From Gods Tables of Stone to the Fleshy Tables in our Hearts

[reddogs]

As Israel was freed from the slavery of Egypt, all of spiritual Israel have been saved from the bondage of sin by Christ and are given the tablets which go into their hearts.

Deuteronomy 5
The Ten Commandments
1 Moses summoned all Israel and said:
Hear, O Israel, the decrees and laws I declare in your hearing today. Learn them and be sure to follow them. 2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. 3 It was not with our fathers that the LORD made this covenant, but with us, with all of us who are alive here today. 4 The LORD spoke to you face to face out of the fire on the mountain. 5 (At that time I stood between the LORD and you to declare to you the word of the LORD, because you were afraid of the fire and did not go up the mountain.) And he said:
6 "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
7 "You shall have no other gods before [a] me.
8 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 9 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 10 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.
11 "You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.
12 "Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as the LORD your God has commanded you. 13 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 14 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your ox, your donkey or any of your animals, nor the alien within your gates, so that your manservant and maidservant may rest, as you do. 15 Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the LORD your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the LORD your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.
16 "Honor your father and your mother, as the LORD your God has commanded you, so that you may live long and that it may go well with you in the land the LORD your God is giving you.
17 "You shall not murder.
18 "You shall not commit adultery.
19 "You shall not steal.
20 "You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.
21 "You shall not covet your neighbor's wife. You shall not set your desire on your neighbor's house or land, his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor." 22 These are the commandments the LORD proclaimed in a loud voice to your whole assembly there on the mountain from out of the fire, the cloud and the deep darkness; and he added nothing more. Then he wrote them on two stone tablets and gave them to me.

When we see the Law, then look at Jesus, we see Him fulfilling the letter and the spirit of the Law, by Loving God and His neighbor according to the the Commandments which are the two principle's they break down to.
Matthew 22:36-40
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

So what does the Bible say about the application of God's Law in the heart of a Christian?

2 Corinthians 3:2, 3
2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men: 3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

Hebrews 10:16
This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

Which was what He intended..

Jeremiah 31:33
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

The Law of God, instead of being done away with, is being brought to life. God's Law was never done away with, not a jot or a tittle. Jesus had it in the fleshy table of His heart too, and He kept it perfectly.

 

[daq]

As Israel was freed from the slavery of Egypt, all of spiritual Israel have been saved from the bondage of sin by Christ and are given the tablets which go into their hearts.

Deuteronomy 5
The Ten Commandments
1 Moses summoned all Israel and said:
Hear, O Israel, the decrees and laws I declare in your hearing today. Learn them and be sure to follow them. 2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. 3 It was not with our fathers that the LORD made this covenant, but with us, with all of us who are alive here today. 4 The LORD spoke to you face to face out of the fire on the mountain. 5 (At that time I stood between the LORD and you to declare to you the word of the LORD, because you were afraid of the fire and did not go up the mountain.) And he said:
6 "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
7 "You shall have no other gods before [a] me.
8 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 9 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 10 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.
11 "You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.
12 "Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as the LORD your God has commanded you. 13 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 14 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your ox, your donkey or any of your animals, nor the alien within your gates, so that your manservant and maidservant may rest, as you do. 15 Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the LORD your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the LORD your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.
16 "Honor your father and your mother, as the LORD your God has commanded you, so that you may live long and that it may go well with you in the land the LORD your God is giving you.
17 "You shall not murder.
18 "You shall not commit adultery.
19 "You shall not steal.
20 "You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.
21 "You shall not covet your neighbor's wife. You shall not set your desire on your neighbor's house or land, his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor." 22 These are the commandments the LORD proclaimed in a loud voice to your whole assembly there on the mountain from out of the fire, the cloud and the deep darkness; and he added nothing more. Then he wrote them on two stone tablets and gave them to me.

When we see the Law, then look at Jesus, we see Him fulfilling the letter and the spirit of the Law, by Loving God and His neighbor according to the the Commandments which are the two principle's they break down to.
Matthew 22:36-40
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

So what does the Bible say about the application of God's Law in the heart of a Christian?

