the same stuff can accumulate fat and become overweight and obese.

Yet, I remain very slightly underweight. I attribute this to having lots of exercise and having only two meals a day and exercising in the morning before the first meal of the day. I exercise with that hunger feeling and the exercises are pretty intense with both cardio and strength exercises. Yet, I don't restrict eating on each meal and eat until fullness.

I can quickly gain weight on the same diet if I stop exercising and start eating more than two meals a day.

 

[trophy33]

My meals are basically junk food. Mostly dirt cheap meat foods deep fried and treated with chemicals to make them palatable and lots of rice.

People who eat the same stuff can accumulate fat and become overweight and obese.

Yet, I remain very slightly underweight. I attribute this to having lots of exercise and having only two meals a day and exercising in the morning before the first meal of the day. I exercise with that hunger feeling and the exercises are pretty intense with both cardio and strength exercises. Yet, I don't restrict eating on each meal and eat until fullness.

I can quickly gain weight on the same diet if I stop exercising and start eating more than two meals a day.

You can buy the meat and prepare it in a healthy way, its not complicated, you need just water, salt and a pot.

 

[timewerx]

You can buy the meat and prepare it in a healthy way, its not complicated, you need just water, salt and a pot.

The ones I buy cooked is cheaper than raw meat in weight. It does have a bit of vegetables like carrots mixed in it. Although it's home-cooked, it's going to be "Junk" for the most part. It taste great despite the poor quality charred meat used.

I didn't find any issues with it. No digestion issues and doesn't hold me back in strength training and cardio workouts. Though I'm not going to be surprised if others who are less active keeps eating the stuff got sick from it.

 

[trophy33]

The ones I buy cooked is cheaper than raw meat in weight. It does have a bit of vegetables like carrots mixed in it. Although it's home-cooked, it's going to be "Junk" for the most part. It taste great despite the poor quality charred meat used.

I didn't find any issues with it. No digestion issues and doesn't hold me back in strength training and cardio workouts. Though I'm not going to be surprised if others who are less active keeps eating the stuff got sick from it.

The deep frying you mentioned is a concern. I suppose its fried in plant oils. Plant oils and sugars are associated with almost any modern civilization disease.

Death by Vegetable Oil: What the Studies Say

In a world without vegetable oil, we may be twenty pounds lighter, have half the amount of heart disease and cancer, live longer, think clearer, feel better, and be happier and less depressed.

www.jeffnobbs.com

 

[RDKirk]

Peterson is an interviewer, Peter Attia is the one who brings in expertise.

Vegetable is not an ideal kind of food for humans, though. Sure, malnutrition and slow poisoning on vegetables can hypothetically help with obesity, but its neither sustainable nor healthy.

Cobert's quip was not a call to veganism, it was to point out that diet is the primary problem, not lack of exercise.

And he's right. I'm an old man. I clearly remember life from the late 50s through the 60s and into the 70s and 80s. The big difference is not exercise, it's our diet and eating habits. You can't outrun a bad diet.

First, we eat too frequently. Back in early decades, most people ate only three meals a day with no snacking. Snacking was literally invented in the late 60s. Kids in school, officer workers in white-collar jobs, blue-collar workers on assembly lines...everyone ate three meals a day with nothing more than water between meals. There were no vending machines and soda machines in schools or at work. There were no break rooms in offices. There was no eating or drinking sodas or sugared coffees in the halls or at our desks.

I distinctly remember when food corporations invented the "after-school snack." Before then, mothers didn't allow their children to eat after school before dinner. "It'll ruin your appetite." Treat and snacks were special.

Today, many people, particularly children, are consuming calories in one way or another every waking hour of the day. That directly creates insulin resistance and leads to Type 2 diabetes, and pancreas and liver damage, as well as the consumption of too many calories.

Second, the food environment has become literally hostile. The heavy chemicalization of food and water began in the 70s (yes, there were things such as pesticides earlier, but they weren't used to the same extent as they became used in the 70s, and chemical companies added so much more that wasn't even contemplated before the 70s. We didn't have estrogen in the water and PFAS in the food. Most beef was grass-fed, most chickens were still free-ranging. The economics hadn't yet changed to make feed lots more profitable. There was one big unrealized danger: Crisco shortening (which was made from cotton seed). But lots of people were still using lard, which was cheaper.

