Dominion and Dominionism Questions

[ToBeBlessed]

Exactly my point. Imposing invalid control is what witchcraft is all about. Rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, why? Rebellion is rejection of a valid authority. Witchcraft is usurping invalid authority. A wife that rejects her husband's authority is in rebellion. If she tries to impose her will over her husband, it is witchcraft. Witchcraft and rebellion go hand in hand. They are basically flip sides of the same coin.

Paganistic witchcraft is taking invalid authority over spiritual forces by worshiping higher level spirits to get lower level spirits to serve you. Again it is an invalid usurpation of authority by forbidden means.

This is what most of the occult is about, which I think witchcraft would fall under. This could also include mediums, tarot card readers, satanists, luciferians, reiki and yoga masters, kundalini and all sorts of other stuff.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

I did post our dominion. We have ALL AUTHORITY over the forces of the enemy. Mankind has dominion over the earth and the beasts.

When Adam was in perfection with God, BEFORE sin, he had righteous dominion in the perfection of God.

After Adam sinned, he was no longer in the perfection of God and lost that because he knew sin.

Adam's dominion, before sin, was because of his righteousness in God. God created Adam, in His image, the image of perfection and perfect communion with God.

I do NOT believe that we have ALL AUTHORITY anymore. Through Christ, we are given His righteousness, but we don't have this ourselves.

We know longer know how and can not because of original sin, execute the perfect dominion we were given.

People don't want that, they want power and glory for themselves disguised as dominion. People need to get back to basics. We are servants of the one and only God. A servant serves. As Paul said about himself and Apollos, we are all servants of Jesus Christ. One plants the seed, one waters, but Christ makes it grow.

Jesus taught us how to serve. Not Jesus will be done, but the Father who sent Him. He washed His disciples feet, He prayed for those who persecuted Him, He paid our sin debt in full.

We are to serve as Jesus served. Not my will, but Your will be done Father, on earth as it is in heaven!

 

[ToBeBlessed]

I don't know what dominion theology is from printed or teaching.

This is what my dominion understanding is.

Jesus said that His kingdom is not of this world. So it is not political or military.

Genesis we are to subdue the earth and take dominion. We can use the earth for our benefit and that of others, as we use it justly and wisely.

Matthew 28:18-20 All authority has been given to Jesus so we are to make disciples all over the earth and teach them to observe Jesus' teachings.

Luke 10 Jesus has given us authority over all the power of the enemy. We can minister for Jesus and not be overcome by the enemy. We overcome by the blood of Jesus, the word of our testimony and we do not love our life even unto death. Rev 12:11

What we set out to do we can succeed because we are working with the Lord and He is working with us. IF we deny ourselves and walk as disciples. Psalm 1 Psalm 91

we are the head and not the tail. Deut 28 we are the one who sets the agenda as led by God. That does not mean people who walk by the flesh will understand or agree with what we are doing.

Dominion is a faith walk. It is taking over something of the natural and ruling in the Spirit. Light defeats darkness. But dominion is enforced in the spirit not the flesh. Faith works through love, so dominion is working for the good of others.

If you want to find out what the dominionist's think, look into Latter Rain, Joel's Army, Manifest Sons of God, Kingdom Now. If you do NOT want to know, then just say "I think ...." because without knowing it is you pondering.

They have very, very serious beliefs. That the entire earth, all nations, must be subdued BEFORE Jesus Christ second coming. They believe that all need to be converted to Chrisitanity by ANY MEANS NECESSARY.

First. Only the Father knows the day and time of Jesus return. The Father does not need us to bring forth anything. He is God. He created ALL.

Forcing people, by militant means if necessary is so far from God's plan for us it is a sick, sick, sick thing. God NEVER forces us into anything. We are given the freedom of choice. Adam and Eve had the freedom of choice. This theology is NOT OF GOD. Period.

