Handwritten Dogmas and the Letter which Kills

[ralliann]

Luke 2: 25 And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him. 26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ. 27 And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law, 28 Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said, 29 Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word: 30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, 31 Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people; 32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.

The Law and Prophets had always prophesied and taught "One law" shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you..

Lev. 19: 34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

Simeon knew and understood this, understanding the Scriptures. Peter was being taught.

Peter, being influenced by the Jews who created a wall of Separation contrary to God's Law, was given a vision by the Christ to show him this error. By the time Acts 15 came around, Peter had been corrected.

14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. 15 "And to this agree the words of the prophets"; as it is written, 16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: 17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

And he understood how that would happen no better than the Apostles did

As Isaiah also Prophesied;

Is. 53: 6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

So again, because men omit the Scriptures that don't promote their adopted religious philosophy, they promote another falsehood. By the Time Acts 15 came around, Peter and the apostles understood perfectly, what the Prophets had prophesied before the Exodus even began, and Simeon knew this, before the Christ was even born, as also evidenced by Scriptures.

No they did not. Acts is clear on that. They had a Rabbinic idea, not a christian Idea.

So it is a falsehood to teach others, that in Acts 15, Peter and the Apostles didn't know what the Prophets had prophesied regarding Gentiles being brought in.

Peter and the rest of the Church at Jerusalem did not understand..... They had a different idea of those prophesies. Thy were made priests etc, by the disannulling of the carnal commands was complete even to the Gentiles being brought in.

I am pretty sure, given past experience, that you do not answer questions asked of you. Most preachers don't. But I would ask one anyway.

Sorry you dislike my answers.

Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

Regarding the religious sect of the Pharisees in Acts 15, "What Yoke" did they place on the Necks of the Disciples Fathers? Was it God's Laws? Or did they teach for doctrines the Commandments of Men?

I will wait for your answer.

The yoke of the earthly kingdom, becoming a Son of the torah of Moses.

Mt 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Again, "Many" who come in Christ's Name, omit Words of God.

25 And thou, Ezra, after the wisdom of thy God, that is in thine hand, set magistrates and judges, which may judge all the people that are beyond the river, all such as "know the laws of thy God"; and "teach ye them "that know them not".

26 And whosoever will not do the law of thy God, (Beyond the river) and the law of the king, let judgment be executed speedily upon him, whether it be unto death, or to banishment, or to confiscation of goods, or to imprisonment.

The law of the king. What was the law of the decree. It was not Mosaic levitical law

This is why I left the religions of this world men have adopted and are now promoting. Men "come in Christ's Name", but they further falsehoods about His Word. I know men are only parroting what someone else has taught them. But seriously, can a man be more wrong about both Acts 15, and Ezra 7. At what point does a man turn to God, away from this world's religious sects.

Ezra was told to Judge those who "knew God's Law" and teach God's Law to those who did not know God's Law. Isn't that what the Apostles did by directing the Gentile converts to the Law of Moses? Which will result in what Ralliann? A people that all know God's Laws. And then what was Ezra tasked to do? He was told to Judge those who do not do the Law of God.

Paul directed Gentiles to the law of Moses as well. Hear the law from Paul....
Gal 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

Ecc. 12: 13 The terminus of the whole matter has been heard: Fear the One, Elohim, and keep His instructions, For this is the whole duty of humanity." (Jew and Gentile) 14 For the One, Elohim, shall bring every deed into judgment concerning all that is obscured, Whether good or whether evil."

2 Cor. 5: 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

The Abrahamic promises are a part of that instruction.
Ro 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

 

[ralliann]

There are multiple threads explaining why and how you have mistakenly mixed up the covenants and many other things. Several of your comments would take whole threads to explain the reality. We do not understand the Apostolic writings the same anymore than we understand the Torah the same. I suppose we will just have to agree to disagree.

Ah but you kept going anyway.

However here is just one example that expounds much of what I have said herein today, but it is first necessary to understand that there is Logos, (reason, reasoning, and the understanding thereof), in these words, and that Logos must be heard: otherwise it is not possible to understand and observe the doctrine which is being taught within the context.



Leviticus 2:13 is the only place in the Torah where the command to salt every sacrifice is given.
There is no other place you will find this commandment to salt every offering or sacrifice.

