Forgiven_and_Redeemed

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Think about each of these questions and answer to the best of your ability.

1) Do you think it should be illegal to discriminate against someone because they are religious? Do you think Hate Crimes should apply to religious people?

2) Do you think religion is a choice?

3) Do you think being gay is a choice?

4) Do you think it should be illegal to discriminate against someone because they are gay? Do you think Hate Crimes should apply to gay people?

I will post what I think later.
 

OllieFranz

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Think about each of these questions and answer to the best of your ability.

Anti-discrimination laws and Hate Crime laws are two separate things. However for the most part my answers would be the same anyway, although I support hate crime legislation only because I don't really see a less drastic way to acheive the ends that they seek to acheive. (This is not a "the ends justify the means" argument. Although I think Hate Crime legislation is drastic, I don't think it is especially unethical. If I thought it was, I would be against it no matter how necessary I thought it was to strive for the ends.)

1) Do you think it should be illegal to discriminate against someone because they are religious? Do you think Hate Crimes should apply to religious people?

They do. They apply to any terroristic threat (at least that's the phrase my State uses -- and long [40 years] before 9/11) intended to intimidate a group based on race, religion, age, gender , etc. -- all of the protected categories. And they protect everyone from haters, not just Black from White, but White from Black; not just Jew from Christian, but Christian from Jew, or muslim, of Buddhist, etc.; not just woman from men, but man from women and so on...

2) Do you think religion is a choice?

Yes, but I don't think it is always chosen. Most people believe the way they were raised to believe. Only a few choose to convert to a different religion, or seek their own answers.

3) Do you think being gay is a choice?

No, it is not.

4) Do you think it should be illegal to discriminate against someone because they are gay? Do you think Hate Crimes should apply to gay people?

As long as there is the kind of discrimination that requires anti-discrimination laws, any group that is subject to that discrimination should be protected by the laws. I feel the same way, though to a much less degree, about Hate crime legislation.
 
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Apollo Celestio

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Think about each of these questions and answer to the best of your ability.
I'll do my BEST!!

1) Do you think it should be illegal to discriminate against someone because they are religious? Do you think Hate Crimes should apply to religious people?
What kind of discrimination? It's rather grey at times, but in the terms you probably mean, yes.

2) Do you think religion is a choice?
For the most part, yes.
Perhaps I am Arminian after all.

3) Do you think being gay is a choice?
Honestly, no.

4) Do you think it should be illegal to discriminate against someone because they are gay? Do you think Hate Crimes should apply to gay people?
No, Yes.
 
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Polycarp1

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Sorry, let me clarify: "Discriminate" means discriminate from employment.

First off, that is not what the law says; discrimination covers a wide range of protected categories. (And, as Ollie notes, it's the category-by-which-to-divide, not the specific group into which divided, that is relevant. If Chez Bruce, an upscale restaurant run by gay men, refuses to hire you specifically because you are a Christian man with a wife and child, you have a valid discrimination claim. A white boy beaten up by a black gang because he's a white kid on their turf is experiencing the same sort of racial discrimination as the reverse used to be (and probably still is in some places).

Now, under certain circumstances, discrimination on the basis of protected catgegories IS legitimate. If one were employing a wet nurse, for example, restricting it to women would be an obvious job requirement. Our Lady of Sorrows Retreat Center may require that its resident clergyman be an ordained Catholic priest.

To be a legitimate, legally acceptable case of discrimination, the criterion must be directly connected to bona fide job qualifications, not superimposed on them out of personal prejudice. Sorry for hijacking your discussion, but that sort of thing really needs to be clarified; a lot of people think "hate crime laws" protect "being black/jewish/gay" -- it's the whole idea of discriminating against someone through prejudice on the basis of an unchosen part of their nature that is at the foot of it.



====================

Now, to your questions:

1) Do you think it should be illegal to discriminate against someone because they are religious? Do you think Hate Crimes should apply to religious people?

