Challenge 1: Scriptural evidence for the Dispensations

[Hupomone10]

The following challenge has been made:

"1) Seven dispensations.
Nowhere found in apostolic teaching. The Jewish apostles were either ignorant of them,
or forgot to tell us about them."


What think you?

I'm asking for dispensationalists to offer Scriptural support for the seven standard dispensations. ( as well as theological support welcome.)

Please cite actual scripture, and not ONLY your take on the passage.

I cannot devote the time I used to to this, and am admittedly rusty on my dispensational theology, hence the request for support. Step up, gentle-persons!

God bless,
H.

 

[Hupomone10]

DEVELOPING DISPENSATIONALISM

Although Darby was the first to systematize dispensationalism, I believe that rudimentary features can be found prior to the nineteenth century, especially in the early church and the three hundred years prior to Darby. Opponents often debate a pre-Darby heritage, but I think the evidence does support our claim that there are historical and theological antecedents to the modern system.

The Early Church

Crude, but clear, schemes of ages and dispensations are found in ante-Nicene fathers such as Justin Martyr (110-165), Irenaeus (130-200), Tertullian (c. 160-220), Methodius (d. 311), and Victorinus of Petau (d. 304). Dispensationalist, Larry Crutchfield concluded that,

Regardless of the number of economies to which the Fathers held, the fact remains that they set forth what can only be considered a doctrine of ages and dispensations which foreshadows dispensationalism as it is held today. Their views were certainly less well defined and less sophisticated. But it is evident that the early Fathers viewed God' s dealings with His people in dispensational terms. . . . In every major area of importance in the early church one finds rudimentary features of dispensationalism that bear a striking resemblance to their contemporary offspring (" Ages and Dispensations, " 398).

Crutchfield charted these Fathers' schemes in the following chart which I have reproduced in an abbreviated form.

Justin Enoch/ Abraham Moses Christ Millennium

Martyr Noah

Adam Noah Moses Christ Millennium

Irenaeus to to to to

Noah Moses Christ Eternity

Tertullian Adam Noah Abraham Moses Christ Millennium

Crutchfield outlined the early Fathers' views on Israel and the church, which is another feature important to dispensationalism.

The Fathers (1) distinguished between the church and national Israel, (2) recognized distinctions among the differing peoples of God throughout biblical history, and (3) believed in the literal fulfillment of covenant promises in the earthly kingdom. . . . The contemporary dispensational position on Israel and the church is primarily a refinement and not a contradiction of the position of the ante-Nicene church(" Israel and the Church," 271.

There is no doubt that the position of the Fathers on the relationship between Israel and the church has problems. But certain elements in their thought place them close to, though not altogether within, the dispensational camp.

The Middle Ages

The Middle Ages were a time in which premillennialism, literal interpretation, dispensations, and an Israel- church distinction were largely absent from theological discussion or went underground.

The Reformation

The Reformation and post-Reformation periods did much to restore a more intensive study of the Bible to the church. For the first time ever, printing made literature accessible to most anyone. A greater effort was also put forth to systemize the Bible within the light of Protestant theology. About 250 years before Darby, Reformed scholars developed a school of theology that is known as " Covenant Theology." With it, a precedent was established for viewing theology from the perspective of an important concept like " covenant. " While others, like Jonathan Edwards (1703-58), wrote his " History of the Work of Redemption," which viewed God' s salvation of man progressively in history. Such developments were preparing the way for the birth of modern dispensationalism.

Dispensationalist, Charles Ryrie, has shown that for about 150 years prior to Darby, an increasing number of theologians were articulating dispensational schemes of Biblical history (Dispensationalism Today, 71-74). Pierre Poiret's scheme is seen in his six volume work, The Divine Economy (1687) as follows:

I. Infancy- to the Deluge

II. Childhood- to Moses

III. Adolescence- to the prophets

IV. Youth- to the coming of Christ

V. Manhood- " some time after that"

VI. Old Age- " the time of man' s decay"

(V & VI are the church age)

VII. Renovation of all things- the millennium (Disp. Today, p. 71)

Note that Poiret stressed the ruin or decay of the church, a major theme in Darby' s thinking.

