Had a Vision...

[CraigBaugher]

Gays... I had a vision that explained your role in this world. Not that I asked for this, or prayed for this, it just came.

However, you, being Gay, have a role much greater than you know, and one that may not seem fair, but one that is to show your fellow Christians how to live and how to be strong.

For you are right when you say God made you the way that you are, that you did not chose to be Gay, rather that is how you were born. Nevertheless, God made you this way to show the world around you what true strength in faith is all about.

God made you with this strong desire. A desire much stronger than the rest of us, and for that you will be rewarded greatly for staying in faith and resisting your strong earthly desires. For it is God word, as stated in the bible, we are not to have sex with a same sex partner, and yet God created you with this strong desire. Nevertheless, he did so, so that the rest of us know how great your desire is and how great you suffer, and thus how great is your faith in staying pure. "If he or she can stay pure to the word of God, with their strong inbred desire to sin, then I can stay strong in my faith too! For how great is their sacrifice."

I asked, "What is their punishment if they fail in this quest to be pure, if you made them this way?" However, I did not receive an answer, I just got this feeling of peace wash over me. "Tell them and the world what I said."

 

[CraigBaugher]

I don't believe in God. If you could convince me that your God existed, and that he had communicated the above message to you, I would not want to worship him; I would want to fight to dethrone him.

Well that is ok... Someday you will meet him, and I am sure you two will have a lot to talk about. But until that time... I wish you the best...

 

[HaloHope]

Gays... I had a vision that explained your role in this world. Not that I asked for this, or prayed for this, it just came.

However, you, being Gay, have a role much greater than you know, and one that may not seem fair, but one that is to show your fellow Christians how to live and how to be strong.

For you are right when you say God made you the way that you are, that you did not chose to be Gay, rather that is how you were born. Nevertheless, God made you this way to show the world around you what true strength in faith is all about.

God made you with this strong desire. A desire much stronger than the rest of us, and for that you will be rewarded greatly for staying in faith and resisting your strong earthly desires. For it is God word, as stated in the bible, we are not to have sex with a same sex partner, and yet God created you with this strong desire. Nevertheless, he did so, so that the rest of us know how great your desire is and how great you suffer, and thus how great is your faith in staying pure. "If he or she can stay pure to the word of God, with their strong inbred desire to sin, then I can stay strong in my faith too! For how great is their sacrifice."

I asked, "What is their punishment if they fail in this quest to be pure, if you made them this way?" However, I did not receive an answer, I just got this feeling of peace wash over me. "Tell them and the world what I said."

So, God created me to be alone, depressed, to never know the joy of sharing my life with someone I love and to basically not have the wonderful relationship I currently have with another woman.

I appreciate that you may well believe what youve posted above and have my best interests at heart. But im really not convinced. If God were that cruel he wouldnt be a God worth worshipping in the first place.

 

[Apollo Celestio]

So, God created me to be alone, depressed, to never know the joy of sharing my life with someone I love and to basically not have the wonderful relationship I currently have with another woman.

I appreciate that you may well believe what youve posted above and have my best interests at heart. But im really not convinced. If God were that cruel he wouldnt be a God worth worshipping in the first place.

You're a Christian, remember what this life is compared to eternity. Many have suffered for the sake of the gospel. Know this. Some will be shown mercy, others not. I don't know what to take of the OP, but I've thought about that exact scenario, and wonder where someone like me fits in..

 

[CraigBaugher]

So that pretty much makes your version of god a sadistic monster, huh?

Actually no... You perceive life as the natural 60-100 years our earthly bodies survive. In the grand scheme, 60 years of trial to be rewarded trillions and trillions of years as a result, does not seem bad at all.

But regardless what religion or set of beliefs you hold to be true or untrue, we all face trials, things that test us physically, mentally, economically, etc. The difference... I know there is a reward for the trials I face, and that reward is great.

So thank you very much for your question, and I am always available to you for any other question you have.

 

[KCKID]

So that pretty much makes your version of god a sadistic monster, huh?

