God preserving His Bible

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R3quiem

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Most Christians believe that God preserves the Bible from inaccuracy. That is, the Bible is entirely accurate, has no contradictions, and that all the books in the Bible are meant to be there (there are no bad books, and all of the books that should be there ARE there).

My question is this: If God does indeed preserve his word by making sure the Bible stays accurate, why does he allow other false scriptures to come into play as competitors? The biggest example would be the Quran- most Christians would agree that the Quran is a false teaching from a false prophet, yet it has over a billion followers.

It seems to me that part of preserving his word would involve making sure that false scriptures don't pop up. Why doesn't he ensure that the Bible is held as the true word, and instead allows confusion to fall in as to which one really is his true word?
 

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Good question. It's really quite amazing. God gave us the free will to either choose him or reject him. Those that reject him are of this world and will be subjected to the evil ways because they don't have the protection of the Holy Spirit. Praise the Lord that our hearts have been opened to the one true gospel.:amen::amen::amen::clap:
 
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sawdust

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Most Christians believe that God preserves the Bible from inaccuracy. That is, the Bible is entirely accurate, has no contradictions, and that all the books in the Bible are meant to be there (there are no bad books, and all of the books that should be there ARE there).

My question is this: If God does indeed preserve his word by making sure the Bible stays accurate, why does he allow other false scriptures to come into play as competitors? The biggest example would be the Quran- most Christians would agree that the Quran is a false teaching from a false prophet, yet it has over a billion followers.

It seems to me that part of preserving his word would involve making sure that false scriptures don't pop up. Why doesn't he ensure that the Bible is held as the true word, and instead allows confusion to fall in as to which one really is his true word?

Errors are allowed to exist (for a time) so that they may be seen for what they are. In so doing, not only do we learn what is wrong, we also learn what is truth and more importantly, come to learn to love truth. (if we indeed seek to have the mindset of Christ)

An example of this is here....
No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God's approval. 1Cor.11:19

Also, the Lord values freedom.
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free. Jn.8:32
So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. Jn.8:36

It is for freedom Christ died. If the Lord simply disallowed all works of error (as you suggest) it would make him a Bureaucrat. ;)

Bureaucracy is filled with all manner of stipulations that infringe upon the right of an individual to choose for himself. The Lord wants us to be mature enough to make our own decisions out of our love for Him not just because "the rule book says so."

peace
 
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E.C.

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Muhammad is a false prophet and the Koran a false book.

God allows things to happen to teach us to appreciate things and to teach us all a lesson. I think it is fair to say that God, for whatever reason unknown to us, allowed this to happen for a reason.

Bear in mind that Islam spread by "convert or the sword" tactics and still does. If there is any religion imposed on any population it is Islam.
 
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Yekcidmij

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Most Christians believe that God preserves the Bible from inaccuracy. That is, the Bible is entirely accurate, has no contradictions, and that all the books in the Bible are meant to be there (there are no bad books, and all of the books that should be there ARE there).

My question is this: If God does indeed preserve his word by making sure the Bible stays accurate, why does he allow other false scriptures to come into play as competitors? The biggest example would be the Quran- most Christians would agree that the Quran is a false teaching from a false prophet, yet it has over a billion followers.

It seems to me that part of preserving his word would involve making sure that false scriptures don't pop up. Why doesn't he ensure that the Bible is held as the true word, and instead allows confusion to fall in as to which one really is his true word?


Why doesn't He just do away with all falsehoods? Why doesn't He just do away with evil all together?
 
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sunlover1

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Most Christians believe that God preserves the Bible from inaccuracy. That is, the Bible is entirely accurate, has no contradictions, and that all the books in the Bible are meant to be there (there are no bad books, and all of the books that should be there ARE there).

My question is this: If God does indeed preserve his word by making sure the Bible stays accurate, why does he allow other false scriptures to come into play as competitors? The biggest example would be the Quran- most Christians would agree that the Quran is a false teaching from a false prophet, yet it has over a billion followers.

It seems to me that part of preserving his word would involve making sure that false scriptures don't pop up. Why doesn't he ensure that the Bible is held as the true word, and instead allows confusion to fall in as to which one really is his true word?

IMO.

God is mysterious, and He wants very much for us to
search for Him with all of our hearts.
As we search and find Him, He reveals more and more
to us.
Not something that's new, just UNcovers something
that was always there... hidden from us.


(God does hide things)
I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes:http://www.christianforums.com/newreply.php?do=postreply&t=5903537#_ftn1

And does reveal things...