Isaac Watts (1674-1748), the famous theologian and hymn writer, also wrote about dispensations in a forty-page essay entitled " The Harmony of all the Religions which God ever Prescribed to Men and all his Dispensations towards them." His definition of dispensations is very close to modern statements.

The public dispensations of God towards men, are those wise and holy constitutions of his will and government, revealed or some way manifested to them, in the several successive periods or ages of the world, where in are contained the duties which he expects from men, and the blessings which he promises, or encourages them to expect from him, here and hereafter; together with the sins which he forbids, and the punishments which he threatens to inflict on such sinners, or the dispensations of God may be described more briefly, as the appointed moral rules of God' s dealing with mankind, considered as reasonable creatures, and as accountable to him for their behavior, both in this world and in that which is to come. Each of these dispensations of God, may be represented as different religions, or at least, as different forms of religion, appointed for men in the several successive ages of the world.

Watts dispensational scheme is as follows:

I. The Dispensation of Innocency

II. Adam after the Fall

III. The Noahic Dispensation

IV. The Abrahamic Dispensation

V. The Mosaic Dispensation

VI. The Christian Dispensation (Disp. Today, p. 73).

Source

 

[Hupomone10]

DARBY' S THOUGHT

Literal Interpretation

No one questions whether Darby believed and practiced a literal method of interpretation. However, his hermeneutic is more sophisticated than many casual observers recognize. Darby believed in literal interpretation in the sense that the 1290 days of Daniel 12 were really days, in contrast to the host of historicists in his day who saw them as years. Darby thought that this kind of " spiritualization" of the text could only be used to support human ideas.

Elmore notes that " when it comes to evaluating any interpretation of Scripture or theological formulation," Darby " seems to admit two levels of evidence: (1) direct statements of Scripture, and (2) deductions from direct statements of Scripture" (131). Like most literalists, Darby did not believe in " wooden literalism" that disallows figures of speech, typology, and the theology of the Bible to guide exegesis. Rather, he followed " a literal, face-value approach to the text," while maintaining " a balance between detailed exegesis and biblical theology of books and writers, always having the progressive nature of revelation in mind" (198-99). " Darby believed that the language of the Old Testament allowed for additional theological content to be revealed later, but no redefinition of its theological content" (198) as do many covenant theologians.

Dispensations, Israel, and the Church

From his earliest days, Darby, like Graves, believed not only in the future conversion of the Jews, but also restoration to their homeland. By taking promises to both Israel and the church literally, Darby thought that God' s single plan of salvation is harmonized for God' s two peoples- Israel and the church. Israel, God' s earthly people, are destined to rule over the Nations with Christ before their resurrection. The Church, God' s heavenly people, will reign with Christ in the same kingdom, but in resurrection bodies.

Darby' s distinction between God' s plan for Israel and the Church formed the basis for his most controversial contribution to Evangelical Christianity- the pretribulation rapture of the Church. Even strong opponents to this doctrine admit that it is logical if God is going to literally fulfill His ancient promises to Israel. The Church must be removed before God resumes His work with Israel, enabling the two programs to fully participate in the millennial kingdom.

Like many before him, Darby saw God' s progressive revelation of His plan in terms of dispensations. Unlike C. I. Scofield, Darby did not begin his first dispensation until after Noah' s flood.

Darby' s view of the church was crucial to his development of dispensationalism, especially his view (shared by many in his day) of the present ruin of the church. Elmore observed:

By separating any earthly governmental concepts from the Anglican doctrine of the one, holy, catholic, apostolic church, Darby maintained a high view of the gathered church without aligning it with any race or national government fashioned after Old Testament Israel. By emphasizing Pauline uniqueness, he separated the Church unto its heavenly destiny. (312-13)

DARBY'S CONTRIBUTION

Darby is the father of dispensationalism. " Although he was not a systematic theologian, he was an expositor of ' dispensational truth.' He synthesized exegetical truths to show the full story-line of the Bible, God' s activity in human history" (Elmore, 312). Darby' s

employment of the hermeneutical principle of literal interpretation for all of Scripture, including prophecy, naturally led to the distinction between Israel and the Church. This resulted, of course, in the understanding that the hopes of Israel and those of the Church were of a different nature. (Crutchfield, 341)

Dispensationalism came to North America through Darby and other Brethren before the Civil War. After the war dispensational teachings captured the minds of a significant number of Christian leaders, and by 1875, its distinctives were disseminated throughout Canada and the United States. Dispensationalism spread through preaching, conferences, the founding of schools, and literature. By the turn of the century dispensationalism was well known and quickly became the most popular evangelical system of theology.