 

[RDKirk]

Forcing people, by militant means if necessary is so far from God's plan for us it is a sick, sick, sick thing. God NEVER forces us into anything. We are given the freedom of choice. Adam and Eve had the freedom of choice. This theology is NOT OF GOD. Period.

It's even more subtle and pernicious than that, and a danger to the Body of Christ herself.

This was something Roger Williams warned of 'way back in 1644. He was the person who first coined the phrase, "wall of separation between Church and State," and his point was to protect the purity of the Church.

This is what Roger Williams pointed out, referring to the history of the Church up until his own time:

When the Bride of Christ gets into bed with the king, she's given the benefit of the king's sword for her own protection, true. But she also is now obliged to justify all the other uses the king puts his sword to.

This is called the "chaplain effect" by Rodney R. Clapp in his book, "A Peculiar People." Chaplains of military units, chaplains of sports teams, chaplains of congresses are obliged to bless what those worldly organizations are doing, they are not free to obey Christ...if they want to retain their favored positions.

Once the Church has been integrated into a worldly state structure, it has to live by the rules of the world, not the rules of Heaven, and Roger Willimams pointed out that is exactly what has always happened. The king says, "We must go to war, right priest?" and the priest says, "Amen!" It almost never happens that a king says, "We must go to war" and his captive priest says, "No."

And then, there is the problem that when the favor of the king makes being a Christian socially advantageous (or even socially necessary), then ambitious people who are not truly Christian will join the church merely for its social benefits. Because those people are ambitious, they will seek and rise to leadership positions in the Church.

Jesus has made it clear that only a minority of people will accept him. That means if everyone is forced into the Church, then most people in the pews will not be Christians. Actual Christians would be only a minority in the Church.

There is no getting around it. Only by keeping Christianity socially disadvantageous is there a hope to keep the pews filled with people the Holy Spirit put there, rather than man's ambition or the king's sword.

 

[Alive_Again]

This is what the previous poster said...

I did post our dominion. We have ALL AUTHORITY over the forces of the enemy. Mankind has dominion over the earth and the beasts.

Your response...

When Adam was in perfection with God, BEFORE sin, he had righteous dominion in the perfection of God.

After Adam sinned, he was no longer in the perfection of God and lost that because he knew sin.

Adam's dominion, before sin, was because of his righteousness in God. God created Adam, in His image, the image of perfection and perfect communion with God.

I do NOT believe that we have ALL AUTHORITY anymore. Through Christ, we are given His righteousness, but we don't have this ourselves.

We know longer know how and can not because of original sin, execute the perfect dominion we were given.

There is the nature of the new man in Christ that can walk in the light (and authority) that God intends. He didn't just leave us as "sinners saved by grace". There is a righteous nature inside of you (if you choose to walk in it). It's the divine nature, and outside of this, it really is all of the bad picture so many depict. What is presented by many, is the new man actually walking in the new nature and doing God's intended will for man. It's all subject to the Lordship of Jesus Christ, and this is where the safety lies.

People don't want that, they want power and glory for themselves disguised as dominion. People need to get back to basics. We are servants of the one and only God. A servant serves. As Paul said about himself and Apollos, we are all servants of Jesus Christ. One plants the seed, one waters, but Christ makes it grow.

Here's why we just want the "good version", so that their will be no accusations of glory seeking. That's NOT what we want. That's ugly! Take away the ugly and leave us with the actual, it's all good.

Jesus taught us how to serve. Not Jesus will be done, but the Father who sent Him. He washed His disciples feet, He prayed for those who persecuted Him, He paid our sin debt in full.

We are to serve as Jesus served. Not my will, but Your will be done Father, on earth as it is in heaven!

This is the reason why you stumble at the thought of dominion. You believe that it's never God's will (on earth as it is in Heaven). You believe it will always be corrupt. But this is not so. It's not what so-called "dominionists" preach, and no one here wants any part of that (I hope!).

