Dominion and Dominionism Questions

[Alive_Again]

I frequently hear people diss "dominionism" like it has a full set of luggage (baggage) that comes with it.

1) What is dominionism? Don't mention any names! I just want to know what people associate about it. Obviously many people feel it violates certain scriptures? Which ones? (Don't just point me to a Youtube video because I don't want to hear any names.)

2) Tell me what you feel proper dominion is in the New Covenant? With as much authority the church has over the enemy and the charge God gave to Adam, it more than implies a proper and well balanced dominion. Let's explore what that is and leave the baggage as the wrong example and take up authority where it truly belongs.

I remember "debating" with atheists, and I'd say one thing you really couldn't deny and they had a clever "handle" that argument was called. If you mentioned it, they'd tag you with it as though that dismissed your inquiry.

If they cared at all they'd take the tag off and re-examine the question, because it was compelling and correct. Just because someone puts a derogatory association on something doesn't mean that it is wrong.

You're going to have to provide scripture in context. You're going to have to do it without making ANYONE in the Body of Christ look bad. No such luxury! If you can't do it without doing this, you're already wrong and have no leg to stand on whatsoever.

 

[RDKirk]

Why don't you state your own opinions of those two questions first?

 

[Alive_Again]

I don't know what "dominionism" is. I hear people talk about it like a "reject"stamp on a hunk of beef. People must be able to relate what they perceive is wrong and how it compares to scripture without dragging anyone through the mud.

Usually when people cut people down, they don't have a valid argument that will stand a presentation in the light.

If something is truly wrong with a claim made in the scripture, there must a correct view of it that is balanced and biblical. This is what we want to advance without just "resting" in a dismissal that seems to guard against knowledge.

I welcome anyone with the guts to bring their views. Just don't do it by dragging anybody else down in the process. For some this is impossible!

 

[RDKirk]

I don't know what "dominionism" is.

From Wikipedia:

Dominion Theology is a grouping of theological systems with the common belief that society should be governed exclusively by the law of God, as codified in the Bible. The two main streams of Dominion Theology are Christian Reconstructionism and Kingdom Now Theology. Though these two differ greatly in their general theological orientation (the first is strongly Reformed and Neo-Calvinistic, the second is Charismatic), they share a postmillennial vision in which the Kingdom of God will be established on Earth through political and (in some cases) military means.

Dominion Theology is seen by some as a subset of Dominionism, a theological form of political ideology, that some social scientists and journalists claim has broadly influenced the Christian Right in the United States, Canada, and Europe, within Protestant Christian evangelicalism and fundamentalism.

Dominionism is the alleged movement of politically active conservative Christians in the United States working toward either a nation governed by Christians or one governed by a conservative Christian understanding of biblical law.

The existence of a dominionist movement is challenged, particularly by those in the Christian Right, who generally avoid the label and see the characterizations as misleadingly implying that mainstream conservative Christians subscribe to Dominion Theology, a viewpoint held by a much smaller group of Christians explicitly advocating for a theocracy.

Apart from a handful of social scientists who first coined it, the terms dominionism and dominionist (when not referring to those subscribing to Dominion Theology) are almost exclusively used by journalists and bloggers.

The most prominent modern formulation of Dominion Theology is Christian Reconstructionism, founded by R. J. Rushdoony in the 1970s. Reconstructionists themselves use the word dominionism to refer to their belief that Christians alone should control civil government, conducting it according to Biblical l

 

[Tobias]

From Wikipedia:
The most prominent modern formulation of Dominion Theology is Christian Reconstructionism, founded by R. J. Rushdoony...

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



You named a name! No brownie points for you!!!

 

[RDKirk]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



You named a name! No brownie points for you!!!

I made no judgments, nor did the source I quoted.

 

[Tobias]

I made no judgments, nor did the source I quoted.

Opps. I misread the rules. My mistake.


I hope I didn't make you look bad...

 

[Yahu]

I frequently hear people diss "dominionism" like it has a full set of luggage (baggage) that comes with it.

1) What is dominionism? Don't mention any names! I just want to know what people associate about it. Obviously many people feel it violates certain scriptures? Which ones? (Don't just point me to a Youtube video because I don't want to hear any names.)

