Confession-olotry?

[ottaia]

Jenna,

So often I hear the logic, "The Bible said it. I believe it. That settles it." That logic must deal with the whole Bible, sexism, shrimp, and all because the Bible said these things too. I find this response to be simplistic. I have found that people lose faith becuase of these responses. I often feel that the responses of some people in CF is more a matter of "putting it to the heathen" rather than helping (as in a response where someone refered to me as "Buddy boy", I find that demeaning. It would be similar to me calling you "little lady".).

We do pick and choose how we interpret the Bible. We pick and choose what rules we uphold. We need to be aware of that. We need to observe our process in making the choices. I use the Brats and sitting with the wife as an example because we generally choose to not uphold these rules. If we say everything in the Bible is the truth, then why do we not uphold these rules?

Find the forum on "Why I lost my faith." Read the stories with an open mind and non-judgementally. Ask yourself, "How do I bring the gospel to this person now that God has brought him or her to my attention. How do I not continue to not keep ripping the wound open?" You can write these persons off or you can recognize that they are also loved creatures of God that have been hurt by other loved creatures of God.

 

[Jenna]

So often I hear the logic, "The Bible said it. I believe it. That settles it." That logic must deal with the whole Bible, sexism, shrimp, and all because the Bible said these things too. I find this response to be simplistic.

Ottaia, there are times when we can choose to study to try and understand WHY God has said some things are good and some things are not. However, there will always be things that are beyond our comprehension, and areas where God has chosen not to give us answers, for what I can only assume is to give us room to exercise stepping out in faith.

I think that many times it is helpful to look and see why God says what He does, but in the end it really does come down to "He said it, it is true". From that point, we either choose to take what we do know and take that leap of faith for the rest, or we abandon the truth as foolishness. It is always good to have discussion, but are any of our personal opinions, leanings, or emotions on par with what God has to say? No. So, if a person truly wishes to settle a matter, it makes logical sense to turn directly to God's word.

Now, I'm not one for dubbing people "nicknames" as a way to make anyone feel inferior. You can feel free to call me "little lady" any which way though. *laughs* There are far worse things to be called than a lady. I understand where you are coming from though, and I think that sometimes folks let their tempers get the better of them. It's not right, but it's hard for many people to hear things from a brother in Christ that seemingly challenge God's word. It is understandable that people become very passionate when confronted with statements that are such an affront. You have to understand that people are going to naturally expect you to have a better understanding of God's word than an unbeliever does. Folks are less likely to beat around the bush and use a plethora of euphemisms. It may not seem as much of a positive point, but I see it as a great thing that at least folks are being transparent and honest. It is so much more confusing when people do not say what they mean, and mean what they say.

 

[ottaia]

I think that many times it is helpful to look and see why God says what He does, but in the end it really does come down to "He said it, it is true". From that point, we either choose to take what we do know and take that leap of faith for the rest, or we abandon the truth as foolishness. It is always good to have discussion, but are any of our personal opinions, leanings, or emotions on par with what God has to say? No. So, if a person truly wishes to settle a matter, it makes logical sense to turn directly to God's word.

I am not understanding how you are addressing the "truth" of Levitical laws that we choose to not follow (stick with the easy ones, pork, shellfish, mixed fabrics, mixed planting). If we disregarad these, how can we say the bible is inerrant?

I am not asking this to be nitpicky, I just find it incongruous. I am not saying that we disreagard the Bible, I am saying that the Bible is a living document. If we keep it locked in the past, it ceases to speak to us. We pick and choose but are not honest about it. Cannot the Spirit give us new understanding for a time that the writers of the Scriptures could not even imagine?

 

[Jenna]

I am not understanding how you are addressing the "truth" of Levitical laws that we choose to not follow (stick with the easy ones, pork, shellfish, mixed fabrics, mixed planting). If we disregarad these, how can we say the bible is inerrant?

I am not asking this to be nitpicky, I just find it incongruous. I am not saying that we disreagard the Bible, I am saying that the Bible is a living document. If we keep it locked in the past, it ceases to speak to us. We pick and choose but are not honest about it. Cannot the Spirit give us new understanding for a time that the writers of the Scriptures could not even imagine?

When I was speaking of God's truth, I was speaking of scripture on a whole, not simply the levitical laws. I, personally, have no problem with a person having a different understanding of scripture, so long as it is not in conflict with the rest of scripture. *chuckles* A person can look at the very same verse numerous times in their life and learn different lessons about themselves and the nature of God. So long as they are not distorting what God has actually given us, I have no qualms. Examples may be so simple as God's will for married life, and how husbands and wives relate to each other. One day it may help a couple make it through a trying time, or steer them clear of one. On another day, it may speak strongly to them about the relationship between Christ and His bride, the Church. In this way, I believe that the Word is "living" and fits into every aspect of our lives, no matter how often we read it and/or apply it.