2 Corinthians 3:2, 3
2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men: 3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

Hebrews 10:16
This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

Which was what He intended..

Jeremiah 31:33
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

The Law of God, instead of being done away with, is being brought to life. God's Law was never done away with, not a jot or a tittle. Jesus had it in the fleshy table of His heart too, and He kept it perfectly.

Amen!

I would just like to toss in a side note a little further beyond your quote from Deuteronomy 5.
Note the companion passage from Exodus 20 and put them together:

Exodus 20:24
24 An altar of adamah shall you make unto Me, and shall sacrifice thereon your ascending offerings, and your peace offerings, your flock, and your herd: in all places where I record My name I will come unto you, and I will bless you.

Companion statement:

Deuteronomy 5:29
29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear Me, and keep all My commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

adamah = soil (the soil of the heart, parable of the sower)
altar of adamah = the altar of the heart
ascending offerings = prayers ~ Rev 8:1-4
"all places where I record My name" ~ Isa 56:4-7, Rev 3:12-13, (and Rev 14:1)

 

[trophy33]

You seem to believe that the same commandments written in the old stone were transplanted into our hearts and the only thing that changed is the medium.

However, thats not what the apostles taught. We live in a new way:

"But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way
of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code."
R 7:6

The law is done with:

"So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another"
R 7:4

And what was carved in the stone, came to its end:

Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory...
For if what was being brought to an end came with glory, much more will what is permanent have glory.
2 Cor 3:7,11

 

[HIM]

As Israel was freed from the slavery of Egypt, all of spiritual Israel have been saved from the bondage of sin by Christ and are given the tablets which go into their hearts.

Good post and happy Sabbath. So the big argument even among those here who agree with your post is which laws. Some say the Ten, some say all. And some say some of the all. The thing is God did not leave us in respect to our own wisdom in this. Deut. 29:1 tells us that God had a second covenant besides the one at Horeb that He was making with the children of Israel before they entered the promised land. Deut.. 30:10-14 give us the details. We are to hearken unto the voice of the Lord our God. Keep His commandments and statutes contained in the Book of the Law. Judgements is not mentioned here just the commandments and statutes contained in the Book of the Law.

Why does He say that we are to keep His commandments and statutes contained in the Book of the Law and not the judgments?

Because He goes on to say that this commandment to keep His commandments and statutes contained in the Book of the Law is not far from us. But this Word is in our hearts and in our mouths to do it. Not the Judgements contained in the Book of the Law but The commandments and statutes. Not those judgments that admonished and condemned us when we sinned for they are not necessary. For His Word is in our heart and mouth to do it. (see Rom. 10:4-8 where it is paraphrased for out learning) Or as Jeremiah Put it and you so astutely quoted in His giving of this new covenant again due to our stiff necks and hard hearts. WHerein He said affirming which was given to Moses in Deut. 29:1-30:14. He said, This is the Covenant that I will make, I will put my Law into your hearts and in your minds write them.



Deut 29:1 These are the words of the covenant, which the LORD commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab, beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb.

Deut 30:10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
Deut 30:11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
Deut 30:12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deut 30:13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deut 30:14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

 

[daq]

You seem to believe that the same commandments written in the old stone were transplanted into our hearts and the only thing that changed is the medium.

And what was carved in the stone, came to its end:

Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory...
For if what was being brought to an end came with glory, much more will what is permanent have glory.
2 Cor 3:7,11

From the same passage:

2 Corinthians 3:12-17 KJV
12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

1) Mosheh put a veil over his face because it was the skin of his face that shown with glory: not the tablets or the Torah. It is the flesh that is passing away just as it always does, right along with your physical-minded carnal interpretations of the Torah which will pass away when your carcass waxes old, dies, and decays.
2) The goal is not to abolish the Torah but to understand it: and that does not happen except for those who are truly indeed "in Meshiah".
3) Where the Spirit of the LORD is, there is liberty.

Ezekiel 11:19-20 KJV
19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

Ezekiel 36:25-28 KJV
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

This new Spirit, which is the Spirit of the Father, is freely given through and in the Testimony of the Meshiah which is Spirit, (John 6:63), and is therefore the new Spirit of the new-renewed covenant.