2) Tell me what you feel proper dominion is in the New Covenant? With as much authority the church has over the enemy and the charge God gave to Adam, it more than implies a proper and well balanced dominion. Let's explore what that is and leave the baggage as the wrong example and take up authority where it truly belongs.

I think dominionism is also labeled under 'Kingdom Now' theology.

I have run up against that form of it. It stems from a pretorist position on Revelation while trying to bring about the kingdom and the second coming by forcing the world to become more and more righteous to bring about that kingdom.

It is rooted in blatant misunderstanding of scripture as if the world is going to get more righteous instead of becoming so evil that Yah destroys it. The tactics used by Kingdom Now followers are the same tactics I have seen in use by covens to force their will over others. They usurp invalid authority over others and punish those that don't hold their own standards of Phariseeism. As a matter of fact, my sig came from a prophetic word directed at a girl that was attacking others as an 'acusor of the brethren' in an attempt to force them to her doctrinal position.

A good example of an organization that is trying to force righteousness onto the unbelievers is Right-to-Life with its goal to legislate biblical morality and force it onto the non-believers. They use blackmail and intimidation tactics on elected officials.

You don't use the tactics of the enemy to force righteousness onto others. The ends does NOT justify the means. It will cause the hatred and persecution of Christians for being meddlesome busybodies in the matters of the unbeliever's lives.

Yeshua declares the death of the children for Jezebels. Abortion is the curse on women that live as a Jezebel. Who are we to stop that curse from falling on them? You can't stop Jezebel by making abortion illegal. You have to attack the problem at the root, the immoral sexual activity that causes the problem.

Our positions of authority within the eternal kingdom is based on our Glorification, the rewards of positions of authority granted to the overcomers of errors within our walk.

Yes, we have dominion over the enemy realm to counter their works and goals. We do NOT have dominion over the people under their influence. Usurping invalid authority over other individuals is the root of witchcraft.

Kingdom Now theology is justification for Christian witchcraft in usurping invalid authority over others.

 

[RDKirk]

I think dominionism is also labeled under 'Kingdom Now' theology.

I have run up against that form of it. It stems from a pretorist position on Revelation while trying to bring about the kingdom and the second coming by forcing the world to become more and more righteous to bring about that kingdom.

It is rooted in blatant misunderstanding of scripture as if the world is going to get more righteous instead of becoming so evil that Yah destroys it. The tactics used by Kingdom Now followers are the same tactics I have seen in use by covens to force their will over others. They usurp invalid authority over others and punish those that don't hold their own standards of Phariseeism. As a matter of fact, my sig came from a prophetic word directed at a girl that was attacking others as an 'acusor of the brethren' in an attempt to force them to her doctrinal position.

A good example of an organization that is trying to force righteousness onto the unbelievers is Right-to-Life with its goal to legislate biblical morality and force it onto the non-believers. They use blackmail and intimidation tactics on elected officials.

You don't use the tactics of the enemy to force righteousness onto others. The ends does NOT justify the means. It will cause the hatred and persecution of Christians for being meddlesome busybodies in the matters of the unbeliever's lives.

Yeshua declares the death of the children for Jezebels. Abortion is the curse on women that live as a Jezebel. Who are we to stop that curse from falling on them? You can't stop Jezebel by making abortion illegal. You have to attack the problem at the root, the immoral sexual activity that causes the problem.

Our positions of authority within the eternal kingdom is based on our Glorification, the rewards of positions of authority granted to the overcomers of errors within our walk.

Yes, we have dominion over the enemy realm to counter their works and goals. We do NOT have dominion over the people under their influence. Usurping invalid authority over other individuals is the root of witchcraft.

Kingdom Now theology is justification for Christian witchcraft in usurping invalid authority over others.

I agree with all this. It's not the mission of the Body of Christ to force non-Christians to act like Christians using the king's sword (or the sheriff's gun).

But good catch about this being a pretorist position--even though most of them would deny it (if they even know what that is). I hear people proclaim dispensationism while acting pretorist all the time.

 

[Yahu]

I agree with all this. It's not the mission of the Body of Christ to force non-Christians to act like Christians using the king's sword (or the sheriff's gun).

But good catch about this being a pretorist position--even though most of them would deny it (if they even know what that is). I hear people proclaim dispensationism while acting pretorist all the time.