I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes:http://www.christianforums.com/newreply.php?do=postreply&t=5903537#_ftn1
http://www.christianforums.com/newreply.php?do=postreply&t=5903537#_ftnref1


(have to be like a babe, open, if you want revelation)

BTW, It's not God who causes the confusion.
He's not the author of that, He gives us a sound mind.
We have the mind of Christ.

The lack is in the vessels, not the potter.

:wave:
 
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sawdust

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Why doesn't He just do away with all falsehoods? Why doesn't He just do away with evil all together?

He is .... that is why He created the Lake of Fire.

Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. Matt.25:41

The eternal fire is the "jailhouse" for evil eternally. And this is one jailhouse where there is no Rock! :D

peace
 
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R3quiem

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Thank you for your responses. I have a couple of comments.

Many of you mentioned free will. I'm glad he gave us free will, we can either join him or reject him- but it's more complicated than that. Because there is more than just one religion to agree with or reject, it's more than just "do you trust God or not?" Instead it's "which Holy Book do you think God wants you to follow?"

Is "rejecting" God the same thing as loving God and thinking you are serving God but then find out that even though you were earnestly trying to follow God and understand his teachings, you were mislead by the wrong book that you thought he authored?

And if God really is trying to teach a lesson, does he give people who try to follow him but get confused a second chance? It's not like all Muslims are war-like and nasty. I mean, if a nice, loving, kind Muslim man who loves and respects Jesus as his prophet dies, what do you think God does with him? The poor fellow tried to follow God by the way he thought was right. Does God go "Oh well, you tried but you screwed up. Into hell..."
 
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Fireinfolding

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He is .... that is why He created the Lake of Fire.

Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. Matt.25:41

The eternal fire is the "jailhouse" for evil eternally. And this is one jailhouse where there is no Rock! :D

peace

Whats interesting is that it appears that that both the law and the lake of fire were made for the same, ever notice that?
 
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E.C.

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Because there is more than just one religion to agree with or reject, it's more than just "do you trust God or not?" Instead it's "which Holy Book do you think God wants you to follow?"
Actually, in terms of Christianity vs. Islam, it is both.


R3quiem said:
And if God really is trying to teach a lesson, does he give people who try to follow him but get confused a second chance? It's not like all Muslims are war-like and nasty. I mean, if a nice, loving, kind Muslim man who loves and respects Jesus as his prophet dies, what do you think God does with him? The poor fellow tried to follow God by the way he thought was right. Does God go "Oh well, you tried but you screwed up. Into hell..."
I hope not.

God judges on a person by person basis. Not mass group of people by mass group of people basis. Only He knows people's hearts. Trust Him when He is doing His job.
 
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Hentenza

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Here is a passage from a book by Brian Edwards called "Nothing but the Truth: The inspiration, Authority, and History of the Bible"


The question of which (if any) religious text is the true word of God is of utmost importance. To avoid circular reasoning, the first question we must ask is: how would we know if God communicated in the first place? Well, God would have to communicate in a manner that people could understand, but that also means that people could make up their own messages and simply claim that they came from God. So, it seems reasonable to think that if God wanted to authenticate His communication He would have to verify it in a manner that could not be duplicated by mere humans - in other words, by miracles. This narrows the field considerably.

Beyond the evidence for the Bible's correctness (manuscript evidence) and its historicity (archeological evidence), the most important evidence is that of its inspiration. The real determination of the Bible's claim to absolute inspired truth is in its supernatural evidence, including prophecy. God used prophets to speak and write down His Word and God uses miracles like fulfilled prophecy to authenticate His messengers. For example, in Genesis 12:7, God promises that the land of Israel was to be for Abraham and his descendants. In 1948 Israel was returned back to the Jewish people for the second time in history. This may not seem so astonishing until you realize that no nation in the history of the world has been scattered from its homeland and returned! Israel has done it twice. The book of Daniel predicts with accuracy the coming of the four great kingdoms from Babylon, to Medo-Persia, to Greece, to Rome centuries before some of those kingdoms came on the scene (a time span of over 1,000 years!) with details concerning how they would rule and be broken. This includes the reigns of Alexander the Great and Antiochus Epiphanies.

In Ezekiel 26 we can see in astonishing detail how the city of Tyre was to be destroyed, how it would be torn down, and how its debris would be thrown into the sea. When Alexander the Great marched on that area, he encountered a group of people holed up in a tower on an island off the coast near there. He could not cross the sea, so he could not fight those in the tower. Rather than wait them out, the proud conqueror had his army throw stones into the sea to build a land bridge to the tower. It worked. His army crossed the sea and overthrew the occupants of the stronghold. But where did he get so much stone? The rocks that were used for the land bridge were the leftover rubble from the city of Tyre . . . its stones cast into the sea!

