Did God order a chosen people to mass murder children?

[truthpls]

Read your own post.

You were not clear

 

[truthpls]

Can't do that when they have the populous for sheilds.

My comment was about Israel repenting and being saved in the end. So try to relate your posts somehow

 

[ralliann]

No. There is no thread need to establish Hamas as terrorists. No news there. This thread is about whether the terror of Israel is to be blamed on God.

Israelis engaged in war, Hamas are terrorists.

 

[truthpls]

No Hamas is guilty. It has nothing to do with being chosen unless you are talking about Hamas.

You never heard that some people, including preachers claim that Israel is chosen of God and is worthy of support etc? If you admit that they are just like anyone else, then fine. If not, then support the position. No diversions needed

 

[ralliann]

My comment was about Israel repenting and being saved in the end. So try to relate your posts somehow

Your post is about condemning Israel for self defense

 

[truthpls]

Israelis engaged in war, Hamas are terrorists.

And is Israel chosen of God unlike all other nations?

 

[truthpls]

Your post is about condemning Israel for self defense

No it is about not calling mass murder of children 'self defense'. But do you think it is justified because Israel is 'chosen'?

 

[ralliann]

You never heard that some people, including preachers claim that Israel is chosen of God and is worthy of support etc? If you admit that they are just like anyone else, then fine. If not, then support the position. No diversions needed

No diversions. Israel is responding to what Hamas did, what Hamas has declared they will continue to do.

 

[truthpls]

No diversions. Israel is responding to what Hamas did, what Hamas has declared they will continue to do.

Are they doing it because they are chosen?

 

[ralliann]

And is Israel chosen of God unlike all other nations?

Yes, but that has nothing to do with righteousness as a nation.

Do you get this at all?

Deut. 20:10 ¶ When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it.
11 And it shall be, if it make thee answer of peace, and open unto thee, then it shall be, that all the people that is found therein shall be tributaries unto thee, and they shall serve thee.

Again

Do you get this?

Ex 5:3 And they said, The God of the Hebrews hath met with us: let us go, we pray thee, three days’ journey into the desert, and sacrifice unto the LORD our God; lest he fall upon us with pestilence, or with the sword.
Ex 8:27 We will go three days’ journey into the wilderness, and sacrifice to the LORD our God, as he shall command us.

Do you understand the common righteousness All men understand????? Called natural law

Israel never gave any reason what so ever for these to treat Israel the way they did. These nations were wicked.....

Egypt, just three days to go worship their God...
The nations, just sell us provisions, and let us pass by.....

De 23:3 An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of the LORD for ever:
4 Because they met you not with bread and with water in the way, when ye came forth out of Egypt; and because they hired against thee Balaam the son of Beor of Pethor of Mesopotamia, to curse thee.

Israel has done nothing to these Arab nations to have them attack, Including the Palestinians.

 

[partinobodycular]

But do you think it is justified because Israel is 'chosen'?

This is what you don't seem to be grasping... the answer is NO... Israel isn't justified because they're chosen... they're justified because they're defending themselves.

The question of whether they're chosen or not has nothing to do with it. The two things are completely unrelated, under the same circumstances any nation would be justified.

If you would like to know if Israel is chosen... just ask, but since you're specifically asking if they're justified BECAUSE THEY'RE CHOSEN then the answer is an unequivocal NO!!!

 

[truthpls]

Yes, but that has nothing to do with righteousness as a nation.

Do you get this at all?

Deut. 20:10 ¶ When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it.
11 And it shall be, if it make thee answer of peace, and open unto thee, then it shall be, that all the people that is found therein shall be tributaries unto thee, and they shall serve thee.

ZERO to do with unbelievers and Israel today.

Again

Do you get this?

Ex 5:3 And they said, The God of the Hebrews hath met with us: let us go, we pray thee, three days’ journey into the desert, and sacrifice unto the LORD our God; lest he fall upon us with pestilence, or with the sword.
Ex 8:27 We will go three days’ journey into the wilderness, and sacrifice to the LORD our God, as he shall command us.

Zero to do with modern Israel. That was talking to believers.

Do you understand the common righteousness All men understand????? Called natural law

Israel never gave any reason what so ever for these to treat Israel the way they did. These nations were wicked.....

No one asked if Israel was pure and innocent. The issue is whether they are chosen of God and special. The answer is no, they are unbelievers that are not eligible for blessings and land and protection from God etc. Just like Palestinians etc. Actually there may be more saved Palestinians.

Egypt, just three days to go worship their God...
The nations, just sell us provisions, and let us pass by.....

De 23:3 An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of the LORD for ever:
4 Because they met you not with bread and with water in the way, when ye came forth out of Egypt; and because they hired against thee Balaam the son of Beor of Pethor of Mesopotamia, to curse thee.