"Fast food" back then was actually just a casual diner that cooked whole food pretty similarly to mom's kitchen. Fast food at that time wasn't something devised by scientists, created in a factory and shipped to the restaurants. It's designed to make you eat more and crave more, according to the findings of scientists. I knew a computer programmer a few years ago who programmed the computers that mixed the "beef" for Steak and Shake restaurants.

Third, related to the first two, is that our work schedules do, indeed, contribute to obesity, but not by reducing exercise time, but by reducing or eliminating the time needed to prepare decent meals. Yes, and the breakup of the family and putting wives into the workforce is part of that (which was a phenomenon of the 70s and 80s).

The big issue there was the near collapse of the US economy in the early 70s that forced wives into the workplace. Then feminism piggy-backed on that social change. More than one thing was happening.

The result is that the average wife and mother is no longer doing the shopping and the cooking that made healthy eating possible in earlier decades. So...more fast food. More convenience foods. Less whole food.

Here is where I saw a difference: Prior to the 80s, the US military had no problem accepting "fluffy" recruits. They knew from a century of experience that they could take any otherwise healthy overweight 18-year-old, and with a controlled diet and regular exercise, whittle him down to proper fighting weight within a couple of months.

Today...that doesn't happen. Overweight recruits are not losing the fat in basic training. Exercise and controlled dieting doesn't work anymore...at least not within the couple of months that it used to work. Recruits are coming in with a different kind of fat that doesn't burn off as quickly. I suspect it's a matter of them having gotten fat so much younger...or it may be chemicals in their bodies. But it's different and difficult, and the military response today is to reject overweight recruits. Now, you have to be within weight limits to enlist.

 

[trophy33]

Today...that doesn't happen. Overweight recruits are not losing the fat in basic training. Exercise and controlled dieting doesn't work anymore...at least not within the couple of months that it used to work. Recruits are coming in with a different kind of fat that doesn't burn off as quickly. I suspect it's a matter of them having gotten fat so much younger...or it may be chemicals in their bodies. But it's different and difficult, and the military response today is to reject overweight recruits. Now, you have to be within weight limits to enlist.

This is interesting. Maybe they have some metabolic disease so their body cannot utilize fat as a source of energy, anymore.

 

[RDKirk]

This is interesting. Maybe they have some metabolic disease so their body cannot utilize fat as a source of energy, anymore.

Well, yes, it's certainly a metabolic disease.

 

[timewerx]

The deep frying you mentioned is a concern. I suppose its fried in plant oils. Plant oils and sugars are associated with almost any modern civilization disease.

Death by Vegetable Oil: What the Studies Say

In a world without vegetable oil, we may be twenty pounds lighter, have half the amount of heart disease and cancer, live longer, think clearer, feel better, and be happier and less depressed.

www.jeffnobbs.com

A problem to many and it used to be a problem for me as well.

But the type of workouts I do in conjunction with timing and frequency of meals makes me immune to these problems.

In fact, I used to be prediabetic with hypertension, and to get migraine headaches often. All of them gone without medical intervention. I simply payed attention to that "little voice". It's probably the Holy Spirit. At first telling me to do cardio exercises and then doing it with intermittent fasting. Then telling me to add weight lifting in my workouts to strengthen my bones and muscles.

I don't feel hungry all the time and seldom feel hungry at all.

And despite eating sugar and lots of carbs, I'm slightly underweight. I have no metabolic issues at all. I can cycle nonstop on mountains for up to 80 miles without eating nor drinking anything in the summer heat without any ill effects. I also run as part of my daily exercises and I workout without eating nor drinking anything. I just don't get hungry nor get thirsty that much and I only eat when hungry and drink when thirsty.

 

[trophy33]

A problem to many and it used to be a problem for me as well.

But the type of workouts I do in conjunction with timing and frequency of meals makes me immune to these problems.

In fact, I used to be prediabetic with hypertension, and to get migraine headaches often. All of them gone without medical intervention. I simply payed attention to that "little voice". It's probably the Holy Spirit. At first telling me to do cardio exercises and then doing it with intermittent fasting. Then telling me to add weight lifting in my workouts to strengthen my bones and muscles.

