Donald Trump says post abortive women deserve some form of punishment

[MoonlessNight]

I disagree with Trump on just about everything two people can disagree on. However, he's right in saying that "if Republicans succeeded in banning the practice [of abortion]", then women who sought abortions would likely be punished, as would the physicians that performed them. Yes, people who are convicted of lawbreaking face punishment, and if abortion were illegal, those caught having or performing them would face punishment as lawbreakers. Thank you, Captain Obvious.

This is one very good reason why I don't support criminalizing abortion. As a Catholic I utterly abhor the practice. It's the wrong decision, period. I cannot, however, stand by and support jailing a woman who was reduced to making such a terrible choice. I believe in ending abortion through education and funding for alternatives like adoption, not by putting desperate women through criminal proceedings.

What are your opinions of women who, because of economic hardships or mental duress, decide to kill their already born children? Currently such an action is illegal and such women are jailed should they be found guilty.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

This is one very good reason why I don't support criminalizing abortion. As a Catholic I utterly abhor the practice. It's the wrong decision, period. I cannot, however, stand by and support jailing a woman who was reduced to making such a terrible choice. I believe in ending abortion through education and funding for alternatives like adoption, not by putting desperate women through criminal proceedings.

Condemnation of abortion rings rather hollow as long as we insist on making excuses for women who have abortions. Describing them as "desperate" and "reduced to making such a terrible choice" does precisely that. It paints the woman as a passive victim of circumstance, as if abortion was something that just happened to her. Saying that abortion is "not very nice" is not the same thing as regarding it as a crime, and for a Christian or really for any society that is serious about preservation of the next generation, simply won't cut it. I understand that many pregnant women face social pressure to have abortions, just as adolescent boys growing up in the inner cities face social pressure to join gangs. This hardly negeates responsibility for personal choice.

I spoke about a politically correct "pro-life" mentality in post #13. Far to many professed pro-lifers can't bring themselves to hold the woman morally accountable for abortion. The most likely reason for this is because they are afraid that it would open them up to charges of being "anti-woman", which they are very sensitive to. However, the prevailing attitude in our culture seems to be that it is "anti-woman" to hold women accountable for anything, and it ultimate abounts to an attempt to placate people who are never going to accept your good faith anyway.

Now Trump, what ever else he is, is not the least bit afraid of offending feminsts. They don't like him, he knows they don't like him, and he accepts that they don't like him. This allows him to say what he wants without worrying about what they will think. This is how he, a lukewarm mainline Protestant, was able to champion the pro-life cause more firmly than most Catholics and evangelicals. Definitely a teachable moment for the pro-life movement, if they are willing to watch and learn.

I think one thing we could do is wait 20 years after abortion becomes illegal to before the mothers would be charged
allow time to go for it to really sink in that this is a crime, allow time for the culture to adapt

I'm afraid your putting the cart before the horse here. I don't thing we're ever going to make abortion illegal until we are prepared to own the logical consequences of our position. How else can we excpect to be taken seriously?

 

[Armoured]

It's not an opinion, it's scientific fact that there is another human being inside a woman when she is pregnant.

.

No it's not, as "human BEING" is not a scientific term. But thanks for playing.

 

[Pwnerer]

No it's not, as "human BEING" is not a scientific term. But thanks for playing.

Science says "You don't know me"

 

[MoonlessNight]

Science says "You don't know me"

Armoured has a very complicated set of definitions in which "human," "person," "human being," etc. all mean different things. He considers them all to be obvious and will get insulted if you question his definitions, or suggest that they are not the commonly used definitions. You will probably have to do a great deal of work to get him to spell out any definitions in the first place, since to him they are so obvious and clear cut.

Just a word of warning from a guy who went down this road before.

 

[Armoured]

Science says "You don't know me"

Hey great quote mine! Show me a scientific definition of a human BEING and I'll conceed the point.

 

[Pwnerer]

Hey great quote mine! Show me a scientific definition of a human BEING and I'll conceed the point.

Sure thing:

In biological terms, a human being, or human, is any member of the mammalianspeciesHomo sapiens,a group of ground-dwelling, tailless primates that are distributed worldwide and are characterized by bipedalism and the capacity for speech and language, with an erect body carriage that frees the hands for manipulating objects.

Human being, a culture-bearing primate classified in the genus Homo, especially the speciesH. sapiens. Human beings are anatomically similar and related to the great apes but are distinguished by a more highly developed brain and a resultant capacity for articulate speech and abstract reasoning. I

A human (also called a human being or person) is a member of the speciesHomo sapiens, which means 'wise man' in Latin.[1]Carolus Linnaeus put humans in themammalianorder of primates

A bipedalprimate belonging to the genusHomo, especially Homo sapiens.

In biology, human(noun), human being, and person are generally accepted as the same thing. A human fetus is an individual of the species as much as a human adult, human infant, or human adolescent. We all exist, however briefly, as single celled creatures.

 

[Armoured]

Sure thing:

In biological terms, a human being, or human, is any member of the mammalianspeciesHomo sapiens,a group of ground-dwelling, tailless primates that are distributed worldwide and are characterized by bipedalism and the capacity for speech and language, with an erect body carriage that frees the hands for manipulating objects.

Human being, a culture-bearing primate classified in the genus Homo, especially the speciesH. sapiens. Human beings are anatomically similar and related to the great apes but are distinguished by a more highly developed brain and a resultant capacity for articulate speech and abstract reasoning. I

A human (also called a human being or person) is a member of the speciesHomo sapiens, which means 'wise man' in Latin.[1]Carolus Linnaeus put humans in themammalianorder of primates

A bipedalprimate belonging to the genusHomo, especially Homo sapiens.

In biology, human(noun), human being, and person are generally accepted as the same thing. A human fetus is an individual of the species as much as a human adult, human infant, or human adolescent. We all exist, however briefly, as single celled creatures.

Wikipedia? Seriously?

 

[Pwnerer]

Wikipedia? Seriously?

"Seriously?" isn't a valid response.

"Human being" is a scientific term, used in biology. It is synonymous with the noun "human", and refers to individuals of the species Homo sapiens. If you don't like Wikipedia, I offered several corroborating sources.

You should concede the point.