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[Hupomone10]

AMERICAN FOUNDING FATHERS

James Hall Brookes

The father of American dispensationalism was James Brookes. He studied at Miami University and Princeton Seminary, and was one of the first to host Darby at his church. In the 1870' s, Brookes wrote Maranatha, which was widely distributed and popularized a dispensational view of prophecy. Brookes also edited The Truth magazine and chaired the Niagara Bible Conference, both of which played critical roles in spreading dispensational beliefs among Christian leaders. As a result, he became the accepted leader of a large circle of pastors, evangelists and Christian workers. He will perhaps, best be remembered as the man who introduced C.I. Scofield to dispensationalism shortly after his conversion.

Adoniram Judson Gordon

Baptist Pastor A. J. Gordon (1836 -1895), for whom Gordon College and Gordon-Conwell Seminary is named, was another early dispensational leader. He was an important leader in the Prophecy Conferences and edited The Watchword. Through personal persuasion and his pen, he affected many on the East coast with dispensational views. Gordon lead D. L. Moody to accept dispensationalism.

PERIOD OF EXPANSION

Arno C. Gaebelein

Arno Gaebelein (1861-1945) migrated to the U.S. from Germany in his youth. Although he was initially a pastor, he is best known for his work in Jewish evangelism and as editor of Our Hope magazine. Timothy Weber noted of his abilities that Gaebelein " acquired such an expertise in the Talmud and other rabbinic literature and spoke such flawless Yiddish that he often had a difficult time convincing many of his audiences that he was not a Jew trying to ' pass' as a Gentile." (Living in the Shadow, 144)

Gaebelein did much to spread dispensationalism through his speaking, books, and magazine Our Hope.

William E. Blackstone

Like many early dispensationalists, William Blackstone (1841-1935) was also involved in a ministry of Jewish evangelists. Blackstone lived in the Chicago area and was the " Hal Lindsey " of his day when he wrote the best-selling book Jesus Is Coming (1878). Blackstone, even though a Christian, is also viewed as one of the fathers of the Zionist movement. He worked constantly for the return of Jews to Israel and lobbied politicians, convened conferences, and raised funds for the cause. " At a 1918 Zionist Conference in Philadelphia, Blackstone was acclaimed a ' Father of Zionism.' " (Weber, 140) In 1956, Israel dedicated a forest in his honor. Weber says of this unique Jewish- Christian relationship, dispensationalists " were able to stress the evangelization of the Jews while at the same time they supported Jewish nationalistic aspirations" (141).

Cyrus Ingerson Scofield

Kansas attorney C.I. Scofield (1843-1921), was converted to Christ at age 36. Later, during the 1880' s in St. Louis, James Brookes discipled Scofield teaching him dispensationalism. An ordained Congregationalist, Scofield, pastored both Congregational and Presbyterian churches. He also was active in missions and founded the Central American Mission. He is well-known as a systematizer and popularizer of dispensationalism through his widely-known and controversial Scofield Reference Bible (1909). His work has done more to spread dispensationalism throughout the English-speaking world than anything else. However, dispensationalism was already a growing movement before Scofield. His Bible simply made it more popular. Scofield was highly regarded in dispensational circles and his influence remains to this day.