Leviticus 2:13 LSV
13 And every offering—your present—you season with salt, and you do not let the salt of the covenant of your God cease from your present; you bring salt near with all your offerings. [Mrk 9:49]

Covenant of Salt, Aaron and son's....and Levites

6 And I, behold, I have taken your brethren the Levites from among the children of Israel: to you they are given as a gift for the LORD, to do the service of the tabernacle of the congregation.
7 Therefore thou and thy sons with thee shall keep your priest’s office for every thing of the altar, and within the vail; and ye shall serve: I have given your priest’s office unto you as a service of gift: and the stranger that cometh nigh shall be put to death.
8 ¶ And the LORD spake unto Aaron, Behold, I also have given thee the charge of mine heave offerings of all the hallowed things of the children of Israel; unto thee have I given them by reason of the anointing, and to thy sons, by an ordinance for ever.
9 This shall be thine of the most holy things, reserved from the fire: every oblation of theirs, every meat offering of theirs, and every sin offering of theirs, and every trespass offering of theirs, which they shall render unto me, shall be most holy for thee and for thy sons.
10 In the most holy place shalt thou eat it; every male shall eat it: it shall be holy unto thee.
11 And this is thine; the heave offering of their gift, with all the wave offerings of the children of Israel: I have given them unto thee, and to thy sons and to thy daughters with thee, by a statute for ever: every one that is clean in thy house shall eat of it.
12 All the best of the oil, and all the best of the wine, and of the wheat, the firstfruits of them which they shall offer unto the LORD, them have I given thee.
13 And whatsoever is first ripe in the land, which they shall bring unto the LORD, shall be thine; every one that is clean in thine house shall eat of it.
14 Every thing devoted in Israel shall be thine.
15 Every thing that openeth the matrix in all flesh, which they bring unto the LORD, whether it be of men or beasts, shall be thine: nevertheless the firstborn of man shalt thou surely redeem, and the firstling of unclean beasts shalt thou redeem.
16 And those that are to be redeemed from a month old shalt thou redeem, according to thine estimation, for the money of five shekels, after the shekel of the sanctuary, which is twenty gerahs.
17 But the firstling of a cow, or the firstling of a sheep, or the firstling of a goat, thou shalt not redeem; they are holy: thou shalt sprinkle their blood upon the altar, and shalt burn their fat for an offering made by fire, for a sweet savour unto the LORD.
18 And the flesh of them shall be thine, as the wave breast and as the right shoulder are thine.
19 All the heave offerings of the holy things, which the children of Israel offer unto the LORD, have I given thee, and thy sons and thy daughters with thee, by a statute for ever: it is a covenant of salt for ever before the LORD unto thee and to thy seed with thee.
20 ¶ And the LORD spake unto Aaron, Thou shalt have no inheritance in their land, neither shalt thou have any part among them: I am thy part and thine inheritance among the children of Israel.
21 And, behold, I have given the children of Levi all the tenth in Israel for an inheritance, for their service which they serve, even the service of the tabernacle of the congregation.

Mark 9:49 LSV
49 for everyone will be salted with fire, and every sacrifice will be salted with salt. [Lev 2:13]

The Master expounds the sacrifices in this passage beginning with the commandment to offer salt with every sacrificial offering or sacrifice: but he teaches not according to what the natural mind of the natural man perceives to be literal-physical animal sacrifices, for the Mark text is plain as day what he is teaching about, that is, cutting off sin from your members in a manner of speech which is borderline apocalyptic so that the reader may know that he speaks of supernal and spiritual things and not physical and natural things of below. Moreover at the same time he also quotes a well know statement from Yeshayah the Prophet, at the very end of that book, and the LXX version of the passage verifies and comfirms precisely what he is speaking about in the Mark 9 passage.

Isaiah 66:24 OG LXX
24 και εξελευσονται και οψονται τα κωλα των ανθρωπων των παραβεβηκοτων εν εμοι ο γαρ σκωληξ αυτων ου τελευτησει και το πυρ αυτων ου σβεσθησεται και εσονται εις ορασιν παση σαρκι

κωλα = κωλον = a limb of the body, as if chopped or lopped off (re: Mark 9:43-50).

Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments
G2966 κῶλον kolon (kō'-lon) n.
a limb of the body (as if lopped).
[from the base of G2849]

The Master therefore interprets for us this passage from the Prophet by referring the hearer to the commandment to salt every sacrifice in Lev 2:13, proving that he teaches a spiritual and supernal application to the sacrifices. And what therefore does that also tell us? In his testimony he is indeed renewing the covenant, not overturning it or planning for it to be set aside or any part of it to be abolished. It is indeed therefore a renewed covenant because his Testimony has restored the covenant and all its instructions and teachings to their original meanings and intent as they were originally given. There is one very simple little fact that when people ignore it they stumble, and that fact is that the Torah is spiritual, even according to Paul, (Rom 7:14), and to ignore this fact is catastrophic to doctrine.

I don't disagree the Torah is spiritual.

 

[daq]

Covenant of Salt, Aaron and son's....and Levites

Do you believe that the Mrk 9:43-50 passage which was quoted applies to you? And if it applies to you then why is the Master quoting from Lev 2:13 in order to expound his doctrine for you if Lev 2:13 does not apply to you? Moreover, if Lev 2:13 applies to what he states in the Mark passage, then the way to understand Lev 2:13 according the Meshiah is supernal or spiritual in meaning, and that meaning is also expounded in the Mark passage with the quote from Isa 66:24. Have you studied the context surrounding Isa 66:24? It has to do with entrance into the new heavens and new earth, (or renewed heavens and renewed earth).

Isaiah 66:18-24 KJV
18 For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory.
19 And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles.
20 And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD.
21 And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD.
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; [Mrk 9:44-48] and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

So then, if you believe the Testimony of the Master applies to you, and if you desire to enter into the new heavens and the new earth, surely some eye plucking and limb chopping is going to be required. The soul that sins shall die: we are to put those transgressing members of our household to death, (or as Paul says according to the KJV, mortify).

 

[Studyman]

And he understood how that would happen no better than the Apostles did

I simply posted and believe what is written. You are free to judge Simeon and the Apostles if you like.

No they did not. Acts is clear on that. They had a Rabbinic idea, not a christian Idea.

It seems prudent to define "Christian" if you are going to use the term. The Jesus "of the Bible", says that "MANY" who call Him Lord, Lord, who preach in His Name, who cast our devils in His Name, HE doesn't even know, because of their lawless works. I would post His Words, but clearly you are not influenced by them. So even though a man might call themselves "christian" or Christ-like", their works reveal the truth about them.

Making up falsehoods about the Word of God is evil, and a person who has "Yielded himself a Servant to Obey God", AKA a "Christian", would never do such a thing.

I posted the Inspired Scriptures regarding what the apostles knew in acts 15.

14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. 15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, 16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: 17 That the residue of men might "seek after the Lord", and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

These Gentiles had "Turned to God" or were "Seeking the Lord" as Prophesied. It is a lie, a deception to promote some foolishness that these Inspired Words of God were some "Rabbinic idea".

Now I know you come in Christ's Name, and you teach that Jesus is truly the Christ, but this teaching you are promoting is a deception, if a man trusts the Holy Scriptures "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works".

And the Jesus "of the Bible, warned me to take heed of this very thing.

Matt. 24: 4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I (Jesus) am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Peter and the rest of the Church at Jerusalem did not understand..... They had a different idea of those prophesies. Thy were made priests etc, by the disannulling of the carnal commands was complete even to the Gentiles being brought in.

They may not have understood or aligned themselves with the religion you have adopted and are now promoting, but I posted the Words spoken in Acts 15. Clearly the Spirit on them brought more understanding than you are giving it credit.

The yoke of the earthly kingdom, becoming a Son of the torah of Moses.

The Torah is the Inspired Word of God, not Moses. Jesus, that is the Jesus "of the Bible" was the "Word of God", (Torah) which became flesh. If there was ever a "Son of Torah", it was the Lord's Christ.

Moses never created even one Law, and your attempt to convince others that the Torah is "of Moses", and not of God, is quite devious, why would a man attempt such deception?

But I am grateful that you answered this question, it exposes a great deal about the religion you are promoting.

Mt 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

You couldn't have chosen a more appropriate scripture under the circumstance.

