Extra Biblical Writings

[Peter]

This particular post has to do with those documents that the Church has always accepted as being "orthodox" but are not included in what we commonly call scripture. These writings would include the works of Polycarp, The Shepherd of Hermas etc. This does not include Gnostic writings.

For a reference point, let's limit ourselves to the dates of 33-150 AD. This would keep us within the time of spiritual grandchildren of the Apostles.

Perhaps the first book that could be discussed is the Didache. Who wrote it? When?

Peace.

Peter

 

[St. Worm2]

I don't know much about this book, but I look forward to learning about it (and perhaps reading it someday). The author is unknown, right? The date? Early 2nd Century or very late 1st?

 

[Kripost]

As far as I know, the authorship is uncertain, and it was written relatively late, some where around the 2nd century, although the exact date is also uncertain. I think it could have been included in the Canon if it was written much earlier.

 

[St. Worm2]

Also, I have read that the Didache is best used as an historical reference, providing much insight into the life of the early church, but that it is poor as a theology because it is so steeped in legalism. True?

 

[II Paradox II]

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/didache.html

This page has a useful summary and links to number of different translations. It's really not that long, so you can probably read it in about 15 minutes...

ken

 

[Philip]

Perhaps the first book that could be discussed is the Didache. Who wrote it? When?

It is not clear who wrote the Didache. It is probable that written (or at least redacted) by an early bishop of Antioch. Some date it to as early as mid-first century.

 

[Philip]

Also, I have read that the Didache is best used as an historical reference, providing much insight into the life of the early church, but that it is poor as a theology because it is so steeped in legalism. True?

How is it legalistic?

 

[St. Worm2]

How is it legalistic?

I would have to read it ... now I guess I will ... to find out if it is or isn't. This is simply something I remember reading about it. Perhaps someone who has read the book could answer your question? (Has anyone here read it?)

 

[Crazy Liz]

I would have to read it ... now I guess I will ... to find out if it is or isn't. This is simply something I remember reading about it. Perhaps someone who has read the book could answer your question? (Has anyone here read it?)

I see no one has posted a link so everyone can easily read the Didache.

Here are more Didache resources, including links to several different translations.

I hope you are all familiar with the New Advent and Christian Classics Ethereal Library (at which I was unable to locate the Didache but since I looked, thoght I'd post the link, anyway. ) websites for the Early Church Fathers and other public domain church history literature. New Advent is Roman Catholic. CCEL is run by protestants. It was started at Wheaton College, but has now moved to Calvin College.

The Catholic Encyclopedia is a good free online resource.

 

[Crazy Liz]

Also, I have read that the Didache is best used as an historical reference, providing much insight into the life of the early church, but that it is poor as a theology because it is so steeped in legalism. True?

The Didache is very obviously based on the teachings in Matthew's gospel, and therefore stresses a "righteousness [that] exceeds the scribes and the Pharisees." (Matthew 5:20) Yet, it is not perfectionistic:

6:1 See that no one make thee to err from this path of doctrine, since he who doeth so teacheth thee apart from God.

6:2 If thou art able to bear the whole yoke of the Lord, thou wilt be perfect; but if thou art not able, what thou art able, that do.

6:3 But concerning meat, bear that which thou art able to do. But keep with care from things sacrificed to idols, for it is the worship of the infernal deities.

 

[Kripost]

Also, I have read that the Didache is best used as an historical reference, providing much insight into the life of the early church, but that it is poor as a theology because it is so steeped in legalism. True?

The Didache reads more like a practical text than a theological text. I opinion is, whether it is legalistic or not is dependent on how the guidelines are applied. When applied just for its own sake without the context of the Gospel, it would be legalistic.

 

[Lotar]

There really isn't much to the Didache. Really, it seems to me, that the only reason people talk about it so much is that it is so old.

 

[mister_p]

An interesting point:

It has been argued that the gifts of the Spirit ceased when the last NT book was written, around the end of the 100's. The Didache, talks about the gifts still operating at least when it was written, 150 or so (eg, Chapter 11 and prophets).

It is more a summary document, than anything, really.

 

[ClementofRome]

The Didache sheds light on several issues that the early church was wrestling with, of which my favorite is 'baptism.'

"7:1 But concerning baptism, thus baptize ye: having first recited all these precepts, baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in running water;
<A name=7:2>7:2 but if thou hast not running water, baptize in some other water, and if thou canst not baptize in cold, in warm water;

7:3 but if thou hast neither, pour water three times on the head, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. "

I think that in the midst of our various dogmatic positions concerning modes and methods of baptism, the author of the Didiche seems to hit the nail on the head...

Running water = living water seems best
or
Any other water...prefer cold, but warm will do
or
Pour it on their heads......JUST BAPTIZE THEM....NOW!

Beautiful!

 

[ClementofRome]

Did everyone just loose interest in this topic? I thought we were just getting good and started. Oh well.

Blessings to you all.

 

[Philip]

Did everyone just loose interest in this topic? I thought we were just getting good and started. Oh well.

I got distracted by other threads.

 

[Philip]

The Didache, talks about the gifts still operating at least when it was written, 150 or so (eg, Chapter 11 and prophets).

Most date the Didache before AD 120. Some as early as AD 60.

 

[ClementofRome]

Most date the Didache before AD 120. Some as early as AD 60.

I think that this is important. Though I would hesitate to date it as early as 60AD, I would certainly agree with those scholars that would date it to the very early 2nd century.

The writings of the Apostolic Father's give us great insight into the thinking of the 2nd and 3rd generation Christians and as the are so closely connected to the Apostolic teaching, I give them a certain amount of credibility. The use of the OT by Clement and Barnabas is amazing. The practical insight of the Didache is helpful as well. What were these early Christians (who had a very loose understanding of what was "canonical") thinking about their Christianity and the practice of such. I believe that we today have been so heavly influenced by medieval>reformation>modern Christianity, that we fail to see the benefit of the early fathers.

Again, this will get me into trouble with all camps, but I am much more interested in knowing what the early fathers believed and how they practiced their Christianity than any church council, pope or reformer (ok, that should get me flamed by all adequately~ ). Don't get me wrong, I love to read the writings of all of the above...just that we have forgotten those who loved and lived and suffered that were closest to the Apostles.

 

[ClementofRome]

I got distracted by other threads.

It is so easy to do, huh Philip? There is almost too much here!

 

[Philip]

I think that this is important. Though I would hesitate to date it as early as 60AD, I would certainly agree with those scholars that would date it to the very early 2nd century.

Agreed. I think c. AD 110 is a good date for the Didache in its current form. The first six chapters probably predate this.

The writings of the Apostolic Father's give us great insight into the thinking of the 2nd and 3rd generation Christians and as the are so closely connected to the Apostolic teaching, I give them a certain amount of credibility. The use of the OT by Clement and Barnabas is amazing.

I really like St Ignatius's writings. His willingness to die for the Lord is inspiring.