Lewis Sperry Chafer

Presbyterian Bible teacher Lewis Chafer (1871-1952), Scofield's disciple, culminated his ministry with the publication of an eight-volume dispensational systematic theology. Chafer systemized dispensationalism and spread its influence through founding Dallas Seminary (The Evangelical Theological College) in 1924. Dallas has been the center of dispensationalism for seventy years and has many well-known faculty, among them: E.F. Harrison, A.T. Pierson, H.A. Ironside, Henry Thiessen, J. Vernon McGee, Merrill Unger, Charles Feinberg, Lewis Johnson, John Walvoord, Charles Ryrie, Dwight Pentecost, Howard Hendricks, and Norman Geisler. Well-known graduates include Hal Lindsey and Charles Swindoll. Chafer and Dallas Seminary have been the largest single influence for spreading dispensationalism in Christian higher education.

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[Hupomone10]

1) Innocence ... Between the Creation and the Fall of Man in the Garden. God interacted freely and personally with Adam and Eve during this period. Then they broke the only rule He had given them (Genesis 3:11-13) and were expelled from the Garden. Sin entered the world.

2) Conscience ... Between the Fall and the Flood, God allowed man's conscience to govern his behavior without Divine interference. Because of the sin nature passed down from mankind's first parents, the result was that "the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually" (Genesis 6:5). God pronounced judgment upon the world and destroyed all but 8 members of the human race in the Great Flood.

3) Human Government ... from the Flood to Abraham. After the flood God told Noah to go forth and replenish the Earth (Genesis 9:7). Noah's descendants disobeyed God's commandment, setting about instead to build a great city and tower from which to study the stars (Genesis 11:4). God confused man's language, causing them to stop building the tower, and scattered them through out the world (Genesis 11:8-9).

4) Promise ... from Abraham to Moses. God promised Abraham a homeland for his descendants (Genesis 17:8) and a son for him and Sarah (Genesis 17:15-16). But they grew tired of waiting and produced a son on their own, who they named Ishmael (Genesis 16:1-2.15). When God's promised son Isaac was born, Ishmael was sent away (Genesis 21:8-13) causing enmity between the Jews (descendants of Isaac) and Arabs (descendants of Ishmael) that continues to this day. After Mohammed, a descendant of Ishmael's, founded Islam this enmity took on religious significance and became even more intense.

5) Law ... from Moses to Jesus. God gave Moses the 10 Commandments and promised the Jews a life of peace and plenty in a Kingdom of their own if they obeyed (Exodus 19:5, Exodus 20:1-17). After repeated periods of disobedience which included rejecting their Messiah King, God withdrew His offer of the Kingdom and expelled them from their land (Matt. 21:43, Luke 19:41-44).

6) Grace ... from Pentecost to the Rapture, the Church Age. No longer requiring righteousness through works, God granted a righteousness by grace through faith in the completed work of Christ to all who accept, whether Jew or Gentile (Romans 3:21-24). Most will not accept and will be punished through eternity.

Note: It's important to realize that Grace didn't replace Law, it just interrupted it. Law has another 7 years to run, called Daniel's 70th Week (Daniel 9:24-27), which fills the time between the Rapture and the 2nd Coming. During this time all the nations to which Israel has been scattered will be completely destroyed and Israel will be disciplined in preparation for receiving the Kingdom (Jeremiah 30:4-11).

7)The Kingdom ... the 1000 Year Reign of Christ that begins with the 2nd Coming. This time Israel will accept the Kingdom offer (Zechariah 12:10, Zechariah 14:8-9). Satan will be bound(Rev. 20:2), all unbelievers will be expelled from the planet (Matt. 25:41-46), and God will once again dwell in the midst of His people (Ezek 43:6-7). You'd think man could finally live in a manner pleasing to God. But he can't. With the exception of Israel, the world will rebel against God and His people. God will send fire to consume them all (Rev. 20:7-10).

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[Hupomone10]

What Is God's Purpose In This?

I think the overarching purpose of these seven dispensations is to demonstrate that there are no conditions under which natural man can behave in a manner acceptable to God. Only the Church is able to do so and then only after being perfected in the rapture. This why Paul wrote that after the end of the Millennium when it comes time for Jesus to present the kingdom to the Father, He will first destroy all dominion, authority and power (1 Cor. 15:24). This means as we enter eternity neither mankind nor the angels will ever have the desire or ability to disobey God again. That's why there isn't an eighth dispensation called Eternity.

