Gun Deaths among US Children and Teens Rose 50% in Two Years

[Ragdoll]

Be that as it may, prior to the 1960s anyone in the US could buy a firearm via mail order with no questions asked. There was far easier access to firearms then than now, and that was the case up to that point. Asking what changed is a legitimate question, for there are more restrictive laws now than then.

Back in the 1950s and 1960s there was also gun clubs in the public schools. Ironically, mass shootings was not a fad back then. An armed society is a polite society.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Back in the 1950s and 1960s there was also gun clubs in the public schools. Ironically, mass shootings was not a fad back then. An armed society is a polite society.

Right. There have been guns in this country since pioneer days. The shootings only began in the last couple decades. What changed in the people? That is the question.

 

[Hans Blaster]

If you are gonna manipulate my words and twist everything then I am done with this discussion. You said nothing worth posting comment to. Just a bunch of manupulative comments. Sorry but I have no time for that.

I didn't manipulate your words, I just responded line by line and sometimes phrase by phrase. You wondered why I wasn't reading/reply to the bulk of your posts. This illustrates why.

 

[Tuur]

Right. There have been guns in this country since pioneer days. The shootings only began in the last couple decades. What changed in the people? That is the question.

Let's really step in the fire ant mound and say what changed is the lack of religious instruction in schools. Benjamin Franklin, who was a deist, was a strong advocate of such instruction. I have a half-remembered correspondence with Thomas Paine in mind (I think it was in the wake of Paine's The Age of Reason) arguing that it instilled a sense of, well, morality, though that's not the proper word here in those for whom it wasn't evident by reason. That was quite a secular argument.

There's an even bigger fire ant mound over there, so let's stomp in that one, too: What is the possibility that the rate hasn't changed, only that they were under-reported? My mother remembers when someone she knew who opened fire in a public location after WWII, but I can't seem to find mention of it. He may have killed himself or was killed by law enforcement).

 

[Ana the Ist]

So you would protect your guns even if everyone said that was the wrong choice?

No need to reply.

Why would it matter "what everyone said"?

We are individuals, as you pointed out....and when we speak of everyone, we have inherently appealed to the average. Why should I give up my guns?

If you want to give up yours....go right ahead. No one is stopping you.

As for making this a partisan issue, I find it interesting that the big jump in ownership is from Democrats.

Liberal America is embracing firearms

The proportion of Democrats who have a gun at home has increased to 41 percent from just 33 percent in 2019.

www.newsweek.com

 

[Ana the Ist]

Well, with that logic, might as well get rid of airport security too and the TSA as a whole. And allow guns in government buildings, hospitals, and everywhere else they’re currently banned.

For that matter, under that logic, why even have police? Good people won’t need them and bad people won’t follow their authority.

Let’s just rely in untrained “good people with guns” to weed out the “bad people with guns.” I’m sure that will work out fine. As we all know, the cure for drowning is more water, so clearly, what we need here is more guns.

I suppose you support legalizing drugs as well?

 

[Tropical Wilds]

I suppose you support legalizing drugs as well?

Depends.

 

[Ana the Ist]

There is no escaping the fact many parents would rather be at work than home trying to raise their kids properly. Or already sitting at home glued to their interwebs.

The economy is not that bad. Especially considering we endured a Trump presidency and a covid pandemic back to back.

Americans need an extra $11,400 today just to afford the basics, Republican analysis finds

Compared with 2021, the typical household must spend an additional $11,434 annually just to maintain their standard of living, analysis shows.

www.google.com

If the average person needs over 10k extra a year now....compared to when this administration started....the economy is bad. That whole "Bidenomics" ploy was largely just propaganda.

The one economic metric everyone knows....even those who don't know anything about economics...is cost. The question of "what does my dollar buy"? and everyone knows that the answer is "far less than 5 years ago".

 

[Ana the Ist]

Depends.

I'm not speaking of diapers...I'm talking illegal narcotics.

 

[expos4ever]

A notable percentage were suicides (which doesn't seem to be terribly impacted by gun ownership laws, while guns certainly make suicide "easier", a number of datapoints we can cover - from a variety of countries - will show that when you remove the first easiest method, people will move onto the next easiest method)

Are you able to provide such data? I believe there is at least one study that works against the "substitution" argument. To wit:

From a Study published in the New England Journal of Medecince in 2008 (authors = Miller and Hemenway)

The empirical evidence linking suicide risk in the United States to the presence of firearms in the home is compelling. There are at least a dozen U.S. case–control studies in the peer-reviewed literature, all of which have found that a gun in the home is associated with an increased risk of suicide. The increase in risk is large, typically 2 to 10 times that in homes without guns, depending on the sample population (e.g., adolescents vs. older adults) and on the way in which the firearms were stored. The association between guns in the home and the risk of suicide is due entirely to a large increase in the risk of suicide by firearm that is not counterbalanced by a reduced risk of nonfirearm suicide. Moreover, the increased risk of suicide is not explained by increased psychopathologic characteristics, suicidal ideation, or suicide attempts among members of gun-owning households.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

I'm not speaking of diapers...I'm talking illegal narcotics.