There are so many prophecies concerning Christ (over 270!) that it would take more than a few screens worth of space to list them all. Further, Jesus would have had no control over many of them such as His birthplace or time of birth. Second, the odds of one man accidentally fulfilling even 16 of these are 1 in 10^45. How many is that? For comparison, there are less than 10^28 atoms in the entire universe! And Jesus, who affirmed the Bible as the Word of God, proved His reliability and deity by His resurrection (an historical fact not easily ignored).

Now consider the Quran - its author, Muhammad, performed no miracles to back up his message (even when he was asked to by his followers - Sura 17:91-95; 29:47-51). Only in much later tradition (the Hadith) do any alleged miracles even show up and these are all quite fanciful (like Muhammad cutting the moon in half) and have zero reliable testimony to back them up. Further, the Quran makes clear historical errors. Muslims believe the Bible is inspired but with some errors from editing (Sura 2:136 as well as Suras 13, 16, 17, 20, 21, 23, 25). The question they cannot adequately answer is: "When was the Bible corrupted?" If they say before 600 A.D. then how can the Quran admonish believers to read it? If they claim it was after 600 A.D., then they have jumped out of the frying pan and into the fire, for we have absolutely no doubt as to the accuracy of biblical manuscripts from at least the 3rd century forward. Even if Christianity were false, the Quran still has an insurmountable problem because it makes judgments against Christians for believing things that they do not (nor have they ever) believed. For example, the Quran teaches that Christians believe the Trinity is the Father, the Mother (Mary), and the Son (Sura 5:73-75, 116), and the Quran also teaches that Christians believe that God had sex with Mary to have a son (Suras 2:116; 6:100-101; 10:68; 16:57; 19:35; 23:91; 37:149; 43:16-19). If the Quran is really from God, then it should at least be able to accurately report what Christians believe.

Joseph Smith, the author of the Book of Mormon, tried to do some miracles such as prophecy (a test for a true prophet in Deuteronomy 18:21-22) but failed several times. He foretold of Christ's second coming in History of the Church (HC) 2:382. Joseph Smith preached that the coming of the Lord would be in 56 years (about 1891). The second coming did not occur in 1891, and the Mormon Church does not claim that it did. Nor has it occurred since. He also prophesied that several cities would be destroyed in Doctrine and Covenants (D&C) 84:114-115. New York, Albany and Boston were to be destroyed if they rejected the gospel according to Smith. Joseph Smith himself went to New York, Albany, and Boston and preached there. These cities did not accept his gospel, yet they have not been destroyed. Another famous false prophecy of Joseph Smith was his "END OF ALL NATIONS" in D&C 87 concerning the rebellion of South Carolina in the war between the states. The South was supposed to call on Great Britain for aid, and as a result war would be poured out upon all nations; slaves would revolt; the inhabitants of the earth would mourn; famine, plague, earthquake, thunder, lightning, and a full end of all nations would result. The South finally did revolt in 1861, but the slaves did not rise up, war was not poured out upon all nations, there was no worldwide famine, plague, earthquake, etc., and there was no resulting "end of all nations."

The Bible so far outshines every competing source for being God's revelation that if it is not God's Word, it would seem impossible to choose among the leftovers. If the Bible is not God's Word, then we have been left with no clear criteria by which to know what might be.


Hope this helps. God Bless.
 
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R3quiem

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Actually, in terms of Christianity vs. Islam, it is both.



I hope not.

God judges on a person by person basis. Not mass group of people by mass group of people basis. Only He knows people's hearts. Trust Him when He is doing His job.
That's exactly my point- to be religious you both have to first believe if God exists, and then choose from the many religions which one is correct.

I also believe that God judges on a person-by-person basis, and that his grace covers all people who were good and loving in life. However, many Christians believe that only those who believe that Jesus is their Lord and Savior are saved, and that all others, despite being "good" are not able to be saved.
 
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E.C.

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That's exactly my point- to be religious you both have to first believe if God exists, and then choose from the many religions which one is correct.

I also believe that God judges on a person-by-person basis, and that his grace covers all people who were good and loving in life. However, many Christians believe that only those who believe that Jesus is their Lord and Savior are saved, and that all others, despite being "good" are not able to be saved.
Not necessarily on the first part. Buddhism is considered a non-theistic religion and many Chinese philosophies have nothing to do with any sort of deity.

And even then it depends on what you mean by God. The Christian God? The Muslim Allah? The Hindu Brahma? List goes on.