Two of the major changes that dispensationalism as we know it today brought upon the post reformation world were the return to a literal interpretation of Scripture, especially where it deals with prophecy, and the realization that there's a distinct difference between Israel and the Church in the End Times. It's the best tool I know of for determining the context of a passage and understanding who its intended recipients are. (Reform theology does not adhere to a literal interpretation of Scripture, treats end times prophecy as allegorical, and blurs the distinction between Israel and the Church to the point where some claim the Church has replaced Israel in God's plan making Israel an unnecessary part of our times.)

Most dispensationalists believe in a pre-tribulation rapture followed by Daniel's 70th week with its accompanying judgments and a literal Kingdom of God that will begin with the 2nd Coming and last for 1,000 years. During this time Israel will be God's Kingdom on Earth while the Church will be God's Kingdom in Heaven.

So this is what dispensationalists believe. It's what I believe and is the theological foundation for all the articles and answers to be found on this site. This is why I said the Great Flood was the second in a series of seven times where mankind would violate the terms of an agreement with God and bring judgment upon themselves.

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[Biblewriter]

I am working on an answer to the challenges. But it will take time. My work is currently being hindered by hospital visits. They have concluded that the left side of my heart is weak, and I am scheduled for a cardiac cath Dec 4th at 1:30 PM CST. I had a similar procedure fifteen years ago, and went into v-fib, the worst kind of a heart attack. But they started cardiac massage immediately. It took fifteen minutes to get it re-started. So I am a little apprehensive. If you do not hear from me again, you can assume I am with the Lord.

I will appreciate your prayers.

 

[Hupomone10]

I am working on an answer to the challenges. But it will take time. My work is currently being hindered by hospital visits. They have concluded that the left side of my heart is weak, and I am scheduled for a cardiac cath Dec 4th at 1:30 PM CST. I had a similar procedure fifteen years ago, and went into v-fib, the worst kind of a heart attack. But they started cardiac massage immediately. It took fifteen minutes to get it re-started. So I am a little apprehensive. If you do not hear from me again, you can assume I am with the Lord.

I will appreciate your prayers.

I pray for our sakes that this doesn't happen, however better and more joyous it would be for you.

Thank you for your work on this, and my prayers are with you. I have a prayer walk every day, and will pray for you then.

Blessings,
H.

 

[Biblewriter]

I pray for our sakes that this doesn't happen, however better and more joyous it would be for you.

Thank you for your work on this, and my prayers are with you. I have a prayer walk every day, and will pray for you then.

Blessings,
H.

I am finally home, after having to stay in the hospital an extra 24 hours due to internal bleeding, which has now been staunched. But I have to be careful for a while, so will not be able to post much, probably not until I am in Brazil. I am scheduled to preach in Rio in about a month or six weeks, I forget exactly when.

 

[James4_14]

***Heb 1:1-2
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

The book of Hebrews is to the Hebrews. Jesus' earthly ministry was to them:

***Matt 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
***Rom 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

The circumcision is Israel. The dispensation of the Grace of God was not sent to the Gentiles until Paul was in prison in Rome in 63 AD. You may see the full details of our calling in Ephesians and Colossians.
Dispensations are definitely Biblical.

***2 Tim 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
***Prov 3:5-6
5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths

He directs our paths with Scriptures.

 

[DeaconDean]

Four times in the New Testament, Paul uses the word "dispensation".

1. 1 Corinthians 9:17
   For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.
   1 Corinthians 9:16-18 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 9 (Whole Chapter)
2. Ephesians 1:10
   That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
   Ephesians 1:9-11 (in Context) Ephesians 1 (Whole Chapter)
3. Ephesians 3:2
   If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
   Ephesians 3:1-3 (in Context) Ephesians 3 (Whole Chapter)
4. Colossians 1:25
   Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
   Colossians 1:24-26 (in Context) Colossians 1 (Whole Chapter)

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[JackSparrow]

I am finally home, after having to stay in the hospital an extra 24 hours due to internal bleeding, which has now been staunched. But I have to be careful for a while, so will not be able to post much, probably not until I am in Brazil. I am scheduled to preach in Rio in about a month or six weeks, I forget exactly when.