Luke 4:16-18 KJV
16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, [Isa 61:1]

Isaiah 61:1a ~ "Ruach Adonai YHWH is upon me"...

 

[trophy33]

From the same passage:

2 Corinthians 3:12-17 KJV
12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

1) Mosheh put a veil over his face because it was the skin of his face that shown with glory: not the tablets or the Torah. It is the flesh that is passing away just as it always does, right along with your physical-minded carnal interpretations of the Torah which will pass away when your carcass waxes old, dies, and decays.
2) The goal is not to abolish the Torah but to understand it: and that does not happen except for those who are truly indeed "in Meshiah".
3) Where the Spirit of the LORD is, there is liberty.

Ezekiel 11:19-20 KJV
19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

Ezekiel 36:25-28 KJV
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

This new Spirit, which is the Spirit of the Father, is freely given through and in the Testimony of the Meshiah which is Spirit, (John 6:63), and is therefore the new Spirit of the new-renewed covenant.

Luke 4:16-18 KJV
16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, [Isa 61:1]

Isaiah 61:1a ~ "Ruach Adonai YHWH is upon me"...

Thats a lof of text, however, I cannot find anything related to my post in any direct way.

1. We serve in the new way, not in the old way of the written code.
2. We died to the law so that we can belong to another (its not possible to have both, its mutually exclusive)
3. What was carved into the stone, has come to its end (or: "faded away") - not the stone tablets but that what was carved into them

Therefore, Christianity is not just taking the commandments from stone and putting them into hearts, its a new, different way.

 

[daq]

Thats a lof of text, however, I cannot find anything related to my post in any direct way.

1. We serve in a new way, not in the old way of the written code.
2. We died to the law and we belong to another.
3. What was carved into stone has ended.

The scripture I posted shows that your understanding of one of the texts you quoted is incorrect: that's what happens when you strip scripture one-liners from their contexts and paste them into your own gospel version. Exodus 34 plainly states that it was the skin of the face of Mosheh that shone with glory, not the tablets, and you have therefore misrepresented Paul's words in the passage by your doctrinal statements.

Exodus 34:29-35 KJV
29 And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of testimony in Moses' hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses wist not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with him.
30 And when Aaron and all the children of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone; and they were afraid to come nigh him.
31 And Moses called unto them; and Aaron and all the rulers of the congregation returned unto him: and Moses talked with them.
32 And afterward all the children of Israel came nigh: and he gave them in commandment all that the LORD had spoken with him in mount Sinai.
33 And till Moses had done speaking with them, he put a vail on his face.
34 But when Moses went in before the LORD to speak with him, he took the vail off, until he came out. And he came out, and spake unto the children of Israel that which he was commanded.
35 And the children of Israel saw the face of Moses, that the skin of Moses' face shone: and Moses put the vail upon his face again, until he went in to speak with him.

What therefore was the glory which the children of Yisrael could not look stedfastly upon? It was the flesh, the skin of Mosheh's face, not the tablets or the Torah, but you've taken Paul's statements and wrested them to fit them into your beliefs.

2 Corinthians 3:7-13 KJV
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

V.7 - The children of Yisrael could not look stedfastly at the face of Mosheh because of the glory of his countenance: which glory was to be done away. That is neither the tablets, nor the Ten Words, nor the Torah: that is the skin of the face of Mosheh, the flesh, and that is what Paul says was to be done away.

V.13 - Same as v.7, the skin of Mosheh's face is what was and is to be abolished: for it is a metaphor concerning the flesh, and Paul is using this juxtaposition between the Spirit -vs- the flesh just as he quite often does, and it is talking about the natural, carnal minded, outward, and physical interpretations of the Torah which were foisted upon the people in handwritten dogmas, decrees, ordinances, and injunctions in letters that kill, for the Sandhedrin rulings were binding on the whole of the nation, and yet many were incorrect interpretations of the Torah based on the flesh, the physical, and natural minded things. The Master overturns their natural minded understanding of the Torah, and even fills up the Torah just as he says, commencing in Matthew 5, "You have heard that it was said by those of old time", (the Pharisaic "Tradition of the Elders").