No, no. I've come to the conclusion that the God of the Bible CANNOT be one and the same God that created ...well, everything. The God of the Old Testament can and DOES come across as being pretty sadistic and that's why I can't buy that God. I just can't. Christianity itself paints God to be the epitome of love displayed through His Creation but it also paints God as being someone who will suffer 'the lost' to eternal torment just for not believing in Him. This surely cannot be. The crazy part is that most Christians are fine with such a God. Go figure!

I would sooner use common sense reasoning and be prepared to accept that the Bible writers used a great deal of superstitious poetic license and cultural fables to describe God and many of the biblical events. Furthermore, I don't believe that WE were ever intended to be their target audience. They would have had no concept of the future and a period of time known as AD2008.

I don't quite know WHAT I believe these days and I freely admit to that. That admission alone could bring a whole slew of critical remarks against me from 'the saints'. Christians seem to get very nervous and defensive when anyone questions God. However, that's THEIR problem and not God's. I'm sure that God can handle it, even if Christians can't.

I cannot believe for one moment that the wrath of God will be poured down on two people who are sexually attracted to one another - perhaps even in love - whose only 'major' sin is simply 'making out'. If those two people care not a d--n about the less fortunate, the poor, the hungry, the sick, the inncarcerated, however ...then perhaps God WILL take a dim view of that. Meanwhile, their sexuality is surely a non-issue to God ...?

I think you'll find, Caylin, that the only ones getting hung up on homosexuality are (some) Christians. So, I wouldn't let it bother you ...no matter how many 'God hates homosexual' scriptures they might toss at you. You're a treasure of God. Don't forget that ...even though 'they' will keep going out of 'their' way to tell you over and over and over again that you're on the Highway to Hell.

 

[CraigBaugher]

No, no. I've come to the conclusion that the God of the Bible CANNOT be one and the same God that created ...well, everything. The God of the Old Testament can and DOES come across as being pretty sadistic and that's why I can't buy that God. I just can't. Christianity itself paints God to be the epitome of love displayed through His Creation but it also paints God as being someone who will suffer 'the lost' to eternal torment just for not believing in Him. This surely cannot be. The crazy part is that most Christians are fine with such a God. Go figure!

I would sooner use common sense reasoning and be prepared to accept that the Bible writers used a great deal of superstitious poetic license and cultural fables to describe God and many of the biblical events. Furthermore, I don't believe that WE were ever intended to be their target audience. They would have had no concept of the future and a period of time known as AD2008.

I don't quite know WHAT I believe these days and I freely admit to that. That admission alone could bring a whole slew of critical remarks against me from 'the saints'. Christians seem to get very nervous and defensive when anyone questions God. However, that's THEIR problem and not God's. I'm sure that God can handle it, even if Christians can't.

I cannot believe for one moment that the wrath of God will be poured down on two people who are sexually attracted to one another - perhaps even in love - whose only 'major' sin is simply 'making out'. If those two people care not a d--n about the less fortunate, the poor, the hungry, the sick, the inncarcerated, however ...then perhaps God WILL take a dim view of that. Meanwhile, their sexuality is surely a non-issue to God ...?

I think you'll find, Caylin, that the only ones getting hung up on homosexuality are (some) Christians. So, I wouldn't let it bother you ...no matter how many 'God hates homosexual' scriptures they might toss at you. You're a treasure of God. Don't forget that ...even though 'they' will keep going out of 'their' way to tell you over and over and over again that you're on the Highway to Hell.

How you doing Kid... Life treating you well... Having a good day I hope...

Let me begin by saying, God is loving... as your parents are loving, or at least I hope they are... I have some great kids myself, and even as great as they are, every once in a while I have to put them in check. We are God's children, and even though we are a bunch of great kids, every once in a while we get out of hand and God has to put you in check.

Now... Imagine if you had a kid that was wild, and they started murdering, raping, stealing, etc. Being a good parent you would try every you could to stop them to gain control. But what if couldn't control them and you knew if you didn't stop them, they were going to continue to kill, rape, steal, etc. Would you turn a blind eye, saying, "I tired," or would you take them out. If it was me... as tough and as heart breaking as it would be, I would be forced to take them out. It would crush me, but I would do it.

