From Gods Tables of Stone to the Fleshy Tables in our Hearts

oikonomia

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Because you don't believe the righteousness actually enables us to obey. You believe it happens externally to the individual.
So you cannot produce any quotations to back up such charges.
Your false charges at best are just your bad misunderstanding of passages I've used here.

Case in point: Paul's words "fulfilled in us" is not external to the individual.

That the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us,
who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the spirit. (Rom. 4:4)
 
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Gary K

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So you cannot produce any quotations to back up such charges.
Your false charges at best are just your bad misunderstanding of passages I've used here.

Case in point: Paul's words "fulfilled in us" is not external to the individual.

That the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us,
who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the spirit. (Rom. 4:4)
You don't seem to understand the things you say. You told me a religious person cannot keep God's law. Why not? Only a religious person has any interest in God and has any opportunity for a relationship with Him, and only the presence of the HS in the life enables a person to keep the law. Therefore you believe everything takes place externally to the believer.

Ezekiel 36: 25 ¶ Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Why a heart of flesh? Because it is soft and pliable so God can mold and shape it.

This promise is no different than Galatians 5: 21, 22.
 
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oikonomia

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You don't seem to understand the things you say. You told me a religious person cannot keep God's law. Why not?
The problem is your misunderstanding of what I meant by "a religious person". And I will take some responsibility for
not being clearer about the phrase "religious person."

"A religious person" as I use it means any person trying to do something for God but without Christ.

Take Saul of Tarsus, a Pharisee of Pharisees, educated under great rabbi Gamaliel, and towards many of his
contemporaries was considered "blameless" about the Torah (Phil. 3;6). He is my prime example of what I mean by "a religious person".

Romans chapter seven outlines his religious experience. Go read about his dedication, zeal, effort to keep the law of God.
He ends his little biography there with the realization of his failure to keep the law.

For I delight in the law of God according to the inner man, (v. 22)
Because of his religion he thoroughly delights in the law. He loved the law and his conscience "the inner man" tells him that the law is totally right.

But I see a different law in my members, warring against the law of my mind and making me a captive to the law of sin which is in my members.
In spite of his knowing that the law is holy, and the commandment holy and righteous and good (v.7)
a stronger power in his fallen body's members thwarted his best effort at law keeping.

Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from the body of this death? (v.8)
The outcome of his religious zeal is self condemnation and feeling of hopeless failure - wretchedness.
Let alone he also is guilty before God.


Thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ our Lord! (v.9a)
He discoved that his salvation from this wretched religious futility is the living Lord Jesus Christ.
News flash - Jesus is not a religion.

So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh, the law of sin. (v.9b)
This is a summary of chapter 7. It leads the way to a entirely INTERNAL salvation in he and us by the Spirit of life.
What could be more subjective to us than the divine life of the Spirit of life of Christ living within?

There is now then no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus.
For the law of the Spirit of life has freed me in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and of death. (Rom. 8:1,2)


So I use the phrase "a religious person" to mean a zealous and dedicated person working for God yet without
the Spirit of life.

To be fair I know James uses the term "religion" in a positive way. (James 1:27) Or he says "true religion."
I am not going to go into his epistle now. If you want you should now see what I meant by "a religious person."
And Romans 8 as a rejoinder to chapter 7 is subjective and inward salvation of the Person Christ's life as reality rather than religion as I
use it.

Do you think God is a God of religion or a God of reality?

Only a religious person has any interest in God and has any opportunity for a relationship with Him, and only the presence of the HS in the life enables a person to keep the law. Therefore you believe everything takes place externally to the believer.
Paul's attitude about his past "religious" life was that it was all dung - dog food - refuse compared to knowing the internal
grace of Christ. He counted all his past religious accolades as loss in comparison to Christ living in him.

If any other man thinks that he has confidence in the flesh, I more: (Phil. 3:4b)
He had more reason to boast of his religiousness than anyone.

Circumcised the eighth day; of the race of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew born of Hebrews; as to the law, a Pharisee; (v.5)
He brags about his religios pedigree.

As to zeal, persecuting the church; as to the righteousness which is in the law, become blameless. (v.6)

But what things were gains to me, these I have counted as loss on account of Christ. (v.7)

But moreover I also count all things to be loss on account of the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, on account of whom I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as refuse that I may gain Christ - (v.8)


This religious zealot counts all his past religion not worthy to compare with the INTERNAL knowing of Christ.
His only desire now is to
GAIN more and more and more of Christ. His whole being is open for one thing - for Christ's life
to encrease, grow, and spread into all of his personality. He would forever only wish men would find him
"in Christ."