Hi

I do not know you. I thought to post and say good to see you back here. My wife has been through heart surgery recently so I can empathize with you situation.

Best wishes.

 

[dan p]

The following challenge has been made:

"1) Seven dispensations.
Nowhere found in apostolic teaching. The Jewish apostles were either ignorant of them,
or forgot to tell us about them."


What think you?

I'm asking for dispensationalists to offer Scriptural support for the seven standard dispensations. ( as well as theological support welcome.)

Please cite actual scripture, and not ONLY your take on the passage.

I cannot devote the time I used to to this, and am admittedly rusty on my dispensational theology, hence the request for support. Step up, gentle-persons!

God bless,
H.

Hi , and , since the Greek word OIKONOMIA /DISPENSATION means House Rule , and Paul defines what the House Rules are , THE REVELATION OF THE MYSTERY , 1 COR 9:17 ; Eph 3:2 and Col 1:25 .

And this is the Dispensational that we are in , at this present time .


Next there is another Dispensation that is different than what is written above , called the " Dispensation of the FULNESS of Time " in Eph 1:10 !!

Then many call it a Dispensation , when Angels were created and Ezek 28:15 and Isa 14:9-17 .

Another one is the Law of Moses and the 613 Laws that ruled Israel , though is is not per se called a Dispensation !!

dan p

 

[Biblewriter]

I am now in Rio de Janerio, recovered and with a little time to begin to answer your requests.

Dispensationalism is simply the doctrine that God interacts with mankind in different ways at different times. Detractors of the doctrine see it as God “trying” different things. But that is not the doctrine at all. Rather than “trying” different things, dispensationalism realizes that God is running a series of tests to demonstrate that mankind will fail under any conceivable circumstance.

God’s first test of mankind was to leave him innocent, without any knowledge of good or evil. For “they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.” (Genesis 2:25) In this test, God gave mankind only one law. Do not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. God warned them of the result of breaking this one law, that they would surely die. But they broke that one law, because they chose to believe Satan’s lie that God did not have their own best interests in mind. This brought about the first change in God’s dealings. “And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked.” (Genesis 3:7) Here is a distinct change, a situation that did not exist before. They were naked before, but so what? That’s just what we look like. But now they knew that they were naked. This dispensation, though short, ended with mankind being sent out of the garden of Eden, where they had everything they could wish for provided for them. Now they had to work for a living.

After expelling mankind from the garden God left them more or less up to their own devices, with no guide (that He has told us about) except their consciences. “And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.” (Genesis 6:5) “The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.” (Genesis 6:11) So God sent the great flood, destroying all mankind except Noah and his family. So even as the first dispensation had ended with a flaming sword that turned every way, keeping mankind out of the garden, this one ended with all mankind except one family being put to death.

After the flood, God made a new law, something that had not existed before. This, again, is a distinct change. God now said, “surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man. Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.” (Genesis 9:5-6) This was again a change, something that had not existed before. And mankind went out, and began to establish kingdoms. And they began to rebel against God, building a tower to reach his heaven. (Of course, God knew, as we do today, that this would not work. But they did not know this.) Up to this time “the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.” (Genesis 11:1) But “the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.” (Genesis 11:9) So this dispensation, in which God first held man responsible to administer justice, ended with their single language confounded, so they were scattered abroad upon the face of the earth.

After this, God “said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee: And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.” (Genesis 12:1-3) This, again, was something new. Something that God had never done before. He took a single man and gave him a great promise. Later on, He expanded that promise, saying, “Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward: For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever. And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.” (Genesis 13:14-16) Later, He clarified this, “saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:” (Genesis 15:18-21) “And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;” (Genesis 15:13) Abraham’s descendants forgot the promise, and descended into the hopelessness of slavery, so hopeless that they said to Moses, “The LORD look upon you, and judge; because ye have made our savour to be abhorred in the eyes of Pharaoh, and in the eyes of his servants, to put a sword in their hand to slay us.” (Exodus 5:21) So this dispensation ended with the promise forgotten, and even the hope of deliverance scorned.

