Flat Earth Theory.

[AV1611VET]

And still, none of your posts have anything to do with the thread topic. You simply want to hijack the thread for your own agenda.

Was it worth it, if you learned something?

 

[prodromos]

Was it worth it, if you learned something?

I've learned something about some of the people posting in this thread. Nothing particularly good.

 

[weekEd]

@BNR32FAN
I remember your comments about aging of humans.. The surviving evidence of written language only goes back maybe 6,7 thousand years... Before that there isn't much surviving so far that is much older.
Figurines go back further.

Venus of Hohle Fels: The Earliest Known Depiction of a Human Being in Prehistoric Art

The Venus of Hohle Fels (also known as the Venus of Schelklingen ; in German variously Venus vom Hohlen Fels, vom Hohle Fels; Venus von Schelklingen) is an Upper Paleolithic Venus figurine made of mammoth ivory that was unearthed in 2008 in Hohle Fels, a cave near Schelklingen, Germany. It is dat

www.thearchaeologist.org

 

[Apple Sky]

I see you still haven't showed us the part where it says the earrth is flat.

And you haven't shown us the part where it says it's a spinning globe either.

 

[weekEd]

given the history of suggesting the Earth is round to chrisitans it's no wonder that it seems unthinkable to suggest it, even on a personal level... sin I guess..

 

[Apple Sky]

There was once a petition to change the name of 'Earth' to 'Terra', can you believe it. I'm so glad that they didn't succeed.

Sign the Petition

Change the name of Earth to Terra

www.change.org

 

[prodromos]

There was once a petition to change the name of 'Earth' to 'Terra', can you believe it. I'm so glad that they didn't succeed.

Sign the Petition

Change the name of Earth to Terra

www.change.org

Its just Latin for "Earth". Where do you think words like "extraterrestrial" come from

 

[Phil G]

And how many times did our Lord drive away followers by using GP metaphors? How many though that say that He was a door caused any raised hackles? How many thought them a "hard saying, and wondering at who could hear it? If "take, eat, this is My Body" was a metaphor, what did it represent? And if it was simply a grossly misunderstood metaphor, why was our Lord willing to let His followers walk away rather than clarify it for them?

Too lame an "explanation" by far. It's an attempt to "explain away" what the entire Church had believed up until the folks like Zwingli decided that hard saying was just too bloody hard ( as well too bloody Catholic). So they "explained it away".

Once again I'm with Luther. I'd much rather drink Blood with the Pope than Welchade with the neo-Zwinglians.

My comment was not an attack on the Catholic Church but to show FE (the subject of this thread) believers that God sometimes spoke in metaphor, which is definitely what Jesus did when He said that He is the door and the vine. As regards anything to do the Lord's supper, that's another debate for another thread at another time.

 

[Phil G]

And you haven't shown us the part where it says it's a spinning globe either.

And you haven't acknowledged that God (not the writers who physically wrote the Bible) sometimes spoke in metaphor rather than the literal.

 

[trophy33]

Yes and acknowledge all of that but we’re talking specifically about Genesis. You can’t just say that the Bible is filled with songs and poetry and metaphors then apply that to any portion you want, there are literary devices associated with each of these styles of writing. That’s like saying a car has a muffler so you can call any part on the car a muffler if you want, it’s not a viable argument.

No such argument was made. Genesis 1/2 are not mythological because I want to, or Psalms are not songs because I want to, or Isaiah is not prophetic, because I want to. Its their nature independent of my wanting.

If the six day creation wasn’t intended to be taken literally it wouldn’t have been necessary to mention in verse 3 that God created the light and called the light day and the darkness night. There’s no purpose for making this statement if the six days are intended to be metaphorical for a period longer than a single day and not representative of six literal days. Furthermore there’s no purpose for specifically stating that there was evening and morning for each particular creation day if the word day was intended to be metaphorical for a period of time that is longer than a literal day. What is the metaphorical meaning? When a metaphor is used and the meaning isn’t either common knowledge or explicitly explained then it fails to serve a purpose. Why did you quote the passages about our kidneys being the source of our thoughts? Because it was an obvious metaphor that anyone could detect.

Its not just a metaphor, Gen 1 is a mythological drama and Gen 2 is a mythological story/narrative.

The division of the drama into symbolic number of days with the number 7 representing perfection in Jewish thinking, repetition of the division part "and it was evening and morning..." its all a literary device used to structure the scenes. Speculation what exactly did every sentence mean for the original audience in Babylon is quite futile today, though. First, I am no expert on bronze age mythology and the Jewish form of it, second, I doubt real experts have all the answers. It was too long time ago.