And be found in Him, not having my own righteousness which is out of the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is out of God and based on faith, (v.9)

Ezekiel 36: 25 ¶ Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
So you are saying what I am saying in Romans chapter 8.
For the law of the Spirit of life has freed me in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and of death. (Rom. 8:2)

I use "religious person" to mean a person outside of this experience yet seeks to keep the law of God as Paul TRIED in chapter 7.

Mind you he appeared to many of his colleagues to be successful. They thought "Now this religious Jew is blameless about the Torah."
But he knew he could not overcome coveting and therefore breaking the 10th commandment.

What then shall we say? Is the law sin? Absolutely not! But I did not know sin except through the law; for neither did I know coveting, except the law had said, “You shall not covet.” (v.6)

But sin, seizing the opportunity through the commandment, worked out in me coveting of every kind; for without the law sin is dead. (Rom. 7:7,8)


And James rightly says - For whoever keeps the whole law yet stumbles in one point has become guilty of all. (James 2:10)
So you should know now what I meant by a religious person cannot keep the law.

Why a heart of flesh? Because it is soft and pliable so God can mold and shape it.
That's right. This is very internal is it not?
My children, with whom I travail again in birth until Christ is formed in you, (Gal. 4:19)
This promise is no different than Galatians 5: 21, 22.
Notice that one of the fruits of the Spirit is "self-control".
But the fruit of the Spirit is . . . Meekness, self-control; against such things there is no law. (Gal. 5:23)


So to walk in the Spirit of the resurrected Christ is to gain also "self-control". This along with the other
fruits are very internal,very subjective, very enjoyable in an inward way.


So you characterization of me saying something like Christ's salvation is all outward is wrong.
But you may double down and still insist on your error that I teach only an outward, non-internal salvation.
I'm clear though.

If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. (v. 25)

This is thoroughly internal and will be manifested one day as glory from within us.
To whom God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory, (Col. 1:27)
 
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oikonomia

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This significant passage shows the difference with Christ between religion and reality.

For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall by no means enter into the kingdom of the heavens. (Matt. 5:20)

 
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Gary K

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This significant passage shows the difference with Christ between religion and reality.

For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall by no means enter into the kingdom of the heavens. (Matt. 5:20)
So? That verse doesn't even mention religion. It speaks to righteousness, holiness. Holiness is being God like. In other words, just what I've been saying. If we are holy we are keeping the law of God.

1John 1: 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
 
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oikonomia

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So we must be saved from all facade, hypocrisy, legalism, and having the form of godliness by denying its life power.

But know this, that in the last days difficult times will come. For men will be . . . Having an outward form of godliness, though denying its power; from these also turn away. (See 2 Tim. 3:1-5)

I am still in the process of being saved from being religious (in this sense).

That verse doesn't even mention religion.
You don't see it but many do - "unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees,"
It speaks to righteousness, holiness. Holiness is being God like. In other words, just what I've been saying. If we are holy we are keeping the law of God.
There is a holiness of being in a holy position objectively.
And there is the holiness of God dispensing His life and nature into man.

Subjective sanctification - being made holy - is by God imparting Himself into the saved as their life.
And you still have no demostrated that I teach Christ's saving is purely outward.

These verses on holiness are very internal. In other words these verses on holiness is about
man moving toward being saturated and permeated inwardly with God's holy life, nature, and expression from within -
from the center to the circumference.

2 Cor. 7:1 - Therefore since we have these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all defilement of flesh and of spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Jude 1:20 - But you, beloved, building up yourselves upon your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit,


1 Cor. 3:16,17 - Do you not know that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
If anyone destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him; for the temple of God is holy, and such are you.


1 Cor. 6:19 - Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?

Eph. 1:4 - Even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and without blemish before Him in love,

1John 1: 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
I don't believe something extra to the new covenant.
Maybe you don't believe enough of it and should believe more.

First John 1:9 is about the cleansing of our record of sinning which is before God and in our conscience.
Surely that is a part of the Gospel of the new covenant.

John goes on to speak of the teaching of the divine anointing, the divine birth, the divine fellowship, abiding in the divine life, the divine
seed implanted into Christians, becomming as His is in this world, the divine love flowing between the divinely born and growing children of
the begetting divine Father, and the Triune God Himself being the eternal life.