But God indeed brought them out, and gave them a long and detailed law, with promises of blessing for those who kept it and curses for those who did not. This, again, was something God had never done before. It was new and different. But none of them kept this law. And they finally nailed the only one who ever kept it to a cross. So this dispensation ended with the only truly righteous man who ever lived hanging on a cross.

When this dispensation ended, God again did something he had never done before. He offered salvation as a free gift to whoever would believe, regardless of what nation they were from. This, again, like all the others, involves a basic change in the way God is dealing with mankind. But God has already told us how this will end. He has said that “evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived,” (2 Timothy 3:13) and that eventually, the man of sin will sit “as God, in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.” (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4)

But after this dispensation is over, God has told us of another one yet to come. In Isaiah 66, He has told us that after he comes in power and glory, he will gather all Israel back to her land. The kingdom that will be established at that time is described in great detail in numerous scriptures. This is, once again, something that God has never before done.

So we have seen that God has indeed told us of a series of different times in which he did or will do things in entirely different ways. And this is the essence of dispensationalism.

 

[damascusroad]

SPLENDID thread!

 

[Bro in Christ]

look at eating arrangements set by God

Gen 2:16
gen 9:1-5
Lev 11:1-47

Acts 10:13-15
1 tim 4:3-5
romans 14:20-23
1 cor 8:12

 

[ananda]

Messiah does not support the idea of "dispensations" or Laws given specifically to specific ethnicities of peoples (e.g. Jews).

Here, He says that His Words and Commands will endure forever:

Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. Mt 24:35
​

... and here, Messiah shows that everything He commanded the Jews and Israelites apply to believing Gentiles as well:

And Jesus came to them and spake unto them, saying, All authority hath been given unto me in heaven and on earth. Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the ethne-nations-Gentiles, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. - Mt 28:18-20 ​

 

[Biblewriter]

Messiah does not support the idea of "dispensations" or Laws given specifically to specific ethnicities of peoples (e.g. Jews).

Here, He says that His Words and Commands will endure forever:

Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. Mt 24:35
​

... and here, Messiah shows that everything He commanded the Jews and Israelites apply to believing Gentiles as well:

And Jesus came to them and spake unto them, saying, All authority hath been given unto me in heaven and on earth. Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the ethne-nations-Gentiles, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. - Mt 28:18-20 ​

Are you implying that Dispensationalists view Dispensations as laws given specifically to certain ethnicities of people?

We indeed know from Acts 15 and other scriptures that the law of Moses was only given to Israel. But the present word of grace goes out to all nations equally.

 

[ananda]

Are you implying that Dispensationalists view Dispensations as laws given specifically to certain ethnicities of people? We indeed know from Acts 15 and other scriptures that the law of Moses was only given to Israel. But the present word of grace goes out to all nations equally.

Yes, the Way of Righteousness (aka Torah/Law) of YHWH was given only to Israel through Moses.

The Way of Righteousness & its Covenant was made solely for believing Israel ("those in Covenant"). Believing (biological-)Gentiles were called "sojourners" with Israel, and were accepted by YHWH into the same Covenant, and bore exactly the same responsibilities and rewards as any native, believing, biological-Israelite (Num 15:15, also see Num 15:3,14; 9:14; 15:9; Lev 24:22; Isa 11:10, Isa 49:6, Isa 56, Zec 2:11, Zec 8:22,23, Eze 37:22, Psa 22, 86:9, 98:3, etc.).

In the same way, Yehoshua Messiah also came only for Israel (Mt 15:24). After Messiah completed His witness and offer to Israel, He then sent His apostles to all the (Gentile) nations (Mt 28:19) to invite those who desire to sojourn as believers with believing Israel, for their salvation. In essence, Gentiles wishing to partake of YHWH Elohim's eternal salvation must join themselves to Israel and Messiah, and those who have done so are in effect no longer "Gentiles," but sojourners with Israel: "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd." John 10:16, also Lk 14:21.