Now... on the other hand, you had a great kid, but they were having same sex intercourse, and you told them, "Please do not do that, it is an insult to me, for I made you to generate life," but they kept doing it anyway. What would you do? Well chances are, you would love them anyways and you would turn a blind eye to the sex. Why? Because you love them... Well, in my OP, I ask God the same question, but I did not get an answer. So I cannot answer what God would do, but I know what I would do as a loving parent, and that would be to turn blind eye to my, otherwise Great Kid, kid's sexual habits.

If that is what I would do, and God is greater than I, I cannot imagine him doing anything different, but...

On the other hand, how much greater is the reward for simply obeying the word of God and the eternal life to come? Seriously, how important is sex in the grand scheme of things? 15-30-minutes of pleasure. How much more pleasure do you get from helping someone in need. The feeling of sex fades quickly, but the feeling of helping someone lasts a hundred times longer.

I will not judge you, it is not for me to judge, that job falls to Jesus. I will love you, no matter what.

 

[KCKID]

How you doing Kid... Life treating you well... Having a good day I hope...

Let me begin by saying, God is loving... as your parents are loving, or at least I hope they are... I have some great kids myself, and even as great as they are, every once in a while I have to put them in check. We are God's children, and even though we are a bunch of great kids, every once in a while we get out of hand and God has to put you in check.

Now... Imagine if you had a kid that was wild, and they started murdering, raping, stealing, etc. Being a good parent you would try every you could to stop them to gain control. But what if couldn't control them and you knew if you didn't stop them, they were going to continue to kill, rape, steal, etc. Would you turn a blind eye, saying, "I tired," or would you take them out. If it was me... as tough and as heart breaking as it would be, I would be forced to take them out. It would crush me, but I would do it.

Now... on the other hand, you had a great kid, but they were having same sex intercourse, and you told them, "Please do not do that, it is an insult to me, for I made you to generate life," but they kept doing it anyway. What would you do? Well chances are, you would love them anyways and you would turn a blind eye to the sex. Why? Because you love them... Well, in my OP, I ask God the same question, but I did not get an answer. So I cannot answer what God would do, but I know what I would do as a loving parent, and that would be to turn blind eye to my, otherwise Great Kid, kid's sexual habits.

If that is what I would do, and God is greater than I, I cannot imagine him doing anything different, but...

On the other hand, how much greater is the reward for simply obeying the word of God and the eternal life to come? Seriously, how important is sex in the grand scheme of things? 15-30-minutes of pleasure. How much more pleasure do you get from helping someone in need. The feeling of sex fades quickly, but the feeling of helping someone lasts a hundred times longer.

I will not judge you, it is not for me to judge, that job falls to Jesus. I will love you, no matter what.

Obviously, I don't know how you and I will get along in the future (on the forum) but, for now anyway, I appreciate your post.

 

[Zaac]

Gays... I had a vision that explained your role in this world. Not that I asked for this, or prayed for this, it just came.

However, you, being Gay, have a role much greater than you know, and one that may not seem fair, but one that is to show your fellow Christians how to live and how to be strong.

For you are right when you say God made you the way that you are, that you did not chose to be Gay, rather that is how you were born. Nevertheless, God made you this way to show the world around you what true strength in faith is all about.

God made you with this strong desire. A desire much stronger than the rest of us, and for that you will be rewarded greatly for staying in faith and resisting your strong earthly desires. For it is God word, as stated in the bible, we are not to have sex with a same sex partner, and yet God created you with this strong desire. Nevertheless, he did so, so that the rest of us know how great your desire is and how great you suffer, and thus how great is your faith in staying pure. "If he or she can stay pure to the word of God, with their strong inbred desire to sin, then I can stay strong in my faith too! For how great is their sacrifice."

I asked, "What is their punishment if they fail in this quest to be pure, if you made them this way?" However, I did not receive an answer, I just got this feeling of peace wash over me. "Tell them and the world what I said."

Very interesting. I remember telling this baord something very similar years ago. What a powerful testimony it would be for anyone with these desires to say that I loved Jesus Christ and my witness for Him more than I do my identification with being gay and the things associated with being gay.

Because you love Jesus more, to lay down everything...including your sexual orientation.

Now that is a testimony.

 

[KCKID]

Very interesting. I remember telling this baord something very similar years ago. What a powerful testimony it would be for anyone with these desires to say that I loved Jesus Christ and my witness for Him more than I do my identification with being gay and the things associated with being gay.