These are all in addition to being forgiven through confession of our sins.
I don't add something extra to the new covenant.
Maybe you don't believe enough of it.

At any rate your false accusation crashes and burns in light of the word of God.
In addition to Him not remembering our sins and inisquities any more there is the internal
"organic" matter of Christ mingling with our life inwardly and internally for a "much more" salvation "in His life."

For if we, being enemies, were reconciled to God through the death of His Son,
much more we will be saved in His life, having been reconciled, (Rom. 5:10)
 
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Gary K

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So we must be saved from all facade, hypocrisy, legalism, and having the form of godliness by denying its life power.

But know this, that in the last days difficult times will come. For men will be . . . Having an outward form of godliness, though denying its power; from these also turn away. (See 2 Tim. 3:1-5)

I am still in the process of being saved from being religious (in this sense).


You don't see it but many do - "unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees,"

There is a holiness of being in a holy position objectively.
And there is the holiness of God dispensing His life and nature into man.

Subjective sanctification - being made holy - is by God imparting Himself into the saved as their life.
And you still have no demostrated that I teach Christ's saving is purely outward.

These verses on holiness are very internal. In other words these verses on holiness is about
man moving toward being saturated and permeated inwardly with God's holy life, nature, and expression from within -
from the center to the circumference.

2 Cor. 7:1 - Therefore since we have these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all defilement of flesh and of spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Jude 1:20 - But you, beloved, building up yourselves upon your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit,


1 Cor. 3:16,17 - Do you not know that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
If anyone destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him; for the temple of God is holy, and such are you.


1 Cor. 6:19 - Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?

Eph. 1:4 - Even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and without blemish before Him in love,


I don't believe something extra to the new covenant.
You do not believe enough.

First John 1:9 is about the cleansing of our record of sinning which is before God and in our conscience.
Surely that is a part of the Gospel of the new covenant.

John goes on to speak of the teaching of the divine anointing, the divine birth, the divine fellowship, abiding in the divine life, the divine
seed implanted into Christians, becomming as His is in this world, the divine love flowing between the divinely born and growing children of

the begetting divine Father, and the Triune God Himself being the eternal life.

These are all in addition to being forgiven through confession of our sins.
I don't add something extra to the new covenant.
Maybe you don't believe enough of it.

At any rate your false accusation crashes and burns in light of the word of God.
In addition to Him not remembering our sins and inisquities any more there is the internal
"organic" matter of Christ mingling with our life inwardly and internally for a "much more" salvation "in His life."

For if we, being enemies, were reconciled to God through the death of His Son,
much more we will be saved in His life, having been reconciled, (Rom. 5:10)
So God cannot cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Once again you agree with my take on your position that sin is more powerful than than God and He cannot cleanse us from sin for sin is unrighteousness.

Justification is external to us. Your beliefs deny the internal cleansing of sin.
 
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oikonomia

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So God cannot cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Once again you agree with my take on your position that sin is more powerful than than God and He cannot cleanse us from sin for sin is unrighteousness.

Justification is external to us. Your beliefs deny the internal cleansing of sin.
I am very careful about what I write. I wrote this - [my emphasis]

"First John 1:9 is about the cleansing of our record of sinning which is before God and in our conscience.
Surely that is a part of the Gospel of the new covenant."

Because you are desperate to hold on to your false accusation you were blinded to see the internal nature of this cleansing.

"before God and in our conscience."
And "in our conscience" is the internal work of the Spirit.

Go right ahead and double down and continue your false charge.
If you want to make a fool of yourself - go ahead.
 
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Gary K

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I am very careful about what I write. I wrote this - [my emphasis]

"First John 1:9 is about the cleansing of our record of sinning which is before God and in our conscience.
Surely that is a part of the Gospel of the new covenant."

Because you are desperate to hold on to your false accusation you were blinded to see the internal nature of this cleansing.

"before God and in our conscience."
And "in our conscience" is the internal work of the Spirit.

Go right ahead and double down and continue your false charge.
If you want to make a fool of yourself - go ahead.
To cleanse us from all sin is to overcome our desire to sin. Only God can do this in us. God doesn't magically cleanse our conscience from guilt while we continue to sin. That is called presumption. To have a clean conscience means our behavior has changed through the power of God.
 
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