In reference to the levitical laws, there seems to be misunderstanding as to whether or not they are applicable and/or edifying. Though we are no longer condemned by the law, this does not mean that it does not have value. Whether we are talking about eating animals that are not very healthy for our bodys, bathing practices, etc. these do not become empty words because are are not damned by our innability to fulfill the law. What we do have is the freedom to embrace God's Word (all of it) and do our very best to do all that is pleasing to the Lord, because of our love. For some, that means that they take care with how they eat, because they know that God's word holds great wisdom as to what foods will give us health and long life. For others, they see wisdom in how God would have us plant our fields and/or leave them fallow. Will we lose salvation because we do not manage to do everything perfectly? Of course not. It's only by the power of the Lord that we can do anything that is pleasing to God anyway, and our failures are overcome by Christ. It doesn't make the law less valuable, nor God's word irrelevant because we choose not to utilize it in the way that it was given. Just because we are full of errors, it doesn't mean that the bible is in error. Isn't that the point, that we'll never get it right, but that God loves us enough to give us a way breach the gap between us (Christ)?

 

[Protoevangel]

Do you really find it that easy to just accept eveything as is? Didn't God give us minds to think? You quote every jot and tittle but I am willing to bet you enjoy a good shrimp cocktail (or Brat, or your wife sitting next to you in worship) every now and then. If you do, then you are either unrepentent or you are admitting in your life that parts of the Bible are not as relavant as others.

The Law is good and Holy, it is absolutely relevant and good, in it’s own sphere and context. But the Law does not justify anyone. It does not tell me how I may be freed from my sins and escape Hell. The purpose of the Law is to show us just how wretched and far from God's Holiness we really are, forcing us to admit our need for a Savior. Unfortunately, most people never allow themselves to comprehend this. People become focused on the things they do right, and ignore the parts of the law that doesn’t stroke their ego. I cannot keep the Law, and even if I could keep the letter, I could never truly keep it in my heart. For that reason, the only hope I have is Christ, and it is to Him that I let the Law drive me. That does not make one part less relevant than others.

Now, stop calling me a brat!

 

[Protoevangel]

So often I hear the logic, "The Bible said it. I believe it. That settles it." That logic must deal with the whole Bible, sexism, shrimp, and all because the Bible said these things too. I find this response to be simplistic. I have found that people lose faith becuase of these responses.

The Bible said it. I believe it. That settles it. Simplistic? Yea, maybe. But I am a simple man; my rationality is just as broken and sinful as the rest of me. I am not wiser than God, who gave us His Word. If people loose faith because of such a statement of childlike devotion, because of anything you or I say, it certainly was not a true faith that was lost. Human words cannot negate a gift given by God himself. True faith is a living, energizing, motivating power, based in God’s Word, not mans.

I often feel that the responses of some people in CF is more a matter of "putting it to the heathen" rather than helping (as in a response where someone refered to me as "Buddy boy", I find that demeaning. It would be similar to me calling you "little lady".).

I have been guilty of this kind of demeaning speech as well. If I have used this kind of language in dealing with you, please forgive me.

We do pick and choose how we interpret the Bible. We pick and choose what rules we uphold. We need to be aware of that. We need to observe our process in making the choices. I use the Brats and sitting with the wife as an example because we generally choose to not uphold these rules. If we say everything in the Bible is the truth, then why do we not uphold these rules?

There are two basic ways we interpret the Bible.
1.) We put the Bible in the defendant’s chair, and let it tell its story. We believe that which we decide to believe, and toss aside that which we are not comfortable with. You are the standard.
2.) We put ourselves in the defendant’s chair. We hold high the Holy Scriptures and declare, “I am Guilty, but God’s word cannot err”! If I misunderstand what is here, it is because of my own brokenness. God and His word is the standard.

Am I guilty of not following all of God’s Word? Yes I am! I do not declare that it is because God’s Word is broken, though. It is because I am broken. Only Christ can save me, I certainly cannot.

Find the forum on "Why I lost my faith." Read the stories with an open mind and non-judgementally. Ask yourself, "How do I bring the gospel to this person now that God has brought him or her to my attention. How do I not continue to not keep ripping the wound open?" You can write these persons off or you can recognize that they are also loved creatures of God that have been hurt by other loved creatures of God.

Where is this forum?

 

[Willy]

I am not understanding how you are addressing the "truth" of Levitical laws that we choose to not follow (stick with the easy ones, pork, shellfish, mixed fabrics, mixed planting). If we disregarad these, how can we say the bible is inerrant?

I am not asking this to be nitpicky, I just find it incongruous. I am not saying that we disreagard the Bible, I am saying that the Bible is a living document. If we keep it locked in the past, it ceases to speak to us. We pick and choose but are not honest about it. Cannot the Spirit give us new understanding for a time that the writers of the Scriptures could not even imagine?

Good! Good! Good! you should think about going to seminary. The church needs people who can have this dynamic understanding of the Scriptures.

 

[Protoevangel]

Good! Good! Good! you should think about going to seminary. The church needs people who can have this dynamic understanding of the Scriptures.

Take a quick look at his public profile, Willy.

Occupation: Pastor

 

[ctobola]

I guess we could call it.... belated prophecy?

-c

Take a quick look at his public profile, Willy.

Occupation: Pastor

 

[ottaia]

I have been guilty of this kind of demeaning speech as well. If I have used this kind of language in dealing with you, please forgive me.

No problem.

The forum is in the http://www.christianforums.com/t1861800-why-i-stopped-believing.html