 

[trophy33]

From the same passage:

2 Corinthians 3:12-17 KJV
12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

1) Mosheh put a veil over his face because it was the skin of his face that shown with glory: not the tablets or the Torah. It is the flesh that is passing away just as it always does, right along with your physical-minded carnal interpretations of the Torah which will pass away when your carcass waxes old, dies, and decays.
2) The goal is not to abolish the Torah but to understand it: and that does not happen except for those who are truly indeed "in Meshiah".
3) Where the Spirit of the LORD is, there is liberty.

Ezekiel 11:19-20 KJV
19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

Ezekiel 36:25-28 KJV
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

This new Spirit, which is the Spirit of the Father, is freely given through and in the Testimony of the Meshiah which is Spirit, (John 6:63), and is therefore the new Spirit of the new-renewed covenant.

Luke 4:16-18 KJV
16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, [Isa 61:1]

Isaiah 61:1a ~ "Ruach Adonai YHWH is upon me"...

Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!
2 Cor 3:7-11 (NIV)

1. The ministry, that was engraved in the letters on stone, came with glory
2. What came with glory (not Moses' face, but the ministry engraved in letters on stone), was transitory.

 

[trophy33]

Where the Jewish Torah or the Mosaic commandments are, there is no freedom, but slavery and the ministry of death. Where the Spirit is, there is also freedom. Its mutually exclusive.

Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
2 Cor 3:17 (NIV)
- not Jewish Torah or the old code, but freedom.

"But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way
of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code."
R 7:6
- we serve in the new way of the Spirit. And where the Spirit is, there is freedom, too. There is no old way of the written (Mosaic) code. I do not know how to say it more clearly.

It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
Gal 5:1 (NIV)
- we are adopted as free sons, we are not adopted as slaves, to be under plenty of old rules and commandments

"So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another"
R 7:4
- without dying to the law, we cannot belong to another; its mutually exclusive

 

[daq]

Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!
2 Cor 3:7-11 (NIV)

Get a better translation.

1. The ministry, that was engraved in the letters on stone, came with glory
2. What came with glory (not Moses' face, but the ministry engraved in letters on stone), was transitory.

The glory shone in the face of Mosheh: not from the tablets.
The flesh is transitory: the Spirit is eternal, and the Torah is spiritual, Romans 7:14.

Where the Jewish Torah or the Mosaic commandments are, there is no freedom, but slavery and the ministry of death. Where the Spirit is, there is also freedom. Its mutually exclusive.

So according to your theory Elohim brought Yisrael out of the bondage and slavery in Egypt so that He could place them under His own new form of bondage and slavery to fleshly and physical minded laws and ordinances? Uh, no deal, sorry for your luck.

Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
2 Cor 3:17 (NIV)

Already refuted in the post which you said didn't appear to have anything to do with your commentary.

"But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way
of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code."
R 7:6

It is "the oldness of the letter", which was the handwritten dogmas, decrees, ordinances, and injunctions of the Sanhedrin, Chief Priests, Elders, Pharisees, Sadducees, and Scribes, which were against us, and which brought death because they were outward, physical, natural minded interpretations of the Torah, which is spiritual: and yet their letters or "written code", full of their dogmas and decrees, were binding upon the whole nation of Yisrael: nobody had a choice in the matter in first century Yisrael.

If you were carnal, as Paul says in Romans 7:14, as a natural man when you first entered into the faith: then it is you who needed to be renewed and reformed, not that the Torah needed you to come along abolish it for your own perceived benefit. You are only hurting yourself in refusing to see it in and from the scripture, and apparently do not understand what Meshiah has actually done for us all by filling up and fully expounding the Torah so that we may actually walk in it pleasing to the Father, as it was originally intended, (and he gave it all as a free gift, freely given through his Testimony, which cost him his life, soul, and blood, which he also freely gave on our behalf).