Yes, Jesus gave away His rights and came as a servant. That servant exercised absolute dominion over the enemy, nature, and all that would oppose God's will (on earth as it is in Heaven). If we successfully lay aside the image of the unlovely and impure, then we have what's correct and pure.

It's best not to be suspicious of people's motives. Let's assume that people actually want God's will.

 

[Alive_Again]

As someone said...

<<Rebellion is rejection of a valid authority. Witchcraft is usurping invalid authority. A wife that rejects her husband's authority is in rebellion. If she tries to impose her will over her husband, it is witchcraft. Witchcraft and rebellion go hand in hand. They are basically flip sides of the same coin.

Paganistic witchcraft is taking invalid authority over spiritual forces by worshiping higher level spirits to get lower level spirits to serve you. Again it is an invalid usurpation of authority by forbidden means.

This is what most of the occult is about, which I think witchcraft would fall under. This could also include mediums, tarot card readers, satanists, luciferians, reiki and yoga masters, kundalini and all sorts of other stuff.

It was said that heresy forces orthodoxy to define itself. The purpose of this thread (as far as the practical benefit believers obtain), is not so much about what they enemy is doing, it's what God is doing and what truly is valid. We've been attempting to demonstrate through the scriptures that God gave authority to man over the earth. It has been restored "in Christ". This means that the middle of the road interpretations (balance) should reflect man's authority on the earth "in Christ". That means submitted to the Lord and moving with Him (by His will) and by His Spirit.

Unless you understand that man is really supposed to have dominion (now the new man), then everything is going to be some kind of usurptation (is that a word?!).

Why don't you tell us what you think true authority in Christ is? It has to be in there somewhere at some level. It will be helpful to hear your version so we can address it as per the scriptures. This eliminates the whole evil spirit thing and places the matter solely where it should be. It relies on no accusations or suspicions of "kundalini". After all that is stripped away, we just have (presumably) what should be in the way of authority.

If you want to find out what the dominionist's think, look into Latter Rain, Joel's Army, Manifest Sons of God, Kingdom Now. If you do NOT want to know, then just say "I think ...." because without knowing it is you pondering.

All that is supposed to be presented here to ensure it's not just heresay and fear.

They have very, very serious beliefs. That the entire earth, all nations, must be subdued BEFORE Jesus Christ second coming. They believe that all need to be converted to Chrisitanity by ANY MEANS NECESSARY.

If it is what you say, I would be against it. Yet, I have not read anything to indicate that.

First. Only the Father knows the day and time of Jesus return. The Father does not need us to bring forth anything. He is God. He created ALL.

I don't know of anyone thinking that they know when He will return.

Forcing people, by militant means if necessary is so far from God's plan for us it is a sick, sick, sick thing. God NEVER forces us into anything. We are given the freedom of choice. Adam and Eve had the freedom of choice. This theology is NOT OF GOD. Period.

You have yet to provide a valid quote to support what you are saying.

 

[AGTG]

If Adam lost dominion over the earth, and Jesus is the "Last Adam," His work on the cross won back the dominion Adam lost.

Does that mean everything will be perfect now? No, but we do have the opportunity in this age to experience the following (note my emphasis of the last scripture):

Hebrews 6
4 For it is impossible, in the case of those q who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come,

There are 5 things Christians can experience in this age:

1) We can become "enlightened."
2) We can "taste of a heavenly gift."
3) We can "share in the Holy Spirit."
4) We can "tasted the goodness of the word of God."
5) We can experience the "powers of the age to come."

When Christ reigns in the Millenial Kingdom, we will get a full experience of the dominion Jesus won back for mankind at the cross. Until then, we can experience a measure of that dominion while walking in a fallen world still.

 

[AGTG]

The "dominion" Christ won at the cross is a spiritual dominion and authority which is used in spiritual ways. People who think this dominion is taken by force in the natural are thinking carnally.

But, if we do it Jesus' way, we would see the kind of power and transformation within the systems of the world because these systems, for the most part, are still under the control of Satan.

