Crucifixion Dating of Jesus Christ

[cfposter]

So, relative to this response, I'm just going to stop discussing this with you. The Gospels say what they say. The history and culture is what it is. All this stuff you're saying . . . it's not supported by any fact whatsoever. You seriously don't know what you're talking about. The passover was killed on the 14th. Mark and Luke both say that the afternoon preceding the last supper was the day when the passover was killed. They ate the last supper on the 14th. Since he was crucified the next day, he was crucified on the 15th.

And that's it. I'm done.

The Passover lamb is killed on the 14th. Jesus was killed on the 14th. But the Passover meal that Jesus ate was not the 14th. Think about it yourself. The Passover lamb is killed and then they eat that evening and nothing remains till morning. So tell me how you believe that Jesus can be eating the Passover meal on the 14th when He has to eat it in the evening - Which means it would be the 15th (Feast of Unleavened Bread). If Jesus is Crucified on the 15th, then He is not the Messiah. John the Baptist called Him the Lamb of God. The Passover Lambs were not killed on the 15th but on the 14th.

Exo 12:6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.
Exo 12:7 And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.
Exo 12:8 And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.

 

[AFrazier]

The Passover lamb is killed on the 14th. Jesus was killed on the 14th. But the Passover meal that Jesus ate was not the 14th. Think about it yourself. The Passover lamb is killed and then they eat that evening and nothing remains till morning. So tell me how you believe that Jesus can be eating the Passover meal on the 14th when He has to eat it in the evening - Which means it would be the 15th (Feast of Unleavened Bread). If Jesus is Crucified on the 15th, then He is not the Messiah. John the Baptist called Him the Lamb of God. The Passover Lambs were not killed on the 15th but on the 14th.

Exo 12:6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.
Exo 12:7 And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.
Exo 12:8 And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.

The gospels are clear that Jesus ate the passover. The passover was eaten on the evening of the 14th. It was illegal to do otherwise. Jesus died the next day. He died on the 15th. I'm not going to dispute gospel fact with you.

 

[cfposter]

I disagree. You are not well educated on the subject. The Jews did use the new moon to establish the start of each month. If you were well educated on the subject, you would know that that is the fact of the matter.

And I wouldn't quote the Didiscalia Apostolorum. It's far removed from the gospel time period, and it has a number of errancies.

I highly regard the Didascalia Apostolorum. You say I'm not well educated but conclude that only on the basis that my understanding is DIFFERENT than yours because you haven't provided any other evidence to support your position or thoroughly vetted mine.

 

[cfposter]

The gospels are clear that Jesus ate the passover. The passover was eaten on the evening of the 14th. It was illegal to do otherwise. Jesus died the next day. He died on the 15th. I'm not going to dispute gospel fact with you.

You are wrong. The High Sabbath was the 15th. The Feast is the High Day:

Joh 19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

You see Jesus was already crucified on the day BEFORE the Sabbath. Therefore, Jesus was crucified on the 14th. The Feast Day is the High Sabbath day. No where does the Bible say that the Passover lamb is killed on the 15th. I do not know of any historical text that says such.

So the Gospel fact above is disputing you.

 

[AFrazier]

I highly regard the Didascalia Apostolorum. You say I'm not well educated but conclude that only on the basis that my understanding is DIFFERENT than yours because you haven't provided any other evidence to support your position or thoroughly vetted mine.

You're mistaken. Your position has been vetted by your own mouth. I've been researching this stuff for almost thirty years. When someone says something that is incorrect, and I know it's incorrect, and I know why it's incorrect, and I know what correct actually is, then I am thoroughly informed of the person's lack of education in the subject. Your "understanding" is different from mine because mine is correct, based on hard fact and decades of research, and yours is not correct, because it lacks any credible substantiation.

Furthermore, I did my share of minor back-and-forths with you. Instead of listening to what informed people have to say, you display hubris instead, thinking you, and you alone, have the right of it, while all the people who have put countless years into the subject are all blind and mistaken. You demonstrated that you aren't a person willing to listen to reason. So, spending my valuable time to cite sources and express logical arguments would be a fool's errand. All you'll do is ignore my hard work and argue with me. I've seen this scenario enough times to know better than to engage in a vain argument.

I'm just going to break it to you with tough love. You're wrong. Everything you're saying is wrong. It's not even close to right. And if you choose to persist in your speculation, you'll be met with contention from now 'til the day you stop preaching it. No person with an ounce of education in this subject will ever yield to your outlandish, grossly incorrect speculations. You're just wrong. And I have no patience to argue with you.