As for the second part, that is almost worthy of starting a thread about. Problem is it has been debated and discussed many times. But yes, since God is merciful and loving I think it is fair and accurate to say that He judges on a person by person basis.
 
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R3quiem

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Here is a passage from a book by Brian Edwards called "Nothing but the Truth: The inspiration, Authority, and History of the Bible"


The question of which (if any) religious text is the true word of God is of utmost importance. To avoid circular reasoning, the first question we must ask is: how would we know if God communicated in the first place? Well, God would have to communicate in a manner that people could understand, but that also means that people could make up their own messages and simply claim that they came from God. So, it seems reasonable to think that if God wanted to authenticate His communication He would have to verify it in a manner that could not be duplicated by mere humans - in other words, by miracles. This narrows the field considerably.

Beyond the evidence for the Bible's correctness (manuscript evidence) and its historicity (archeological evidence), the most important evidence is that of its inspiration. The real determination of the Bible's claim to absolute inspired truth is in its supernatural evidence, including prophecy. God used prophets to speak and write down His Word and God uses miracles like fulfilled prophecy to authenticate His messengers. For example, in Genesis 12:7, God promises that the land of Israel was to be for Abraham and his descendants. In 1948 Israel was returned back to the Jewish people for the second time in history. This may not seem so astonishing until you realize that no nation in the history of the world has been scattered from its homeland and returned! Israel has done it twice. The book of Daniel predicts with accuracy the coming of the four great kingdoms from Babylon, to Medo-Persia, to Greece, to Rome centuries before some of those kingdoms came on the scene (a time span of over 1,000 years!) with details concerning how they would rule and be broken. This includes the reigns of Alexander the Great and Antiochus Epiphanies.

In Ezekiel 26 we can see in astonishing detail how the city of Tyre was to be destroyed, how it would be torn down, and how its debris would be thrown into the sea. When Alexander the Great marched on that area, he encountered a group of people holed up in a tower on an island off the coast near there. He could not cross the sea, so he could not fight those in the tower. Rather than wait them out, the proud conqueror had his army throw stones into the sea to build a land bridge to the tower. It worked. His army crossed the sea and overthrew the occupants of the stronghold. But where did he get so much stone? The rocks that were used for the land bridge were the leftover rubble from the city of Tyre . . . its stones cast into the sea!

There are so many prophecies concerning Christ (over 270!) that it would take more than a few screens worth of space to list them all. Further, Jesus would have had no control over many of them such as His birthplace or time of birth. Second, the odds of one man accidentally fulfilling even 16 of these are 1 in 10^45. How many is that? For comparison, there are less than 10^28 atoms in the entire universe! And Jesus, who affirmed the Bible as the Word of God, proved His reliability and deity by His resurrection (an historical fact not easily ignored).

Now consider the Quran - its author, Muhammad, performed no miracles to back up his message (even when he was asked to by his followers - Sura 17:91-95; 29:47-51). Only in much later tradition (the Hadith) do any alleged miracles even show up and these are all quite fanciful (like Muhammad cutting the moon in half) and have zero reliable testimony to back them up. Further, the Quran makes clear historical errors. Muslims believe the Bible is inspired but with some errors from editing (Sura 2:136 as well as Suras 13, 16, 17, 20, 21, 23, 25). The question they cannot adequately answer is: "When was the Bible corrupted?" If they say before 600 A.D. then how can the Quran admonish believers to read it? If they claim it was after 600 A.D., then they have jumped out of the frying pan and into the fire, for we have absolutely no doubt as to the accuracy of biblical manuscripts from at least the 3rd century forward. Even if Christianity were false, the Quran still has an insurmountable problem because it makes judgments against Christians for believing things that they do not (nor have they ever) believed. For example, the Quran teaches that Christians believe the Trinity is the Father, the Mother (Mary), and the Son (Sura 5:73-75, 116), and the Quran also teaches that Christians believe that God had sex with Mary to have a son (Suras 2:116; 6:100-101; 10:68; 16:57; 19:35; 23:91; 37:149; 43:16-19). If the Quran is really from God, then it should at least be able to accurately report what Christians believe.