I don't feel hungry all the time and seldom feel hungry at all.

And despite eating sugar and lots of carbs, I'm slightly underweight. I have no metabolic issues at all. I can cycle nonstop on mountains for up to 80 miles without eating nor drinking anything in the summer heat without any ill effects. I also run as part of my daily exercises and I workout without eating nor drinking anything. I just don't get hungry nor get thirsty that much and I only eat when hungry and drink when thirsty.

Cancer, stroke, clogging arteries, heart attack and similar are not things we necessary feel or notice before they happen. You would need to medically test and scan yourself regularly, to really know.

We are not immune against a diet composed of deep fried food, for a long term. Exercise is certainly helping a lot, but it cannot replace nutrition. Cooking of simple foods at home is not complicated and its rarely more expensive than buying prepared meals.

 

[FireDragon76]

The ones I buy cooked is cheaper than raw meat in weight. It does have a bit of vegetables like carrots mixed in it. Although it's home-cooked, it's going to be "Junk" for the most part. It taste great despite the poor quality charred meat used.

I didn't find any issues with it. No digestion issues and doesn't hold me back in strength training and cardio workouts. Though I'm not going to be surprised if others who are less active keeps eating the stuff got sick from it.

That's not usually what we mean by "junk food". It might qualify as prepackaged food.

In the US, junk foods are typically foods and snacks that are predominantly highly refined grain/potato, oil or fats, salt and/or sugar (potato chips/crisps, tortilla chips, donuts, cookies/biscuits, etc.). Junk food has very few micronutrients like vitamins or minerals, as well as typically having high caloric density and almost no fiber, ie, "empty calories". They also often have flavor enhancers like monosodium glutamate, and are often engineered to be not very fillling but highly palatable ("hyperpalatable").

 

[timewerx]

Cobert's quip was not a call to veganism, it was to point out that diet is the primary problem, not lack of exercise.

And he's right. I'm an old man. I clearly remember life from the late 50s through the 60s and into the 70s and 80s. The big difference is not exercise, it's our diet and eating habits. You can't outrun a bad diet.

From personal experience, the problems stems from both - insufficient exercise and bad diet.

I think more people are exercising today BUT the problem is the same "workout enthusiast" groups are also bombarded with tons of misinformation that you need these sports drinks, gels, high-carb/sugar "fuel" during workout and post workout nutrition to replace burned calories and enhance muscle recovery, etc.

It's really harmful when the so-called "fitness experts" recommend diets of professional athletes to people who only does 1/3 or less the exercise volume of professional athletes. It's only going to make them overweight and sick and it's no surprise many who exercise A LOT remain overweight and maintains body fat above healthy levels.

I only eat twice a day and between dinner and my "brunch" the day after is at least 14 hrs without eating nor drinking anything in between. I do high intensity workouts during this time. Either strength workout or long cardio workout. No eating before the next meal either, just water when thirsty.

However, each weekend when I do some really long endurance workouts, I'll be hungrier than usual and I may eat oatmeal in between meals.

Doing intense workouts before a meal after at least 8 hrs without eating anything and postponing eating for another 6 hrs will force adaptations in the body to metabolize fat at optimum efficiency.

Once you've fully adapted to this routine, you won't feel hunger within 14 hrs despite doing intense cardio or strength exercises. I'm underweight, but, with the whole body strength of someone nearly twice my weight in both sustained and burst power.

A perfect diet won't make up for everything. You still need exercise to develop and maintain strong bones and muscles like running and lifting weights. Having strong bones and muscles would prove useful as you get older. Helps avoid injuries from minor accidents.

Do note the bones won't absorb calcium as much without exercise. It can result to excess of calcium in the blood if you take calcium and Vitamin D food supplements or through milk. The excess calcium in the blood can result to calcification of blood vessels which is bad.

 

[RDKirk]

From personal experience, the problems stems from both - insufficient exercise and bad diet.

I think more people are exercising today BUT the problem is the same "workout enthusiast" groups are also bombarded with tons of misinformation that you need these sports drinks, gels, high-carb/sugar "fuel" during workout and post workout nutrition to replace burned calories and enhance muscle recovery, etc.