Yes to the first question. I will note a very specific exception: if your religious beliefs lead you to refuse to perform a legitimate job function, and you decline to compromise in any way, in that one case yes, there are valid grounds. If for example you were a devout Catholic (not picking on Catholics, but I know their moral criteria better) who was vehemently opposed to the sale of contraceptives of any form, and you were employed in a store where they represent a significant proportion of sales, so that it is not possible to have another employee handle the sales offensive to you, then yeah, they would have a ground for discrimination -- not because you were Catholic but because your religious beliefs and their store policy cannot be reconciled.

I'm assuming that "Hate Crimes" means 'hate crime laws' in the second question -- I don't think Hate Crimes should 'apply to' anybody, and would see them eradicated if it were in my power. But yes, Hate Crime Laws should apply to religious people. Nobody should be rejected or fired from a job, assaulted, harassed, or whatever just because they are Catholic, Jewish. Pentecostal, Neopagan, or whatever.

If you cannot express your religious belief in a form that avoids committing a hate crime, you either need to change religions or rethink your behavior. I think it's quite possible to say that your belief is that God condemns homosexual acts without inciting to violence or resorting to direct insult.

2) Do you think religion is a choice?

This is very much a "depends." For a large proportion of people, their religious beliefs are a choice. For some, it's imposed by family, not a choice. For some, it is not a choice for other reasons -- they have had a conversion experience which has impacted their life in such a way that disbelief is no longer an option.

But how one goes about expressing one's beliefs is definitely a choice. I know Baptists who are among the most wonderful people I've ever met -- and I know Baptists who would improve the world by meeting Herod and Salome, if you get the point. Both adhered to the same Baptist Faith and Message statement of belief -- but how they went about expressing it in the world could not be more different.

3) Do you think being gay is a choice?

No. The only people for whom being gay is a 'choice' are those who are validly bisexual and who are able to condition themselves to focus on only one aspect of their orientation.

How one expresses one's homosexuality can be a series of choices -- though sometimes that choice is taken from people ("being outed").

4) Do you think it should be illegal to discriminate against someone because they are gay? Do you think Hate Crimes should apply to gay people?

Same answer as for #2. Okay, Tom, Dick, Harry, Jason, and Keith are applying for one of the three waiter jobs at the posh, sedate Windsor Club Restaurant. Tom and Dick are Christians of different denominations, Tom married and with a baby daughter, Dick single and engaged. Harry is an agnostic who is dating two girls (not misleading them) and wears two piercings. Jason is a gay man in a committed relationship who doesn't "bring his life to work" -- he's honest about his orientation and commitment if asked but doesn't push the issue. Keith is a "flaming queen" with outrageous camp mannerisms. To discriminate against Tom or Dick for their faith, or Harry for his lack of faith, would be wrong. But also, to discriminate against Jason for his orientation would be equally wrong. I think, given the expectations of the job in the ambience which is is an important part of what the restaurant "sells," discriminating against Keith would be legitimate -- but it would be because of his chosen mannerisms, not because of his orientation. Harry could be obliged to remove his piercings before he would be employed; Keith, to change his at-work behavior. And both could be rejected, not on the basis of prejudice, but because of how their chosen behaviors would fit the ambience of the business, and because they refused a compromise.
 
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Texas Lynn

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1) Do you think it should be illegal to discriminate against someone because they are religious? Do you think Hate Crimes should apply to religious people?

Generally yes, but, we must remember hearings by compliance officers are an integral part of such issues and what is claimed to be "religious discrimination" isn't always. For instance, in the former state agency where I worked an employee was terminated in part due to her work performance after she had a "born again" experience and began to neglect her official duties to evangelize clients. she was counseled and given an opportunity to change but did not so eventually and after beaucoup documentation she was terminated. She later claimed religious discrimination but lost in the hearing, rightfully so.

2) Do you think religion is a choice?

Generally. There is the matter of being raised in a particular faith and so forth but generally it is a conscious decision to affiliate thus.

3) Do you think being gay is a choice?

No. As a matter of fact many persons who are perceived to be gay, primarily short-haired women and effeminate men, or actually straight or even asexual. Those individuals so attacked are generally entitled to grievences just as someone who really is LGBT.

4) Do you think it should be illegal to discriminate against someone because they are gay? Do you think Hate Crimes should apply to gay people?

Yes, as long as due process is observed.
 
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