But it is obvious the modern church has no understanding of authority over foul spiritual forces. It is Christ who lives in us, and the demons shudder at the Christ because they know He has all power and authority. So Satan has to convince Christians this power and authority are not for today, or not for them, or not for implementation on a daily basis. But it is, because if Christ lives in us, and He does, Christ will use that power and authority to destroy the works of the devil through us.

 

[Alive_Again]

...This means that the middle of the road interpretations (balance) should reflect man's authority on the earth "in Christ". That means submitted to the Lord and moving with Him (by His will) and by His Spirit.

I want to restate this because it didn't receive an answer. We want to determine what the foundation really is so we know if someone builds on it that it is either sound or faulty.

Why don't you tell us what you think true authority in Christ is? It has to be in there somewhere at some level. It will be helpful to hear your version so we can address it as per the scriptures. This eliminates the whole evil spirit thing and places the matter solely where it should be. It relies on no accusations or suspicions of "kundalini". After all that is stripped away, we just have (presumably) what should be in the way of authority.

You might compare it to Jesus' ministry as the Head of the church and what He said to His own people as a good start.

I should like to point out that Israel entering into Canaan is our type for the believer's inheritance in the Spirit. Also, that our enemies in the New Covenant are not flesh and blood. What did God tell Joshua or Moses what was to be the full extent of their dominion?

 

[ToBeBlessed]

There is the nature of the new man in Christ that can walk in the light (and authority) that God intends. He didn't just leave us as "sinners saved by grace". There is a righteous nature inside of you (if you choose to walk in it). It's the divine nature, and outside of this, it really is all of the bad picture so many depict. What is presented by many, is the new man actually walking in the new nature and doing God's intended will for man. It's all subject to the Lordship of Jesus Christ, and this is where the safety lies.

What does it have to do with the fact that when Adam was given authority over the earth, he was NOT IN SIN, walking in perfection with the Lord?

Seems like your making a big jump here.

 

[Alive_Again]

What does it have to do with the fact that when Adam was given authority over the earth, he was NOT IN SIN, walking in perfection with the Lord?

Seems like your making a big jump here.

You'd be correct to believe that God never intended for sinners to run things. It's for people who are submitted to God. As it indicates in the Psalms that the earth He has given to the children of men. This was written long after the fall.

Still, God wants things done His way and His people wouldn't have it any other way. Right?

 

[ToBeBlessed]

You'd be correct to believe that God never intended for sinners to run things. It's for people who are submitted to God. As it indicates in the Psalms that the earth He has given to the children of men. This was written long after the fall.

Still, God wants things done His way and His people wouldn't have it any other way. Right?

Well considering that dominionism believes in forcing people into Christianity, I don't think God wants Christians to force anyone else into anything.

God could have forced us, but He wanted us to come to Him.

 

[Alive_Again]

So many of these wonderful anointed ministers people poke at in this way wouldn't dream of forcing anyone to receive the Lord. It's not His way.

That would accomplish nothing. This was done in many countries in the Middle Ages, but no longer.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

So many of these wonderful anointed ministers people poke at in this way wouldn't dream of forcing anyone to receive the Lord. It's not His way.

That would accomplish nothing. This was done in many countries in the Middle Ages, but no longer.

Who are these wonderful 'anointed' ministers you speak of? Please give names.

Also, the bible is clear that in the last days there will be increasing evil in the world.

 

[Alive_Again]

Who are these wonderful 'anointed' ministers you speak of? Please give names.

Also, the bible is clear that in the last days there will be increasing evil in the world.

I'm not setting up anyone for a firing squad. If you have someone in mind that's been telling you they're going to force anyone to be a Christian, please bring it forth. This is what you have been saying.

Yes, there is and will be increasing evil. The Holy Spirit in a prophetic word once said that as darkness is displaced, it causes a "shift" of things in the spirit realm (my own words). Stuff that was operating in a given location gets moved into other places. As light is established in more places, it's gets darker in others.

