Gay Christians: give it up

[KCKID]

bbw, it is a Biblical Fact.
No place in the Bible does God refer to marriage as between two men.

The Bible is a book of guidelines and was/is not intended to be used as a rule book. YOU - and others on this subforum - are using it for this purpose. There ARE, however, a number of COMMANDMENTS of God which most Christians no longer care about. Why don't you target these 'commandment-breakers'?

God explicitly refers to marital relations as between a man and a woman and condemns all sexual relationships outside of marriage.

Marriage appears to have been a rather 'clinical' affair and was intended for procreation of the human species. NATURALLY the God who commanded people to go forth and be fruitful would have used male and female as the norm. How come you 'hardliners' always ignore this GLARING fact? Homosexuals have no part in the 'procreation' part of a marital union and there is no law - scripturally or otherwise - that one HAS to procreate. So, I would suggest that you mind your own business as to who is attracted to whom and what they as two consenting adults decide to do with regard to marriage.

It's easy, isn't it, when you really think about it?

Since marriage is not ordained between two men, all sexual relationships outside of marriage are sin.

Don't take it so personally, texastig. Surely you have more to worry about than two people getting hitched ...?

Remember Biblical Facts.

Mar 10:6
But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.

Mar 10:7
For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;

Gen 2:24
Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

Mar 10:9
What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

Well, there goes thousands of heterosexuals! Should we have a mass stoning event?

I've addressed the above more times than I would have cared to. Still, since you brought up the 'remember' part ...God asked that we 'remember' the Creation Sabbath but few do. Christians are a forgetful bunch when it's convenient . . .

bbw,

It is not natural for gays and lesbians to be just what they are. It is sin and sin mars the reality of what is right.

Few Christians, if any, do right consistently, texastig. That includes you, I'm sure. In fact, I'm sure that you will break at least ONE commandment this coming weekend.

Being able to quote scriptures of condemnation do not a Christian make. So, what are you trying to say?

 

[chestertonrules]

People talk as if Gay Marriage is like the master sin or something. Ignoring the fact that you sin many many times a day and ALL PEOPLE should repent! You must also love your fellow man as Jesus commands!

Peace

The difference is, we acknowledge that we have sinned.

We are all sinners, but we don't claim that our sins are not really sins.

Make sense?

 

[Jase]

People talk as if Gay Marriage is like the master sin or something. Ignoring the fact that you sin many many times a day and ALL PEOPLE should repent! You must also love your fellow man as Jesus commands!

Peace

Yeah, quite odd how sexual orientation has become the "new" unpardonable sin, and therefore conservative Christians feel it their duty to condemn all gays, so as to not let them commit the worst sin ever!

 

[&Abel]

The difference is, we acknowledge that we have sinned.

We are all sinners, but we don't claim that our sins are not really sins.

Make sense?

well said

 

[Jase]

The difference is, we acknowledge that we have sinned.

We are all sinners, but we don't claim that our sins are not really sins.

Make sense?

You seem to have no problem with judging and condemning others to not be a sin. We call that a double standard, fyi.

 

[KCKID]

People talk as if Gay Marriage is like the master sin or something. Ignoring the fact that you sin many many times a day and ALL PEOPLE should repent! You must also love your fellow man as Jesus commands!

Peace

Precisely. I'm almost at the point in this entire series of debates where I oftentimes feel somewhat embarrassed to continue. I prefer to debate matters that are REALLY an issue, unlike this particular one. This topic simply enables some Christians to present themselves in a grandiloquent manner. One might be forgiven for thinking that THEY believe they are God. The issue is often more about THEM than homosexuality.

Jesus was cool with homosexuals. He affirms this by His silence on the topic. We really DO need to follow suit.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

It is not natural for gays and lesbians to be just what they are.

I wish someone could provide me a working definition of what the anti-homosexual means by the word "natural"?

 

[*Starlight*]

These are the facts. Gay Christians: give it up.

No, these are not facts, there are your personal beliefs. In the same way, someone could say:

Mohammed was God's prophet. This is a fact. Christians, give it up.
Penguins can fly. This is a fact. If you believe they can't fly, give it up.
The Earth is flat. This is a fact. If you think it's not, give it up.

And this could go on forever... and the point is that even though you keep saying "this is a fact", it doesn't mean that you're right.

 

[Cassiopeia]

Having a particular belief or practicing a specific religion does not entitle us to tell others what to do nor does it sanctify our beliefs as fact or absolute truth. Belief is what we think is true.

The text held to be sacred (the Holy Bible) was written by men who felt inspired to share what they thought to be God's laws but nothing is clear cut.

But if you are to hold to Jesus' teachings you will not abuse those you hold to be living in sin but rather you will embrace them and make a place for them should they decide to join you.

 

[wayseer]

Sex has two purposes: to seal the binding God-given covenant between a man and a women, and to reproduce.

So I guess reproduction outside of sex is off limits also.