I’m aware of what you are asking and I gave my answer. If you got from that I was talking about adult sanitary items, I don’t know what to tell you other than I was right to not to take the bait and my belief about your motivations was correct.

 

[Ana the Ist]

If reading posts here is too much for you then perhaps you need to go on Twitter and just keep to Tweet size comments. This is a forum...not the Twitter feed. Also, ad hominem attacks against me go against the rules here. You might want to read the rules over since this forum is super strict on how you reply to others.
Though as I said before, I'm not finding this new format easy for indentation. And I'm not gonna spend all day fighting with the format. But if all you have are grammar arguments then I'll take the win.

I agree...Hegel is unreadable...you're simply bad at structure. It's a discussion forum...people can adapt for the range of skill or ignore the post but leave the criticism out.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I’m aware of what you are asking and I gave my answer. If you got from that I was talking about adult sanitary items, I don’t know what to tell you other than I was right to not to take the bait and my belief about your motivations was correct.

So you're all for water as the solution to drowning in some situations.

Thanks. That's all I wanted.

 

[Brihaha]

Americans need an extra $11,400 today just to afford the basics, Republican analysis finds

Compared with 2021, the typical household must spend an additional $11,434 annually just to maintain their standard of living, analysis shows.

www.google.com

If the average person needs over 10k extra a year now....compared to when this administration started....the economy is bad. That whole "Bidenomics" ploy was largely just propaganda.

The one economic metric everyone knows....even those who don't know anything about economics...is cost. The question of "what does my dollar buy"? and everyone knows that the answer is "far less than 5 years ago".

Yet America recovered from the previous administration pandemic better than most countries in the world. Notwithstanding the Russian invasion on Ukraine, the global economy remains on track and is slowly recovering. With our United States one of the best as far as successful recoveries. We are correcting the misadventures and failure to protect America imparted upon us by the previous administration. You can't in good faith try to argue Americans aren't facing consequences from the previous failures of the Trump administration. Elections have consequences. Consequently, America's recovery was enabled by the election in 2020. Here is a fact based story on how our American economy is doing relative to the rest of the world.

I hear those Trump tax cuts expired for us serfs now. Now we go back to paying for the tax cuts for the elite class. Yay Trump. What a smooth operator lol.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/07/economy/us-economy-china-europe/index.html

 

[Tropical Wilds]

So you're all for water as the solution to drowning in some situations.

Thanks. That's all I wanted.

Thank you for 100% proving my point.

I don’t do the “have you stopped beating your wife, yes or no?” questions. You want to ask questions in such a way so as to not learn anything about the person you’re talking to, but stoke your own self-satisfaction, be my guest. I, however, am the wrong tree, so you’ll need to bark up a different one.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Back in the 1950s and 1960s there was also gun clubs in the public schools. Ironically, mass shootings was not a fad back then. An armed society is a polite society.

There was a gun club in the Florida school shooting, Parkland, and I believe the shooter was a member.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Thank you for 100% proving my point.

You don't have a point.

I don’t do the “have you stopped beating your wife, yes or no?” questions.

Asking if you support legalizing drugs is not a loaded question....there's no presumed assumptions present. You failed at this as well.

 

[Ana the Ist]

These are disposable adult clothing protection “garments” not drugs at all.

I tried to tell him.

 

[Ragdoll]

There was a gun club in the Florida school shooting, Parkland, and I believe the shooter was a member.

Yeah but wasn't that a recent shooting? I'm pretty certain that was not in the 1950s or 1960s since they didn't have mass shootings back then due to most people being Christians.

 

[Tuur]

If you want to give up yours....go right ahead. No one is stopping you.

I'll toss this out. If someone wants to research it, be my guest.

Blacks, free or slave, were prohibited from owning firearms in the US because of the fear of rebellion. This carried over into after the US Civil War. Here is a link to one paper: https://cupola.gettysburg.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1027&context=gcjcwe

Toward the end of last year, I encountered a statement of firearm confiscation on a reservation, again due to fear of an uprising. No, I don't have a link, but the wording was such that it apparently wasn't anything unusual. Worth looking into.