It's really harmful when the so-called "fitness experts" recommend diets of professional athletes to people who only does 1/3 or less the exercise volume of professional athletes. It's only going to make them overweight and sick and it's no surprise many who exercise A LOT remain overweight and maintains body fat above healthy levels.

I only eat twice a day and between dinner and my "brunch" the day after is at least 14 hrs without eating nor drinking anything in between. I do high intensity workouts during this time. Either strength workout or long cardio workout. No eating before the next meal either, just water when thirsty.

However, each weekend when I do some really long endurance workouts, I'll be hungrier than usual and I may eat oatmeal in between meals.

Doing intense workouts before a meal after at least 8 hrs without eating anything and postponing eating for another 6 hrs will force adaptations in the body to metabolize fat at optimum efficiency.

Once you've fully adapted to this routine, you won't feel hunger within 14 hrs despite doing intense cardio or strength exercises. I'm underweight, but, with the whole body strength of someone nearly twice my weight in both sustained and burst power.

A perfect diet won't make up for everything. You still need exercise to develop and maintain strong bones and muscles like running and lifting weights. Having strong bones and muscles would prove useful as you get older. Helps avoid injuries from minor accidents.

Do note the bones won't absorb calcium as much without exercise. It can result to excess of calcium in the blood if you take calcium and Vitamin D food supplements or through milk. The excess calcium in the blood can result to calcification of blood vessels which is bad.

Well, I just walked back to the computer from doing my second set of 100 weighted squats for the day...and I'm 70 years old.

But when I was younger, I was an avid road cyclist into my 50s, doing 200-250 miles a week, usually including 75-100 miles every Saturday morning as well as a bit of weight training. And you know what...I was still slowly gaining weight all along. My wife is an excellent baker.

These days, I do much more weight training than I did when I was younger and a lot less cardio. My current cardio practice is 3-4 short sprints (five to ten minutes) every day that get my heartrate up to 80% of my max each time. Once a week, I'll do a HIIT session that gets my heartrate up to maximum. I've been using a heartrate monitor since about 1990, so I'm pretty familiar with how my heart responds to exercise. Of course, that's all on the foundation of decades of heavy cycling. Various cardio scans show my cardiovascular system is clean as a whistle, and my blood pressure is 112/68.

I also intermittent fast, eating at noon and 6 pm. And like you, hunger is a thing of the past. I just don't feel it, even if I skip the noon meal and have forgotten the evening meal later into the evening.

I don't really think eating only one or two meals a day is that significant. I think people would do as well with three meals a day...but no snacking. It's the snacking that's the killer.

But I give praise to God, who has given me three specific healing miracles of four other ailments that would have been severely debilitating, life changing, and even life threatening. I define a "miracle" as when the doctors see what they need to cut out, then what they saw disappears and they say, "How did that happen?"

 

[timewerx]

Cooking of simple foods at home is not complicated and its rarely more expensive than buying prepared meals.

I told you earlier raw meat here is more expensive than some of the cooked meats I buy at the same weight. I buy these at the wet market, not the grocery store. Rice is the only thing I cook. These foods only cost me 36 cents per meal including the rice I cooked.

I don't live in the USA and these wet market fried foods can be very cheap and even cheaper than the raw meats sold at the same wet market. How? I don't bother to ask because I probably would regret knowing how they did it.

And I don't just exercise. I also combine exercising with intermittent fasting during the fasting window. This will force ketosis and sustained fat metabolism. This is how I got cured of Hypertension.

If my blood pressure went down from this lifestyle change, then obviously, anything that serves to restrict blood flow must have melted away or reduced in quantity. There's also studies considering ketosis as cancer therapy to supplant or even replace chemotherapy.

Cancer is linked to chronic illnesses, high blood sugar, high body fat/overweight, similar problems associated with Cardio Vascular Disease or CVD. Ketosis fixes many of these problems and would help lower risk of cancer and CVD.

I won't recommend poor quality foods to anyone. It's only to those who really have no other choice. If it's only that easy to move far away from the city and grow all my food in my backyard, I would have.

Yet it somehow proves, the potential life conditions that might be endured by a follower of Christ during ancient times, walking great distances a day, maybe fasting often at the same time, or doing long walks with little food could make them immune from poison or at least help them deal with poor quality nutrition without getting ill.