Because you love Jesus more, to lay down everything...including your sexual orientation.

Now that is a testimony.

Alright. I'll assume you are heterosexual. I'll assume (for argument's sake) that you're a practicing heterosexual. Would you - RIGHT NOW - be willing to remain celibate for the rest of your life for whatever reason?

Please be honest.

 

[Apollo Celestio]

No, no. I've come to the conclusion that the God of the Bible CANNOT be one and the same God that created ...well, everything. The God of the Old Testament can and DOES come across as being pretty sadistic and that's why I can't buy that God. I just can't. Christianity itself paints God to be the epitome of love displayed through His Creation but it also paints God as being someone who will suffer 'the lost' to eternal torment just for not believing in Him. This surely cannot be. The crazy part is that most Christians are fine with such a God. Go figure!

I would sooner use common sense reasoning and be prepared to accept that the Bible writers used a great deal of superstitious poetic license and cultural fables to describe God and many of the biblical events. Furthermore, I don't believe that WE were ever intended to be their target audience. They would have had no concept of the future and a period of time known as AD2008.

I don't quite know WHAT I believe these days and I freely admit to that. That admission alone could bring a whole slew of critical remarks against me from 'the saints'. Christians seem to get very nervous and defensive when anyone questions God. However, that's THEIR problem and not God's. I'm sure that God can handle it, even if Christians can't.

I cannot believe for one moment that the wrath of God will be poured down on two people who are sexually attracted to one another - perhaps even in love - whose only 'major' sin is simply 'making out'. If those two people care not a d--n about the less fortunate, the poor, the hungry, the sick, the inncarcerated, however ...then perhaps God WILL take a dim view of that. Meanwhile, their sexuality is surely a non-issue to God ...?

I think you'll find, Caylin, that the only ones getting hung up on homosexuality are (some) Christians. So, I wouldn't let it bother you ...no matter how many 'God hates homosexual' scriptures they might toss at you. You're a treasure of God. Don't forget that ...even though 'they' will keep going out of 'their' way to tell you over and over and over again that you're on the Highway to Hell.

DEMIURGE GOOOO~

Alright. I'll assume you are heterosexual. I'll assume (for argument's sake) that you're a practicing heterosexual. Would you - RIGHT NOW - be willing to remain celibate for the rest of your life for whatever reason?

Please be honest.

I guess we can see why people call it a 'sacrifice' to go into the priesthood rather than live normally. If whatever reason = for the Lord I don't see why anyone who loves God would say no. Jesus > Sex. I know that wasn't to me, but I figured why not post that. I'm sure you know about my 'condition' so I don't need to answer the question.

 

[KCKID]

DEMIURGE GOOOO~

?? I'm afraid you've lost me with that one . . .

I guess we can see why people call it a 'sacrifice' to go into the priesthood rather than live normally. If whatever reason = for the Lord I don't see why anyone who loves God would say no. Jesus > Sex. I know that wasn't to me, but I figured why not post that. I'm sure you know about my 'condition' so I don't need to answer the question.

I'm sorry to come across as being somewhat cynical but I really DO have to ask this question. WHAT - precisely - does loving God mean? I mean, how DOES one love God? What are the particular virtues of one who loves God and how is this manifested in one's daily life? I hear this statement all the time and I can't help but wonder if it's anything more than empty rhetoric for the most part.

I mean, if I see someone on the streets giving aid to a down-and-out, or someone visiting the sick and befriending a prison inmate for no other reason than they desire to help the unloved and the unloveable ...THEN I can see God working in their lives as well as their life indicating a love for God. But, generally, I just hear rather empty words when someone says "I love God."

No one should expect ANYONE ELSE to remain in a state of celibacy just because 'they say so' and they especially should not imply that remaining celibate is God's desire for someone else. THAT is playing God. That is SO wrong. Celibacy should NEVER be forced on someone.

 

[Apollo Celestio]

"I love God." to me, isn't so much a feeling but a matter of will. There are usually feelings, but I think our wills matter as much if not more. I want to serve God, I don't want to sin, I want to be like him, I want to do things FOR him. I guess you already knew that though. Celibacy and Marriage are both described as heavenly gifts.