 

[AFrazier]

You are wrong. The High Sabbath was the 15th. The Feast is the High Day:

Joh 19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

You see Jesus was already crucified on the day BEFORE the Sabbath. Therefore, Jesus was crucified on the 14th. The Feast Day is the High Sabbath day. No where does the Bible say that the Passover lamb is killed on the 15th. I do not know of any historical text that says such.

So the Gospel fact above is disputing you.

I never said the passover was killed on the 15th. I said that Jesus was killed on the 15th. And I said that because the gospels say that. Again, I'm not going to argue fact with you. My initial post on this thread gave the scriptures. The afternoon preceding the last supper was the day when the passover was sacrificed. That's scripture. Two disciples were sent to procure a room, and to prepare the passover. That's scripture. Jesus said that he would keep the passover at the goodman's house. That's scripture. Peter and John made ready the passover. That's scripture. At the appointed time, Jesus and the others came and ate the passover. That's scripture. The passover is on the 14th. That's scripture. Jesus died the next day. That's scripture.

Furthermore, John doesn't say that the day after the crucifixion was a high sabbath. He said that it was a high day on which the sabbath would fall. And since the 16th is the waving of the sheaf and firstfruits, I would say that that sabbath was a high day.

 

[cfposter]

I never said the passover was killed on the 15th. I said that Jesus was killed on the 15th. And I said that because the gospels say that. Again, I'm not going to argue fact with you. My initial post on this thread gave the scriptures. The afternoon preceding the last supper was the day when the passover was sacrificed. That's scripture. Two disciples were sent to procure a room, and to prepare the passover. That's scripture. Jesus said that he would keep the passover at the goodman's house. That's scripture. Peter and John made ready the passover. That's scripture. At the appointed time, Jesus and the others came and ate the passover. That's scripture. The passover is on the 14th. That's scripture. Jesus died the next day. That's scripture.

Furthermore, John doesn't say that the day after the crucifixion was a high sabbath. He said that it was a high day on which the sabbath would fall. And since the 16th is the waving of the sheaf and firstfruits, I would say that that sabbath was a high day.

Jesus is the Passover LAMB. If He was killed on the 15th then He wouldn't be killed during the Preparation and not qualify as the Messiah and the Gospels don't say that He was killed on the Feast of Unleavened Bread. In fact, on the contrary the Priests said NOT on the Feast Day:

Mat_26:5 But they said, Not on the feast day, lest there be an uproar among the people.

Yes, the Passover was Traditionally sacrificed on the day before the Feast. I agree that is scripture. But the Gospels record that a different schedule occurred. The Passover was allowed to be eaten before and at the traditional time. Therefore, this should tell us that the Priests had appointed more than one time to observe the event.

 

[cfposter]

You're mistaken. Your position has been vetted by your own mouth. I've been researching this stuff for almost thirty years. When someone says something that is incorrect, and I know it's incorrect, and I know why it's incorrect, and I know what correct actually is, then I am thoroughly informed of the person's lack of education in the subject. Your "understanding" is different from mine because mine is correct, based on hard fact and decades of research, and yours is not correct, because it lacks any credible substantiation.

Furthermore, I did my share of minor back-and-forths with you. Instead of listening to what informed people have to say, you display hubris instead, thinking you, and you alone, have the right of it, while all the people who have put countless years into the subject are all blind and mistaken. You demonstrated that you aren't a person willing to listen to reason. So, spending my valuable time to cite sources and express logical arguments would be a fool's errand. All you'll do is ignore my hard work and argue with me. I've seen this scenario enough times to know better than to engage in a vain argument.

I'm just going to break it to you with tough love. You're wrong. Everything you're saying is wrong. It's not even close to right. And if you choose to persist in your speculation, you'll be met with contention from now 'til the day you stop preaching it. No person with an ounce of education in this subject will ever yield to your outlandish, grossly incorrect speculations. You're just wrong. And I have no patience to argue with you.

But I'm showing you're are refuted. I do listen to what informed people say but I don't take that to mean they hold Truth just as nobody should have taken the Pharisees to be righteous who were the elders in the faith of the Jews. I should be met with contention if I'm preaching the Truth. For this world hates it.

Again, you said Jesus was killed on the 15th. That would be the Feast day. The Pharisees said they would not kill Him on the Feast day. You're refuted. Also, you say your a position in line with those that have an ounce of education on this subject but yet to show me who teaches such a thing of Jesus being crucified on the 15th or where such information is derived from the scriptures.

 

[prodromos]

You are wrong. The High Sabbath was the 15th. The Feast is the High Day:

There is no such thing as a "high Sabbath"

 

[cfposter]

I never said the passover was killed on the 15th. I said that Jesus was killed on the 15th. And I said that because the gospels say that. Again, I'm not going to argue fact with you. My initial post on this thread gave the scriptures. The afternoon preceding the last supper was the day when the passover was sacrificed. That's scripture. Two disciples were sent to procure a room, and to prepare the passover. That's scripture. Jesus said that he would keep the passover at the goodman's house. That's scripture. Peter and John made ready the passover. That's scripture. At the appointed time, Jesus and the others came and ate the passover. That's scripture. The passover is on the 14th. That's scripture. Jesus died the next day. That's scripture.