Others have seen groups of evil spirits being sent forth, and angels as well. God always out does what the enemy would do, and He knows everything up his sleeve.

But have more confidence in the kingdom of light because it will always be stronger. It won't overpower anyone's will, but it can make the power to choose much easier as these forces become displaced.

I think the discussion is a worthy one because people are apprehensive about the whole dominion thing. Many run with it in a bad way and accuse some very good people (ministers) of having an evil intent, and it's really not that way at all.

I'm not one to go around and critique ministries looking for things to object to. I know people do, but there's so much more to find that is right than what you might find objectionable. All of this is a good thing and not something to anticipate as something getting worse and to be dreaded.

Truly! I don't want to seem like I'm pointing fingers just to take up for some folks, but I'd rather just say that good things are happening, and will be happening, and it won't escape anyone's attention who is looking for good things.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

I'm not setting up anyone for a firing squad. If you have someone in mind that's been telling you they're going to force anyone to be a Christian, please bring it forth. This is what you have been saying.

Yes, there is and will be increasing evil. The Holy Spirit in a prophetic word once said that as darkness is displaced, it causes a "shift" of things in the spirit realm (my own words). Stuff that was operating in a given location gets moved into other places. As light is established in more places, it's gets darker in others.

Others have seen groups of evil spirits being sent forth, and angels as well. God always out does what the enemy would do, and He knows everything up his sleeve.

But have more confidence in the kingdom of light because it will always be stronger. It won't overpower anyone's will, but it can make the power to choose much easier as these forces become displaced.

I think the discussion is a worthy one because people are apprehensive about the whole dominion thing. Many run with it in a bad way and accuse some very good people (ministers) of having an evil intent, and it's really not that way at all.

I'm not one to go around and critique ministries looking for things to object to. I know people do, but there's so much more to find that is right than what you might find objectionable. All of this is a good thing and not something to anticipate as something getting worse and to be dreaded.

Truly! I don't want to seem like I'm pointing fingers just to take up for some folks, but I'd rather just say that good things are happening, and will be happening, and it won't escape anyone's attention who is looking for good things.

I think all of us would just like to see the good. However, I feel that this is either the time or close to the time of the end of days. We are told in the bible that their will be a great falling away and that God will allow this dilusion to happen.

I would say that I am carefully, cautious. I take little for granted in my faith. I am always testing doctrine against the Word and being cautious. I would rather be overly safe at this time, than to fall into some bad teaching.

That's me. You do need to have a little decrement too!

 

[Alive_Again]

I think all of us would just like to see the good. However, I feel that this is either the time or close to the time of the end of days. We are told in the bible that their will be a great falling away and that God will allow this dilusion to happen.

I would say that I am carefully, cautious. I take little for granted in my faith. I am always testing doctrine against the Word and being cautious. I would rather be overly safe at this time, than to fall into some bad teaching.

That's me. You do need to have a little decrement too!

I agree that it's good to be careful and not just receive anything. I was as surprised as everyone to find out that all of the acceptance of the end times was not for this current time. I've heard all of the warnings from respected ministers and bore witness to many revelations. I could see in the news how things are shaping up.

It was good news to find out that instead of the bad news simply accumulating into its downward progression and the end coming, that God is going to have a great day on the earth before all of this happens.

Nobody is going to force anyone to become a believer. In Jesus' day, neighboring towns would hear of what He did and they'd get all of their sick together and have a great confidence that He had the answer.

It's going to be same way again. If a local church had a lot of miracles going on it, you'd probably go over and pay them a visit. If they were going on in many places, you'd know it wasn't a minister thing, or a church thing, it would be a God thing!

Now the world who has been looking at the disputing church, the dry dead church the youth came out of when they were old enough to moan about it. People don't know where to go to find life, or if their is even really life.

Jesus said greater works would be done and have we seen those works? They have to come sometime.