As to your implication that the religious sect of the Pharisees were faithful to the Word of God, or as you preach "Sons of Torah".

Jn. 7: 19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

Mark 7: 9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

Acts 7: 51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. 52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: 53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

So there is nothing truthful about your post above.

The law of the king. What was the law of the decree. It was not Mosaic levitical law

You must now deflect from the actual scripture you posted, along with the verse you cunningly omitted, and change the subject. I used to feel sorry for men who were snared by the prince of this world to do it's will. But as I grow in knowledge of God, I am no longer sorry for men who promote leaven. You have the same Bible as I do. The same words, the same teaching. A man chooses to believe the Word of God, or reject it.

Rom. 1: 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

So men know the Word of God, they just don't believe it. I believe it. You clearly don't. Paul believed it, the Pharisees didn't. It's as simple as that as Paul also defines for us.

2 Cor. 11: 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Paul directed Gentiles to the law of Moses as well. Hear the law from Paul....
Gal 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

But all men have sinned, Yes? So all men are in need of forgiveness, in Moses' time as well as our time, Yes? This is universal truth that even you, must surely confess.

So in Moses Time, when a man's sin came to his attention, how were these sins forgiven? This is one covenant, Yes? But "AFTER those days", when the New Prophesied Priest of God, the Lamb of God, the "SEED" should come, have all men still sinned? Are all men not still in need of forgiveness? Surly the answer to this question is also YES. But Are sins forgiven in the same manner in Moses Time, as they were after the SEED had come? No! After those days, a new covenant was brought forth as Prophesied.

So then the 2 covenants. In the first covenant, in Moses Time, a man who sins, takes a goat to a Levite Priest, and kills it, the Priest takes the Blood thereof, and performs works with it, and in this process, this man's sins are forgiven. (Lev. 4)

But after the SEED has come, God's Priest "After the order of Melchizedek" and not after the Order of Aaron, a New process for the remission of sins is made manifest. The old process becoming old and vanished. Why? "For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins."

It was always the Blood of the Lamb of God, the first Covenant was a shadow to lead us to the True Lamb of God for forgiveness. When the Lamb of God has come, it is no longer necessary to engage in the shadow, with its sacrificial "Works of the Law". The Pharisees, because they didn't believe Moses, were still requiring the old covenant "works of the Law" for the remission of sins. This is why they were still selling sacrifices in the temple even though the SEED had come. Paul declares unto them "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

The deceiver, just as it deceived Eve, wants to convince as many as possible that God lied to them, as it convinced Eve, and it has snared you to do its will. The only way to be free from this snare, is to believe the Word of God which became Flesh. But lets face it, you really don't believe in the God and Father of the Lord's Christ. Therefore when the Jesus "of the bible" teaches " It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God", this teaching means nothing to you, as in your religion, the Word of God is a Worldy Kingdom, and really of Moses.

The Abrahamic promises are a part of that instruction.

Gen. 26: 4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; 5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

The Law regarding sacrifices for the remission of sins was not "ADDED" until 430 years after Abraham obeyed God's commandments, and that because of Transgressions, and this Law was to be in place "Till the Seed should come". Paul tells us all about this in Galatians 3.

Ro 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

By what Law? The Law that was Transgressed? (Law of Faith) Or the Law "ADDED" (for remission of sins) because of Transgression, "Law of Works".

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified (Remission of sins) by (The Law of) faith, without the deeds of the law (of works).

As Paul also confirms in Romans 2: 13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Doers of What Law? The Law in which we receive the Knowledge of Sin? (Law of Faith)? Or the Law ADDED because we rejected the Law which defines Sin?

Sadly, most preachers will continue to justify their own darkness, even avoiding the Light of Christ, lest the darkness is exposed. I say let's bring every work into the Light, every belief and every doctrine into the LIGHT of the Word of God which became Flesh, which is Spirit and Truth. In this way the darkness is exposed, and disappears, leaving only the Truth of God in our hearts.

 

[HIM]

It's really not much different than inserting parenthetical brackets into the text.

Not even remotely the same. Take care.

 

[daq]

Not even remotely the same. Take care.

Much more than remotely the same.
Thanks for the opportunity to exchange opinions.