I know only about some elements - for example the uncreated, primordial waters symbolize eternal chaos (Leviathan is a zoomorphic alternative symbol of the same primordial chaos). God is depicted as someone who tamed the chaos/waters, creating land and giving borders to waters, creating the cosmic order with sun, moon, stars, preparing the creation for a man to rule over it. Dust in Gen 2 symbolizes mortality, number 7 I already mentioned.

If you are interested in more details, try to find it in some good Bible Dictionary or maybe there is some good lecture online or in some theological journal. For example John Walton has some interesting presentations:

Because there’s an obvious difference between the literary style and genre of Psalms and Genesis, they are not even remotely written in the same literary format.

Agreed. Genesis and Psalms are different genres. As I already said several times, Psalms are songs and Gen 1/2 are mythological texts. But both genres are non-literal, thats what they have in common.

 

[trophy33]

Ok that still falls into the category that the creation account is a false man made superstition

Have you not had a history of literature in school? Or maybe an introduction to mythology in some philosophy subject?

You seem to not understand that mythology is neither "false", nor a superstition. Its a style people used before philosophy. Mythology uses familiar objects to represent abstract realities (like fire, waters, wind, dust, trees, serpent, abyss...), while philosophy uses abstract terms to represent abstract realities (like chaos, logos, essence, form...).

The Old Testament uses mythology, because it was written in the mythological era. The New Testament uses philosophy, because it was written in the philosophical era.

And we, today, use mostly empiricism and formal logic, which developed from specific branches of philosophy. Its actually the reason you used the word "false". Concepts foreign to the authors of Genesis as much as mythology is foreign to us.

The error the YEC and Flat Earth proponents are making is that they read a three thousand years old text intuitively. Intuitively for us means in a modern way we grew up in - this combination yields nonsense and does not work.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Ok that still falls into the category that the creation account is a false man made superstition because it didn’t derive from God and man had absolutely no way of knowing how the earth was created. So technically your interpretation of it did fall into the one of the two scenarios I presented.

Only in your mind. I see it all with greater nuance. Genesis is a theological document, not a historical document. If you only see it as superstition derived from humans you cant appreciate the divinely inspired aspects I already mentioned.

There is only one supreme God who is creator
Creation brought order to chaos.
God is good and creates good things.

That is Revelation not superstition.

What other theology can you identify? Don't be distracted by grasping at literal meanings.

 

[Apple Sky]

Its just Latin for "Earth". Where do you think words like "extraterrestrial" come from

Extra land

 

[Apple Sky]

And you haven't acknowledged that God (not the writers who physically wrote the Bible) sometimes spoke in metaphor rather than the literal.

Nonsense - I know when it's a metaphor & when it's not.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

There was once a petition to change the name of 'Earth' to 'Terra', can you believe it. I'm so glad that they didn't succeed.

Sign the Petition

Change the name of Earth to Terra

www.change.org

I like Tellus.

ONLINE LATIN DICTIONARY - Latin - English

Latin Dictionary: the best Latin dictionary with a conjugator and a Latin declension tool available online for free!

www.online-latin-dictionary.com

 

[Phil G]

Nonsense - I know when it's a metaphor & when it's not.

Apparently not. Job 38:7 is God speaking, therefore it isn't the author of Job interpreting in metaphor. God specifically says that the morning stars sang together. One way or another that cannot be taken literally at the face value of the words. Either 'morning stars' are non-literal or 'singing' is non-literal.

Jesus used metaphor when saying He is the door and the vine.

Your claim is "Writers use a lot of non-literal language to help readers better understand something or gain a more. detailed picture in their minds."
But this is God speaking, not the writers who are writing down what they hear from Him.

Your opinion on what is metaphor and what isn't is based on your claimed belief in a flat earth, not in what God is saying.

 

[AV1611VET]

I've learned something about some of the people posting in this thread. Nothing particularly good.

Is that all you see? the messenger and not the message?

 

[AV1611VET]

Its just Latin for "Earth".

There's a lot more to it than that.

Letterheads would have to be changed, science books would have to be updated, yadda yadda and more.

 

[AV1611VET]

But both genres are non-literal, thats what they have in common.

Do you realize that Psalm 22, which Jesus quoted at least the first verse from the Cross, describes a crucifixion in progress, when as yet crucifixions were never heard of?

 

[trophy33]

Do you realize that Psalm 22, which Jesus quoted at least the first verse from the Cross, describes a crucifixion in progress, when as yet crucifixions were never heard of?

Even though crucifixion as a form of public punishment could be unknown, piercing hands and feet is not something they could not comprehend or formulate. They have seen all forms of violence.

Bible does not teach any science - neither geology, nor biology nor cosmology. Their view of the world was neither realism, naturalism nor rationalism. Those are modern concepts.