Baptist and female submission

[Frankie]

What are the varying views for us Baptist when it comes to women submitting to their husband and to church leadership?

What exactly does "submission" mean to you as a woman and what does it mean to the men?

I would like to hear from both sides please.

God Bless,
Frankie

 

[theseed]

I as far as marriage goes, I believe the bible calls for mutual submission. The husband must love the wife as Christ loved the church. This is agape love. The husband must be willing to die for his wife.

Just as Christ is Lord, and we chose to make him Lord, he does not force us to be Lord. So too, should the wife submit to her husband, out of love and not compulsion or force.

As for church leadership, we all must submit from time to time, or find a new church. Should women be pastors and deacons? I will leave that debate for somone else.

 

[FaithfulServant]

I agree with The Seed about mutual submission. I believe "submission" is necessary in any business, government, or family. Submission does not mean inferiority. It is mutual commitment and cooperation. I believe the wife should submit to her husband for the sake of the family and the marriage. It is submission between equal - by choice, not force. We serve God in these relationships by submitting to others in our church, to our spouses, and to our government leaders.

 

[Cright]

I think as the Seed mentioned, submission works both ways, and I don't think a single marriage could last long with out it. It works very much the same as compromise.

To submit as we are told to in the bible should be done out of love and respect for our husbands. It should not be out of fear of them. Submission out of fear, IMO, is not necessary/biblical.

God Bless

 

[Frankie]

I agree that submission works both ways. I have known some couples who are in marriages where the Husband tries to rule with unrightous dominion over His wife and family and I do not think that is at all pleasing to God.

God Bless,
Frankie

 

[Pilgrim 33]

From the physical perspective: As with politics, a good leader serves. This was exemplified in the work and teachings of Jesus. The more a leader (husband) serves the more the subjects (wives) willingly submit.

From the Spiritual perspective: The husband and wife are equal in the eyes of God. Stern cautions in Scripture make it very plain that if the husband does not listen to the wife God will not listen to the husband. IOW, if the husband shuts out the wife God will shut the husband out and not hear his prayers.

 

[jenptcfan]

I agree that submission works both ways. I have known some couples who are in marriages where the Husband tries to rule with unrightous dominion over His wife and family and I do not think that is at all pleasing to God.

God Bless,
Frankie

If the husband is trying to rule his wife, it's not submission, it's oppression. By definition, submission must be given freely from the one who is submitting.

I believe in submission (what it's actually intended to be). I believe that women are supposed to submit to their husbands' leadership, and that husbands are supposed to love their wives as Christ loved the church (also a form of submission, but with a little different spin).

 

[Vessel Of Mercy]

I completely agree with jenptcfan. I ascribe to the Complementarian position, that is, men and women are created equally before God, but different. The differences between man and woman are complementary. I think that "mutual submission" is an unbiblical concept what with all the instruction by Paul that women are to be submissive to their husbands. However, husbands are not in a one-sided relationship, they are one flesh with their wives. Women are to be held in the highest respect as capable of that which is characteristic of their creation in the image of God. Husbands are to love their wives as Christ loves the Church, which is both strong leadership and strong servantship, to present their wives holy and blameless before God. The husband and wife are to be of one mind in marriage at all times possible, and should strive to be. However, when agreement cannot be reached on an important decision, it is up to the husband, the spiritual leader, to make the final decision in line with God's Word. It is his responsibility to make the right decision that is best for the situation, a responsibility of which he should be fully capable. In deciding what is ultimately best, the wife should submit to the final authority of the husband, recognizing his leadership. He also must take the responsibility of the consequences of his leadership before God and men. The husband has all the responsibility of being a godly husband according to God's commands in Scripture.