Joseph Smith, the author of the Book of Mormon, tried to do some miracles such as prophecy (a test for a true prophet in Deuteronomy 18:21-22) but failed several times. He foretold of Christ's second coming in History of the Church (HC) 2:382. Joseph Smith preached that the coming of the Lord would be in 56 years (about 1891). The second coming did not occur in 1891, and the Mormon Church does not claim that it did. Nor has it occurred since. He also prophesied that several cities would be destroyed in Doctrine and Covenants (D&C) 84:114-115. New York, Albany and Boston were to be destroyed if they rejected the gospel according to Smith. Joseph Smith himself went to New York, Albany, and Boston and preached there. These cities did not accept his gospel, yet they have not been destroyed. Another famous false prophecy of Joseph Smith was his "END OF ALL NATIONS" in D&C 87 concerning the rebellion of South Carolina in the war between the states. The South was supposed to call on Great Britain for aid, and as a result war would be poured out upon all nations; slaves would revolt; the inhabitants of the earth would mourn; famine, plague, earthquake, thunder, lightning, and a full end of all nations would result. The South finally did revolt in 1861, but the slaves did not rise up, war was not poured out upon all nations, there was no worldwide famine, plague, earthquake, etc., and there was no resulting "end of all nations."

The Bible so far outshines every competing source for being God's revelation that if it is not God's Word, it would seem impossible to choose among the leftovers. If the Bible is not God's Word, then we have been left with no clear criteria by which to know what might be.


Hope this helps. God Bless.
That was a very good post. Sounds like a good book.

I believe that the Bible is the true holy book. You say that it would be impossible to choose from the leftovers, and yet two thirds of the world DO choose the leftovers.
 
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R3quiem

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Not necessarily on the first part. Buddhism is considered a non-theistic religion and many Chinese philosophies have nothing to do with any sort of deity.

And even then it depends on what you mean by God. The Christian God? The Muslim Allah? The Hindu Brahma? List goes on.


As for the second part, that is almost worthy of starting a thread about. Problem is it has been debated and discussed many times. But yes, since God is merciful and loving I think it is fair and accurate to say that He judges on a person by person basis.
Buddhism is a non-theistic religion, that's true. Most of it's teachings on moral behavior line up exactly with Christian teachings, so it's quite a fine religion/philosophy. However, the two don't mold together perfectly because their core principals are different. One believes in a God that judges after this life, the other believes in reincarnation and no omnipotent deity.

I guess we shouldn't be debating though- the two of us have the same overall conclusion.
 
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Hentenza

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That was a very good post. Sounds like a good book.

I believe that the Bible is the true holy book. You say that it would be impossible to choose from the leftovers, and yet two thirds of the world DO choose the leftovers.

Yes, I know. Jesus also said in Matthew 9:37 "37Then he said to his disciples, "The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few."
 
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R3quiem

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Yes, I know. Jesus also said in Matthew 9:37 "37Then he said to his disciples, "The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few."
Let me ask you this. What do you think happens to good people of other religions. Do you think God allows his grace to cover their sins even though they didn't believe Jesus was God?

Example: A kind, loving muslim man. He grows up studying the Quran and trying to do what God wants. He raises a good family, teachings his kids to be moral and to always do the right thing, etc. He is in most ways what we would call "good". Do you think he goes to hell when he dies? He loved and respected Jesus as a prophet, but was always taught that he was only a prophet, not God.

Another example: Gandhi. He was raised as a hindu. He studied the Bible, and said that he considered Jesus one of his greatest teachers. He lived in a way that Jesus clearly would have approved of, but he didn't believe Jesus was God. Gandhi taught non-violent protests, he starved himself for his people. Do you think God allowed him to go to hell because of what he was taught?
 
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Apollo Celestio

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To believe is what saves us! If that guy was a good muslim, well, he wouldn't be very peaceful. The way I see it, for those who know who Jesus was and had the chances to get to know him and refused it, are done for. But those who never had a chance, I'd hope they'd be judged by the law that is written on all of our hearts by God.
 
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E.C.

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To believe is what saves us! If that guy was a good muslim, well, he wouldn't be very peaceful.
Call me crazy, but that is actually a very bigoted statement.

It states that all Muslims to be good are supposed to be war-mongering extremists.
Now, let's change one thing here: replace Muslims with Germans.

With this sort of logic, extreme prejudice and extreme generalization, one can also say that for all Germans to be good, they must be genocide committing Nazis.
 
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Originally Posted by Hentenza
Here is a passage from a book by Brian Edwards called "Nothing but the Truth: The inspiration, Authority, and History of the Bible"
Sounds like a good book but even without reading, I know the Bible is Inspired .

Btw, an atheist started a thread on Christianity and the "resurrection". I said if the "resurrection" didn't/doesn't happen then the Whole Bible fails and that would include Islam and Judaism. Thoughts?

http://www.christianforums.com/t5904757-the-resurrection.html

The Resurrection

How do you know it happened? Without it Christianity crumbles.
 
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