People who believe in the urgency of the times should prepare themselves for His return, but in this case, the return is for a habitation to light the church on fire. It should still carry that urgency because that means seeing to all of the spots and wrinkles we pick up and give in to. It won't happen because of a "movement". I believe it is an observance of a "feast" and a great harvest will come from it. God told Kat Kerr to stop talking about the bad news and doom and gloom. It's a time of great excitement even in Heaven, because many preparations were and are being made for this great time.

It will be a great time, but it will also be a fearful time because when the anointing of God is strong in a place, you can't carry the mixture that often sets in into our lives. It's the strongholds that have been allowed to exist in our promised land (without destroying them) that is causing problems on our borders.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

I agree that it's good to be careful and not just receive anything. I was as surprised as everyone to find out that all of the acceptance of the end times was not for this current time. I've heard all of the warnings from respected ministers and bore witness to many revelations. I could see in the news how things are shaping up.

It was good news to find out that instead of the bad news simply accumulating into its downward progression and the end coming, that God is going to have a great day on the earth before all of this happens.

Nobody is going to force anyone to become a believer. In Jesus' day, neighboring towns would hear of what He did and they'd get all of their sick together and have a great confidence that He had the answer.

It's going to be same way again. If a local church had a lot of miracles going on it, you'd probably go over and pay them a visit. If they were going on in many places, you'd know it wasn't a minister thing, or a church thing, it would be a God thing!

Now the world who has been looking at the disputing church, the dry dead church the youth came out of when they were old enough to moan about it. People don't know where to go to find life, or if their is even really life.

Jesus said greater works would be done and have we seen those works? They have to come sometime.

People who believe in the urgency of the times should prepare themselves for His return, but in this case, the return is for a habitation to light the church on fire. It should still carry that urgency because that means seeing to all of the spots and wrinkles we pick up and give in to. It won't happen because of a "movement". I believe it is an observance of a "feast" and a great harvest will come from it. God told Kat Kerr to stop talking about the bad news and doom and gloom. It's a time of great excitement even in Heaven, because many preparations were and are being made for this great time.

It will be a great time, but it will also be a fearful time because when the anointing of God is strong in a place, you can't carry the mixture that often sets in into our lives. It's the strongholds that have been allowed to exist in our promised land (without destroying them) that is causing problems on our borders.

I don't believe that the great falling away has happened yet, nor the great delusion that God allows to occur to test His people.

I am not really on-board with all these prophets. I think they are shaping Christians perceptions of and understanding of God more than the Word has been in the last 15 years. I am not sure that it's a positive thing for the church.

 

[Alive_Again]

I don't believe that the great falling away has happened yet, nor the great delusion that God allows to occur to test His people.

From what Kat has seen, the spirit realm is going to interact more with the physical realm God's works are going to be more obvious and so will the enemy's.

As far as I know, the "great falling away" spoken of is during the tribulation (or maybe preceding it somewhat).

It's not really about making void any of the Biblical timeline. It's something that going to occur in this time. It won't escape your attention. It won't be anything we'll argue about. The key is the preparation time to receive that is now. It's to cultivate a new hope for a victorious living that is to be sustained for a long season.

We've kind of been "formed" by all of the events we've been watching and all of the preaching about the end. We've seen Israel come back and we see nuclear weapons and China and Russia and Korea, and now Iran. It's easy to put it all together. But the enemy would have us buy c-rations and go hide out. That is exactly the opposite of what God desires in this day and time.

It's a fresh message of hope and victory.

I am not really on-board with all these prophets. I think they are shaping Christians perceptions of and understanding of God more than the Word has been in the last 15 years. I am not sure that it's a positive thing for the church.

The thing is, it's all in the Word. Like so many to be fulfilled. So we can't say it's not in the Word.

As far as being on board with prophets, and being in tune with their message, it's very important to position yourself where there is a prophetic voice in your life. It's a vital ministry. You really want to get baptized in the Holy Spirit and so many things will be different to you.