When I said Demiurge, it is because your post reminded me of a gnostic belief that the Creator God (The God of Israel) is defined the way you put it and treated as such in Gnosticism.

 

[Kerwin]

So, God created me to be alone, depressed, to never know the joy of sharing my life with someone I love and to basically not have the wonderful relationship I currently have with another woman.

You might want to reword that since it makes you sound like you have co-dependency issues in that you need a partner so not to feel alone and depressed. If that is really how you feel then I hope you strive to address those issues. I deal with similar issues via my faith in God and the fact He has a plan for me if I chose to do His will. Sadly my faith is weak and I seem prone to stumbling.

 

[KCKID]

"I love God." to me, isn't so much a feeling but a matter of will. There are usually feelings, but I think our wills matter as much if not more. I want to serve God, I don't want to sin, I want to be like him, I want to do things FOR him. I guess you already knew that though. Celibacy and Marriage are both described as heavenly gifts.

When I said Demiurge, it is because your post reminded me of a gnostic belief that the Creator God (The God of Israel) is defined the way you put it and treated as such in Gnosticism.

So, I've learned a new word. I didn't know that my 'belief' was bordering on Gnosticism. Actually, I don't know what I believe any more. Very little about scripture seems to make sense to me any more. Five years ago or less I would not have been saying that. Something's happened and I don't believe that it has anything to do with Satan. Maybe I've become more enlightened than I was previously. Then again, maybe not. Yes, I DO ask God to help me find the truth devoid of the teachings of others that have previously influenced my thinking. I have no way of knowing where it will eventually take me.

 

[KCKID]

You might want to reword that since it makes you sound like you have co-dependency issues in that you need a partner so not to feel alone and depressed. If that is really how you feel then I hope you strive to address those issues. I deal with similar issues via my faith in God and the fact He has a plan for me if I chose to do His will. Sadly my faith is weak and I seem prone to stumbling.

I don't know about anyone else but I appreciate your honesty, Kerwin.

 

[Caylin]

Does it matter? I didn't see you objecting when the other person had a message from god.

 

[HaloHope]

You might want to reword that since it makes you sound like you have co-dependency issues in that you need a partner so not to feel alone and depressed. If that is really how you feel then I hope you strive to address those issues. I deal with similar issues via my faith in God and the fact He has a plan for me if I chose to do His will. Sadly my faith is weak and I seem prone to stumbling.

If im perfectly honest you may well be correct in the fact I have co-dependancy issues, however a lot of these stem from the fact for a certain period of my life I felt (because of who I was) that I was worthless and didnt deserve to even speak to other people. However even if I do:- In general for most people we as humans have a desire for companionship usually involving a particularly close bond with someone else who may or may not be our sexual partner too.

I think its pretty bleak thought (for me at least) that homosexuals are not able to pursue a closeness with the person they love and who loves them when hetrosexuals (within a commited relationship context at least) are free to do so. It frustrates me no end when you get obviously married people on forums going "gays need to abstain!" etc.. when they wouldnt abstain themselves as they believe their relationship has got the "God seal of approval" stamp. I just couldnt accept a loving God would enforce homosexuality as a sin to leave so many of his children to suffer and be forced into celibacy if they want to go to heaven.

If every hetrosexual on this board in a relationship could happily abandon it this instant , never enter into sexual realtions with their partner again, never kiss her/him again, never hold him/her again then Id consider the "homosexuals should carry their cross and be celibate" an acceptable one.

 

[Andreusz]

I may have to leave these forums soon. The moderators delete a lot of my posts without giving any reason. Okay, I can be sarcastic, but only in response to offensive comments by others. And posts that I consider perfectly polite get deleted as well.
I have put in complaints about other people's offensive posts, but it seems nothing is going to be done about them. I have a sense of bias here.

 

[Zaac]

Alright. I'll assume you are heterosexual. I'll assume (for argument's sake) that you're a practicing heterosexual. Would you - RIGHT NOW - be willing to remain celibate for the rest of your life for whatever reason?

Please be honest.

I am a Christian. I am a practicing Christian. I've never had sex cause I've never been married.