This is far from an adequate summary of the Complementarian position, so I encourage you all to read material from this site:

http://www.cbmw.org/
And its news site:
http://www.gender-news.com/

Blessings,
Ben

 

[Frankie]

I completely agree with jenptcfan. I ascribe to the Complementarian position, that is, men and women are created equally before God, but different. The differences between man and woman are complementary. I think that "mutual submission" is an unbiblical concept what with all the instruction by Paul that women are to be submissive to their husbands. However, husbands are not in a one-sided relationship, they are one flesh with their wives. Women are to be held in the highest respect as capable of that which is characteristic of their creation in the image of God. Husbands are to love their wives as Christ loves the Church, which is both strong leadership and strong servantship, to present their wives holy and blameless before God. The husband and wife are to be of one mind in marriage at all times possible, and should strive to be. However, when agreement cannot be reached on an important decision, it is up to the husband, the spiritual leader, to make the final decision in line with God's Word. It is his responsibility to make the right decision that is best for the situation, a responsibility of which he should be fully capable. In deciding what is ultimately best, the wife should submit to the final authority of the husband, recognizing his leadership. He also must take the responsibility of the consequences of his leadership before God and men. The husband has all the responsibility of being a godly husband according to God's commands in Scripture.

This is far from an adequate summary of the Complementarian position, so I encourage you all to read material from this site:

http://www.cbmw.org/
And its news site:
http://www.gender-news.com/

Blessings,
Ben

I do not believe that a husband should be the final authority on things. I think that big decisions should be made together. I especially believe it should be this way in a household where the wife is a believer and the husband is not. Perhaps the reason I feel so strongly on this is because I grew up in a church and household where the men "ruled the roost" and made all the final and major (and even most of the time, minor) decisions. I saw how the control went to their heads and how very sad and worthless it made the women around them feel. Of course the women would never have voiced their feelings to the men because it was "not their place" and the husbands would have just told them to "mind their place and be still". I am very thankful to God that He blessed me with a husband that does not try to control me and makes decisions with me, not for me. It has been a true blessing in my life.

God Bless,
Frankie

 

[jenptcfan]

I do not believe that a husband should be the final authority on things. I think that big decisions should be made together. I especially believe it should be this way in a household where the wife is a believer and the husband is not. Perhaps the reason I feel so strongly on this is because I grew up in a church and household where the men "ruled the roost" and made all the final and major (and even most of the time, minor) decisions. I saw how the control went to their heads and how very sad and worthless it made the women around them feel. Of course the women would never have voiced their feelings to the men because it was "not their place" and the husbands would have just told them to "mind their place and be still". I am very thankful to God that He blessed me with a husband that does not try to control me and makes decisions with me, not for me. It has been a true blessing in my life.

God Bless,
Frankie

I don't think that men should just go around making major decisions without asking for their wife's input. I think that in a good marriage where the man respects the wife as he has been commanded, he will ask for her input and take her opinions to heart and they will work through it together. But I do think the responsibility for final decisions rests on the man.

 

[theseed]

I don't think that men should just go around making major decisions without asking for their wife's input. I think that in a good marriage where the man respects the wife as he has been commanded, he will ask for her input and take her opinions to heart and they will work through it together. But I do think the responsibility for final decisions rests on the man.

Proverbs 27:17
As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.


Proverbs 15:22
Plans fail for lack of counsel, but with many advisers they succeed.

Proverbs 27:9
Perfume and incense bring joy to the heart, and the pleasantness of one's friend springs from his earnest counsel.


Proverbs 12:15
The way of a fool seems right to him, but a wise man listens to advice.


Proverbs 13:10
Pride only breeds quarrels, but wisdom is found in those who take advice.

Proverbs 19:20
Listen to advice and accept instruction, and in the end you will be wise



Proverbs 20:18
Make plans by seeking advice; if you wage war, obtain guidance.

 

[jenptcfan]

Proverbs 27:17
As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.


Proverbs 15:22
Plans fail for lack of counsel, but with many advisers they succeed.

Proverbs 27:9
Perfume and incense bring joy to the heart, and the pleasantness of one's friend springs from his earnest counsel.


Proverbs 12:15
The way of a fool seems right to him, but a wise man listens to advice.


Proverbs 13:10
Pride only breeds quarrels, but wisdom is found in those who take advice.

Proverbs 19:20
Listen to advice and accept instruction, and in the end you will be wise



Proverbs 20:18
Make plans by seeking advice; if you wage war, obtain guidance.

Great quotes, theseed. Not just for this topic, but good to remind those of us who are independent and don't like to accept help that it's wise to seek others' advice.

 

[Frankie]

Great quotes, theseed. Not just for this topic, but good to remind those of us who are independent and don't like to accept help that it's wise to seek others' advice.

I agree, as long as it is advice from a trustworthy person.

God Bless,
Frankie