 

[brightmorningstar]

I fully agree with Forgiven and Redeemed’s post #13. Jesus was angry with the Pharisees because they should have known better, I mean even to Nicodemus He said ‘you are Israel’s teacher and you don’t know this’ They claimed to be believers and followers of God yet they disputed what Jesus sad. Gay Christian is an oxymoron, Christians should know better that God created male and female to be united and same sex unions are not only not countenanced but are condemned as error and indecent.

I think what KCKID has written, whilst a good summary of what one side of the debate are saying, nevertheless presents a fundamental issue.

Four problems here. Firstly sexual orientation is not a sin. Two, you are casting stones at others as if you yourself are not a sinner. Three, Jesus had NOTHING to say about homosexuality. Four, you appear to be guilty of the sin of pride.

So, I have no idea where you're coming from preaching 'the condemning word of God' to others.

Firstly, Forgiven and Redeemed made no reference to KCKID or any person, yet KCID has responded with a direct judgement of Forgiven and Redeemed as guilty of the sin of pride.
Secondly, I can see Forgiven and Redeemed knows Jesus Christ came to save the world not condemn it, yet KCKID believes what he is saying is condemnation.
We have two very different and fundamentally opposing worldviews here. And I have no doubt they are not both Christian worldviews.

1 John 1:10 “If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.”
1 John 2:4 “The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him.”
1 John 4:20 “If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen.”

I think anyone who claims to believe and disputes what Jesus said and claims to be a follower is a liar, I don’t think this applies to non believers, I think this is a warning for all us who claim to be believers. I believe that includes me and all the sin that the Bible which says this describes as sin.
I believe the Bible is clear that same sex unions are against God’s creation purpose for man and woman and condemned as error and sin Genesis 2, 19, Lev 18, 20, Matthew 19, Mark 10, Ephesians 5, 1 Corinthians 6-7, 1 Timothy 1, Romans 1, 2 Peter 2, Jude 1. just for the main passages.

 

[tulc]

I think anyone who claims to believe and disputes what Jesus said and claims to be a follower is a liar,

Can you point to where someone disputed what Jesus said about gay marriage?
tulc(just so we can understand what you're talking about)

 

[Forgiven_and_Redeemed]

Infertile heterosexuals don’t reproduce…are they un-natural? Or is it somehow “different” and you want to apply fertility only to minorities?

Sex has two puropses - to seal the God-given covenant between a man and a woman and to reproduce. Infertile couples are renewing their binding matrimonial sacrament every time they have sex. They are certainly not sinning. Reproduction has more purposes than just procreation - it reconnects a husband and wife in a sacred way; it brings the couple closer together and makes them more intimate. That's why it's not allowed outside of marriage - you have to give yourself totally to one special person!

So I guess reproduction outside of sex is off limits also.

That's not what I said.

 

[*Starlight*]

Reproduction has more purposes than just procreation - it reconnects a husband and wife in a sacred way; it brings the couple closer together and makes them more intimate. That's why it's not allowed outside of marriage - you have to give yourself totally to one special person!

And it's exactly the same in homosexual couples.

 

[HaloHope]

That's why it's not allowed outside of marriage - you have to give yourself totally to one special person!

I have given myself totally to one special person, that person just happens to be the same gender as me.

 

[Forgiven_and_Redeemed]

And it's exactly the same in homosexual couples.

No, it's not, because it isn't within marriage.

I have given myself totally to one special person, that person just happens to be the same gender as me.

...which is sinful because you're not married to this girl and you never will be.

 

[catlover]

No, it's not, because it isn't within marriage.



...which is sinful because you're not married to this girl and you never will be.

How do you know who she is married to? She may live in a country where bigots are allowed to discriminate against people through public policy.

 

[Forgiven_and_Redeemed]

How do you know who she is married to?

Because marriage is between one man and one woman. Is she married to a man? God, in his word, mentioned many, many things. Look through the Leviticus laws, and when he comes to things like sex and murder, He mentions what to do in many possible situations. You'd think, with this much detail, at least once in the Bible He would mention marriage between two men or two women? Once? Just once? Come back to me when you find any such passage. I don't think you'll ever find it.

Oh and by the way, I think the Bible is the innerant word of God. You can't be actively gay and believe the Bible is the word of God.

 

[pgp_protector]

Because marriage is between one man and one woman. Is she married to a man? God, in his word, mentioned many, many things. Look through the Leviticus laws, and when he comes to things like sex and murder, He mentions what to do in many possible situations. You'd think, with this much detail, at least once in the Bible He would mention marriage between two men or two women? Once? Just once? Come back to me when you find any such passage. I don't think you'll ever find it.

Oh and by the way, I think the Bible is the innerant word of God. You can't be actively gay and believe the Bible is the word of God.

That's the Biblical Definition of Marriage, not the Legal Definition.
Are you saying we should go by the way God designed it in the "Garden Of Edin ? " (Incest & All ??? )

 

[Forgiven_and_Redeemed]

^ We Christians have a duty to show you our side as well. We cannot stand by and let gays get legal recognition for their "relationships". It's something we just can't do.

That's the Biblical Definition of Marriage, not the Legal Definition.
Are you saying we should go by the way God designed it in the "Garden Of Edin ? " (Incest & All ??? )

No incest occurred in the Garden of Edin [sic].