So, yes, the Way of Righteousness and its associated blessings (e.g. salvation) is indeed only for faithful Israel. Gentiles must join with faithful Israel to obtain those blessings. Gentiles must struggle with YHWH for His blessing like Jacob, who then became Israel.

 

[Hupomone10]

I am now in Rio de Janerio, recovered and with a little time to begin to answer your requests.

Dispensationalism is simply the doctrine that God interacts with mankind in different ways at different times. Detractors of the doctrine see it as God “trying” different things. But that is not the doctrine at all. Rather than “trying” different things, dispensationalism realizes that God is running a series of tests to demonstrate that mankind will fail under any conceivable circumstance.

God’s first test of mankind was to leave him innocent, without any knowledge of good or evil. For “they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.” (Genesis 2:25) In this test, God gave mankind only one law. Do not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. God warned them of the result of breaking this one law, that they would surely die. But they broke that one law, because they chose to believe Satan’s lie that God did not have their own best interests in mind. This brought about the first change in God’s dealings. “And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked.” (Genesis 3:7) Here is a distinct change, a situation that did not exist before. They were naked before, but so what? That’s just what we look like. But now they knew that they were naked. This dispensation, though short, ended with mankind being sent out of the garden of Eden, where they had everything they could wish for provided for them. Now they had to work for a living.

After expelling mankind from the garden God left them more or less up to their own devices, with no guide (that He has told us about) except their consciences. “And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.” (Genesis 6:5) “The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.” (Genesis 6:11) So God sent the great flood, destroying all mankind except Noah and his family. So even as the first dispensation had ended with a flaming sword that turned every way, keeping mankind out of the garden, this one ended with all mankind except one family being put to death.

After the flood, God made a new law, something that had not existed before. This, again, is a distinct change. God now said, “surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man. Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.” (Genesis 9:5-6) This was again a change, something that had not existed before. And mankind went out, and began to establish kingdoms. And they began to rebel against God, building a tower to reach his heaven. (Of course, God knew, as we do today, that this would not work. But they did not know this.) Up to this time “the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.” (Genesis 11:1) But “the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.” (Genesis 11:9) So this dispensation, in which God first held man responsible to administer justice, ended with their single language confounded, so they were scattered abroad upon the face of the earth.

After this, God “said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee: And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.” (Genesis 12:1-3) This, again, was something new. Something that God had never done before. He took a single man and gave him a great promise. Later on, He expanded that promise, saying, “Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward: For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever. And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.” (Genesis 13:14-16) Later, He clarified this, “saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:” (Genesis 15:18-21) “And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;” (Genesis 15:13) Abraham’s descendants forgot the promise, and descended into the hopelessness of slavery, so hopeless that they said to Moses, “The LORD look upon you, and judge; because ye have made our savour to be abhorred in the eyes of Pharaoh, and in the eyes of his servants, to put a sword in their hand to slay us.” (Exodus 5:21) So this dispensation ended with the promise forgotten, and even the hope of deliverance scorned.

But God indeed brought them out, and gave them a long and detailed law, with promises of blessing for those who kept it and curses for those who did not. This, again, was something God had never done before. It was new and different. But none of them kept this law. And they finally nailed the only one who ever kept it to a cross. So this dispensation ended with the only truly righteous man who ever lived hanging on a cross.

When this dispensation ended, God again did something he had never done before. He offered salvation as a free gift to whoever would believe, regardless of what nation they were from. This, again, like all the others, involves a basic change in the way God is dealing with mankind. But God has already told us how this will end. He has said that “evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived,” (2 Timothy 3:13) and that eventually, the man of sin will sit “as God, in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.” (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4)

But after this dispensation is over, God has told us of another one yet to come. In Isaiah 66, He has told us that after he comes in power and glory, he will gather all Israel back to her land. The kingdom that will be established at that time is described in great detail in numerous scriptures. This is, once again, something that God has never before done.

So we have seen that God has indeed told us of a series of different times in which he did or will do things in entirely different ways. And this is the essence of dispensationalism.

Thank you brother.

I've already clipped this out and read it with my wife. Please elaborate more. I feel that maybe this was part 1...

Blessings,
H.