Nothing that applies to unbelievers. Period. Trying to associate modern Israel with that is absurd.

Israel has done nothing to these Arab nations to have them attack, Including the Palestinians.

So? Not the topic.

 

[ralliann]

ZERO to do with unbelievers and Israel today.

Zero to do with modern Israel. That was talking to believers.

No one asked if Israel was pure and innocent. The issue is whether they are chosen of God and special. The answer is no, they are unbelievers that are not eligible for blessings and land and protection from God etc. Just like Palestinians etc. Actually there may be more saved Palestinians.

Nothing that applies to unbelievers. Period. Trying to associate modern Israel with that is absurd.


So? Not the topic.

Israel is protecting Itself, just like any other nation on this earth. The answer as others have already said is no.

 

[truthpls]

This is what you don't seem to be grasping... the answer is NO... Israel isn't justified because they're chosen... they're justified because they're defending themselves.

Except they are not chosen now. They are the chosen people in rebellion and unbelief. Not eligible for anything from God, except the promised time of trial in the end. So they are not being attacked because they are chosen. I would guess because they stole and mistreated neighbors are reasons they are attacked. The thing is that as a nation like any other one on earth, they have no rights to that land now. Only after they believe will God give it to them and protect them.

The question of whether they're chosen or not has nothing to do with it. The two things are completely unrelated, under the same circumstances any nation would be justified.

Everything to do with it. If they are merely crooks and bullies that took the land and committed mass murder, then they get no special favor or sympathy for their actions.

If you would like to know if Israel is chosen... just ask, but since you're specifically asking if they're justified BECAUSE THEY'RE CHOSEN then the answer is an unequivocal NO!!!

They were chosen and lost their position by rejecting Jesus. They are now just unbelievers. You seem to be saying that any wicked nation has a right to mass murder children if they are attacked.

 

[truthpls]

Israel is protecting Itself, just like any other nation on this earth. The answer as others have already said is no.

Then you are welcome to defend them on that level. The poem in the OP was about people doing bad things in the name of God and because they say they were chosen.

 

[Chris35]

An eye for an eye is just, how can it not be?

A life for a life is just how can it not be?

Self defense is just.

However if we call on God to be just, we end up condemning ourself, because if we expect others to pay for their sins, surely it is also just that we pay for our own also, or how would it be just?

However Jesus teaches another way. Love your enemies, do good to those that hate you.

We have examples in the nt where the pharasiees went to stone Jesus, and Jesus somehow always managed to slip away. Again, it would of been just that Jesus killed them instead, in self defense, but Jesus shows another way.

Jesus answered, “My Kingdom is not an earthly kingdom. If it were, my followers would fight to keep me from being handed over to the Jewish leaders. But my Kingdom is not of this world.”


In my opinion the Godly way for Israel to of acted would of been to fast, pray and turn to God, to deal with the situation rather then lean on their own military might.

We have examples in the ot, where God has put whole armies to sleep, when God steps in the war is over very quickly.


Here from revelations 13:10
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

51With that, one of Jesus’ companions reached for his sword, drew it out and struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his ear.

52“Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword. 53Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels?


Again Jesus shows us a different way.

The Israel / Hamas war is another earthly war, but those who are Christian should learn not to act this way.


1 Corinthians 5:12
12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”

The only advice i can give is to stay away from this whole topic, and work on loving others.

 

[partinobodycular]

You seem to be saying that any wicked nation has a right to mass murder children if they are attacked.

Sorry, but I don't like having discussions with irrational people... so bye.

 

[Robban]

Yes. and also in unbelief and not eligible for the promises yet

Abraham the father of faith. Us is believers. In this case particularly Jewish believers. That is NOT Israel today. You may not apply that to them. The time God promises too restore them is after they accept Jesus in the end. Period.

Whatever they do, they do as unbelievers.

No. God allows MOST of them to die in the end and only a remnant are all saved. He will separate the sheep from the goats in Israel. They are not one any more than the world is one.

I totally agree. Kill the criminal, not the population.

Do you think that tn and with JC God has changed His mind?

That would mean all who lived 3,000 plus years earlier are lost.

Anyone can believe anything but to put trust in something is another matter.

 

[truthpls]

Sorry, but I don't like having discussions with irrational people... so bye.

I have no time for unclear wigglers

 

[truthpls]

Do you think that tn and with JC God has changed His mind?

That would mean all who lived 3,000 plus years earlier are lost.

Anyone can believe anything but to put trust in something is another matter.

He never said that people can depart from Him and sin and be wicked and still have all the blessings. All who have believed in Jesus in the last few thousand years are His people. The ones before that believed also Jesus would come and so were saved. God also promises a certain seven years in which Israel will be going through trials to eventually be saved. So nothing was in vain. The thing is that right now Israel is not His people who believe and are eligible for the promised land etc.