Furthermore, John doesn't say that the day after the crucifixion was a high sabbath. He said that it was a high day on which the sabbath would fall. And since the 16th is the waving of the sheaf and firstfruits, I would say that that sabbath was a high day.

Also, The Feast of Unleavened Bread, Feast of Weeks, the Feast of Tabernacles always fall on a HIGH Day which is always a Sabbath day and the weekly sabbath day. Additionally, in John it says that the day before that High Day was the preparation. That means the day before was the 6th day of the week. And that 6th day was the 14th of the month. So again, the scriptures are refuting you here.

Joh 19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

 

[cfposter]

There is no such thing as a "high Sabbath"

Yes, it was referred to as High Day but it was a Weekly Sabbath Day on which a Feast Day occurred.

 

[prodromos]

Yes, it was referred to as High Day but it was a Weekly Sabbath Day on which a Feast Day occurred.

It happened to fall on the Sabbath that year.

 

[cfposter]

It happened to fall on the Sabbath that year.

The Feast of Unleavened Bread would be a High Day in any year because it always falls on a weekly Sabbath.

 

[AFrazier]

Jesus is the Passover LAMB. If He was killed on the 15th then He wouldn't be killed during the Preparation and not qualify as the Messiah and the Gospels don't say that He was killed on the Feast of Unleavened Bread. In fact, on the contrary the Priests said NOT on the Feast Day:

Mat_26:5 But they said, Not on the feast day, lest there be an uproar among the people.

Yes, the Passover was Traditionally sacrificed on the day before the Feast. I agree that is scripture. But the Gospels record that a different schedule occurred. The Passover was allowed to be eaten before and at the traditional time. Therefore, this should tell us that the Priests had appointed more than one time to observe the event.

You see, you demonstrate the point I made. Discussing this with you is a fool's errand. The scripture is plain as day. If it hit you in the face like a sledge hammer, it couldn't be any more plain. And yet, here you are . . . arguing with it. You are trying to determine blatantly stated history by theology. The gospels say he ate the passover. He died the next day. What part of this doesn't compute with you? Where are you getting the notion that there was a passover earlier than the passover? This is one of those vetting moments. What you're suggesting is ludicrous. It didn't happen.

The afternoon preceding the last supper was the first day of unleavened bread, when the passover was killed. This is the 14th. This is not debatable. If you say otherwise, you're wrong. I don't care what theological application you want to put to Jesus Christ. He was our passover. But he still died on the 15th. Three gospels say so.

YOU ARE MISTAKEN.

 

[cfposter]

You see, you demonstrate the point I made. Discussing this with you is a fool's errand. The scripture is plain as day. If it hit you in the face like a sledge hammer, it couldn't be any more plain. And yet, here you are . . . arguing with it. You are trying to determine blatantly stated history by theology. The gospels say he ate the passover. He died the next day. What part of this doesn't compute with you? Where are you getting the notion that there was a passover earlier than the passover? This is one of those vetting moments. What you're suggesting is ludicrous. It didn't happen.

The afternoon preceding the last supper was the first day of unleavened bread, when the passover was killed. This is the 14th. This is not debatable. If you say otherwise, you're wrong. I don't care what theological application you want to put to Jesus Christ. He was our passover. But he still died on the 15th. Three gospels say so.

YOU ARE MISTAKEN.

Ok, let me start listening. You said that Jesus died on the 15th. Can you show me where it says that in the scriptures? If not, can you show me where you're seeing that He died the next day after He ate the passover?

 

[prodromos]

The Feast of Unleavened Bread would be a High Day in any year because it always falls on a weekly Sabbath.

No it doesn't.

 

[cfposter]

No it doesn't.

Show me that it doesn't.

 

[prodromos]

Show me that it doesn't.

For starters, food preparation was allowed, unless it fell on the Sabbath, in which case the normal practise of preparing food the day before was observed.

 

[cfposter]

For starters, food preparation was allowed, unless it fell on the Sabbath, in which case the normal practise of preparing food the day before was observed.

Again, the Feast of Unleavened Bread was always a High Day and Weekly Sabbath. The preparation day for it would be the day before just like for any weekly Sabbath.

 

[prodromos]

Again, the Feast of Unleavened Bread was always a High Day and Weekly Sabbath. The preparation day for it would be the day before just like for any weekly Sabbath.

Nope. Not a weekly Sabbath. You've not demonstrated any evidence to support your claim.