Well I have seen this up close and personal. My own eldest brother is deeply involved in Right-to-Life. He is actually involved in the current S. Dakota legislation. He was the state level director of Right-to-Life in our home state for many years.

He is NOT pretorist but holds the view that if we don't force people to righteousness, then Yah's curse we be on our entire nation and we will face His wrath as a nation. The point is, there is no way to force people to righteousness. His wrath will fall on this nation and the actions of Christians like him will drive people farther from Yah and bring about that wrath.

We are to be a light to the world, not generating that light by burning unbelievers at the stake or attacking the spiritual immature. You don't slap the spiritual babies to get them to grow up.

Because of my brother's positions, he has been put out of fellowship by both of his younger brothers for his operation as a meddlesome busybody in our lives. His hyper-Calvinism isn't welcome. For example, he sabotaged my marriage plans because he disapproved of my choice of wife.

 

[Alive_Again]

I think dominionism is also labeled under 'Kingdom Now' theology.

Now we're letting it all hang out! Are there other areas of society you believe this is occurring?

 

[Yahu]

Now we're letting it all hang out! Are there other areas of society you believe this is occurring?

Of course. Any situation you find someone attacked via tactics of the pit of hell to pressure people to religious standards is an example. A gossip in a church that spreads that gossip to punish someone for wrong doing is an example. They are usurping invalid authority over that individual to impose punishment without the authority to do so. That makes it a form of witchcraft for cursing the person's life.

I used Right-to-Life as an example. Instead of publishing someones stand on the abortion issues for candidates, they force them to agree to their stand or refuse to give them the RTL stamp of approval. For example a Catholic candidate can't follow the RCC's stand but must conform to a more rigid stand or risk being labeled not anti-abortion by RTL. They use blackmail to conform to their standards or face the consequences even if they are in 95% compliance. The RCC, for example, allows an exception in the case of pregnancy by rape.

Another example is attacking a couple living together in a monogamous relationship without a legal marriage. Biblically that is taking a concubine, not a wife. It isn't sin but many consider it so and attack individuals to keep them from sin. It is the attacker that is in sin trying to force their will over others without the authority to do so. This occurred with a girl I led to salvation. She was in college but would loose her father's financial support for college if she got married due to the conditions of her parent's divorce. She was living with her fiance after having exchanged private vows but was holding off on the legal wedding until after graduation. She was attacked by an elder of her church for 'living in sin'. Their pastor witnessed their vows then told the elder to butt out. They were not in sin.

Any attempt to force others to a higher religious standard based on the traditions of man is an example. It is an example of modern day Phariseeism. They expand on the actual law for believers or try to force non-believers to biblical law. It is the act of taking invalid dominion that is the problem.

 

[RDKirk]

This occurred with a girl I led to salvation. She was in college but would loose her father's financial support for college if she got married due to the conditions of her parent's divorce. She was living with her fiance after having exchanged private vows but was holding off on the legal wedding until after graduation. She was attacked by an elder of her church for 'living in sin'. Their pastor witnessed their vows then told the elder to butt out. They were not in sin.

According to Jesus, it would have been acceptable for that congregation to exact a higher standard if they had been willing to lift a finger to help bear the burden of it.

Well, no, not really.

Jesus was just making a point that those people who do create such burdens of over-righteousness will never be willing to help anyone bear them--because righteousness isn't really in their hearts. The desire for power and control is what's in their hearts.

 

[Alive_Again]

So we've heard some opinions about what "dominionism" is (or not supposed to be). It is obvious in the Word that some measure of dominion is to be established and exercised in the earth. So as not to just appear negative and critical, it would be good for those who have posted opinions about what it is not (or implied that it should not be), to state their views on what it is!

Feel free to use scripture, because it's a dangerous perspective in some parts of the forum to imply that dominion is a valid or legitimate thing (in its proper context). We want to remain above reproach.

 

[RDKirk]

So we've heard some opinions about what "dominionism" is (or not supposed to be). It is obvious in the Word that some measure of dominion is to be established and exercised in the earth. So as not to just appear negative and critical, it would be good for those who have posted opinions about what it is not (or implied that it should not be), to state their views on what it is!

This is what dominion once was:

The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it.

Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. -- Genesis 2:19

If you'll notice through scripture, "dominion" is often indicated by the ritual of naming that which one has dominion over. Thus, Nebuchadnezzar renamed the Hebrews placed into his court and Jesus renamed Simon.

Adam had dominion over creation in the same way Jesus--the "second Adam" as scripture describes Him--does. Adam could say, "Mouse, come here," and the mouse would do so. Just as Jesus could calm a storm or wither a fig tree with a word, Adam could say, "Mountain, move over there," and the mountain would move. He could say, "Grass, grow here," and the grass would grow where it was commanded. That is what dominion is in scripture.

Adam's dominion was recognized by creation. He did not have to sweat, capture, dig, beat, snare, trap, work at dominion.

Man no longer has that dominion.

To Adam he said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, 'You must not eat from it,' "Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat food from it all the days of your life. It will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you will eat the plants of the field. By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return....

The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them....

So the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken.-- Genesis 3

Efforts by men to take dominion by force of carnal weapons is typical of the sinful man, trying to gain through his own works what had been given by God.

The dominion that God gave Adam has been taken away, and is not going to be regained until Christ returns.

 

[Yahu]

So we've heard some opinions about what "dominionism" is (or not supposed to be). It is obvious in the Word that some measure of dominion is to be established and exercised in the earth. So as not to just appear negative and critical, it would be good for those who have posted opinions about what it is not (or implied that it should not be), to state their views on what it is!

Feel free to use scripture, because it's a dangerous perspective in some parts of the forum to imply that dominion is a valid or legitimate thing (in its proper context). We want to remain above reproach.

I did post our dominion. We have ALL AUTHORITY over the forces of the enemy. Mankind has dominion over the earth and the beasts. Yes most of mankind yields that dominion to the enemy. Husbands have dominion over wives. Parents have dominion over their children. Nations have dominion over their citizens.

Those are valid dominions. Christians trying to take over the earth for the kingdom are not serving Yah. It is the enemy that tries to usurp invalid dominion. It is a Jezebel that tries to usurp authority over her husband, an Ahab. It is a criminal that rebells against his national laws, ie the lawless. It is the rebellious child that refuses the dominion of the parent.

Here on earth, those that will be great in the coming kingdom are those that serve. Those that attempt rulership as the gentiles are the least. All the kingdom builders here will be the least in the coming kingdom.

We draw people to Yah out of our love, not out of force to gain control over their lives.

 

[Yahu]

Feel free to use scripture, because it's a dangerous perspective in some parts of the forum to imply that dominion is a valid or legitimate thing (in its proper context). We want to remain above reproach.

Do you really need scriptures for commonly understood concepts? For example, man's dominion over the earth, Gen 1.

 

[Yahu]

The desire for power and control is what's in their hearts.

Exactly my point. Imposing invalid control is what witchcraft is all about. Rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, why? Rebellion is rejection of a valid authority. Witchcraft is usurping invalid authority. A wife that rejects her husband's authority is in rebellion. If she tries to impose her will over her husband, it is witchcraft. Witchcraft and rebellion go hand in hand. They are basically flip sides of the same coin.

Paganistic witchcraft is taking invalid authority over spiritual forces by worshiping higher level spirits to get lower level spirits to serve you. Again it is an invalid usurpation of authority by forbidden means.

 

[Yahu]

1) What is dominionism?

As a doctrine, it is justification for witchcraft.

 

[Yahu]

Man no longer has that dominion.

The dominion that God gave Adam has been taken away, and is not going to be regained until Christ returns.

Nonsense. If man doesn't have dominion over the earth, Yah is a liar!

Ge 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Most of mankind voluntarily surrenders that dominion to the enemy. We NEVER lost the dominion. Yeshua came in the form of a man, meeting all the requirements to gain dominion back over the earth as a man. It was REQUIRED that He become a man to regain the dominion that was given to man.

When he opens the sealed book in Revelation, he takes that dominion as his rightful possession. That is the sealed copy of the deed to the earth. He then takes total rulership over the earth by having met the requirements for inheritance as a man. His bride also gains inheritance in that kingdom for our meeting the requirements set by Yah.

There is only ONE way the enemy can have valid dominion on the earth. That is to be born on the earth as a man.

The concept that we ever lost dominion is a bold faced lie propagated by the enemy in an attempt to steal that dominion from us. It is by deception that the enemy gains our dominion.