If you believe the Torah is just a bunch of outward, physical, natural minded handwritten dogmas, decrees, and regulations, then you are worse off than the Pharisees because you only appear to prefer it that way so that you can justify your own desire to set aside the Torah-Instruction of the Father for His children, instead of trying to keep what you know you cannot do in your flesh.

 

[trophy33]

Get a better translation.

This translation is good enough.

The rest of your post is a classic strawman "So according to your theory..., If you believe the Torah is just a bunch of..." and your personal interpretations of Romans we already know we do not agree on, so its not needed to repeat the dance again. Its obviously about the Law, but suit yourself as you wish.

 

[daq]

The rest of your post is a classic strawman "So according to your theory..., If you believe the Torah is just a bunch of..." and your personal interpretations of Romans we already know we do not agree on, so its not needed to repeat the dance again. Its obviously about the Law, but suit yourself as you wish.

Romans 7:14 says what it says. Someone else's non-belief does not falsify my belief in what it says. Moreover, if you at least believed what Paul says in the last verse of that same chapter, (Rom 7:25), you might understand the so-called "ministration of death" a little better.

Romans 7:25 KJV
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then I of myself with the mind, indeed, serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Very simple statements.
All that is necessary in order to begin to understand is to actually believe what they say.

 

[Gary K]

This translation is good enough.

The rest of your post is a classic strawman "So according to your theory..., If you believe the Torah is just a bunch of..." and your personal interpretations of Romans we already know we do not agree on, so its not needed to repeat the dance again. Its obviously about the Law, but suit yourself as you wish.

So why do you keep on with your same old dance as we already know you're an evolutionist and not going to change your tune? So why do you continue with your straw men?

 

[reddogs]

This translation is good enough.

The rest of your post is a classic strawman "So according to your theory..., If you believe the Torah is just a bunch of..." and your personal interpretations of Romans we already know we do not agree on, so its not needed to repeat the dance again. Its obviously about the Law, but suit yourself as you wish.

Myst, are you an evolutionist?

 

[Gary K]

Myst, are you an evolutionist?

Yes, he is.

 

[trophy33]

Myst, are you an evolutionist?

Not in some kind of religious adherence, but I rationally accept the theory of evolution as the process of how our bodies got to our current state.

It makes sense in many daily life areas and it has no other similarly explanatory alternative. If there will be some other similarly useful system in the future, I may change my view.

And regarding the third of the SDA church main positions - veganism (after the YEC and sabbatarianism), I am on the animal based diet. So I am completely outside of the SDA's specific quirks.

 

[reddogs]

Not in some kind of religious adherence, but I rationally accept the theory of evolution as the process of how our bodies got to our current state.

It makes sense in many daily life areas and it has no other similarly explanatory alternative. If there will be some other similarly useful system in the future, I may change my view.

And regarding the third of the SDA church main positions - veganism (after the YEC and sabbatarianism), I am on the animal based diet. So I am completely outside of the SDA's specific quirks.

But why would put in this 'theory' when its clear it was from sin that we got to our current state.

 

[trophy33]

But why would put in this 'theory' when its clear it was from sin that we got to our current state.

I am not sure what you mean. Put where?

 

[Gary K]

Not in some kind of religious adherence, but I rationally accept the theory of evolution as the process of how our bodies got to our current state.

It makes sense in many daily life areas and it has no other similarly explanatory alternative. If there will be some other similarly useful system in the future, I may change my view.

And regarding the third of the SDA church main positions - veganism (after the YEC and sabbatarianism), I am on the animal based diet. So I am completely outside of the SDA's specific quirks.

How can anyone say they are not an evolutionist in a spiritual sense? There are only two possibilities. Either God created created us or He didn't. Anything to do with God has to do with religion.

 

[trophy33]

There are only two possibilities. Either God created created us or He didn't.

This is the logical fallacy of the false dilemma.

Evolution does not mean "therefore God did not create the creation", evolution is a model, a mechanism.

The literal reading of Genesis, as practiced by the Seventh Day Adventists - "dust, breathing life into statue, woman from the half of the man etc." is not useful as a model for our biology, ecosystems, health, psychology, sociology, nutrition, cosmology etc.