Atheistic Secular Humanism is every bit a Religion, as Christianity .

[TheyCallMeDavid]

Im looking to debate this issue . I take the view that Atheism in the form of Secular Humanism is a practiced Religion today and Id like to present objective truth for that statement. Id also like to present factual information that it is one of the most destructive current-day Religions that exists for America in particular .

This debate will be centered on Atheistic Secular Humanism only (and Christianity will not be considered for pros and cons).

Ill go first in the debate and would like 3 exchanges each, with a maximum of 5,000 words per exchange if needed .

PM me if interested.


David

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Im looking to debate this issue . I take the view that Atheism in the form of Secular Humanism is a practiced Religion today and Id like to present objective truth for that statement. Id also like to present factual information that it is one of the most destructive current-day Religions that exists for America in particular .

This debate will be centered on Atheistic Secular Humanism only (and Christianity will not be considered for pros and cons).

Ill go first in the debate and would like 3 exchanges each, with a maximum of 5,000 words per exchange if needed .

PM me if interested.



David

Great topic David!

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

Great topic David!

Thanks. It promises to be very informative .

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Would you like me to promote it?

 

[essentialsaltes]

What definition of 'religion' do you propose?

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

Would you like me to promote it?

Sure would ! thanks.

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

What definition of 'religion' do you propose?

This definition looks palatable for both sides : Religion | Define Religion at Dictionary.com

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

What definition of 'religion' do you propose?

This definition looks palatable for both sides : Religion | Define Religion at Dictionary.com

I'll refrain from promoting this until you guys have had a chance to discuss it.

 

[essentialsaltes]

This definition looks palatable for both sides : Religion | Define Religion at Dictionary.com

Do you mean only definition 1?

I think definitions 1, 2, and 6 are potentially relevant to the question. I would grant that Secular Humanism (at least organized Secular Humanism) can meet definitions 2 and 6.

I guess that brings up another question. What is your definition of "Atheistic Secular Humanism"?

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

Do you mean only definition 1?

I think definitions 1, 2, and 6 are potentially relevant to the question. I would grant that Secular Humanism (at least organized Secular Humanism) can meet definitions 2 and 6.

I guess that brings up another question. What is your definition of "Atheistic Secular Humanism"?

Im pretty open to definitions of Secular Humanism, but, this One I find interesting : Secular humanism - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

In the Debate, ill allow my Atheist/Humanist opponent to define the term and the Debate can go from there . If you are wanting to debate Me , please say so, otherwise I don't really care to be having an extensive dialogue . Thanks.

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

I'll refrain from promoting this until you guys have had a chance to discuss it.

He is not interested in debating Me. Please go ahead and promote it now. Thanks.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

As an atheist humanist, I would say I agree that humanism can be called a religion but atheism cannot. Atheism is specific to one particular question of whether one believes gods exist or not.

I would say humanism is a religion because it has a set of moral guidelines that are to be followed if one wants to consider himself a humanist. But I don't speak for all humanists everywhere, that is just how I interpret it.

 

[Ana the Ist]

As an atheist humanist, I would say I agree that humanism can be called a religion but atheism cannot. Atheism is specific to one particular question of whether one believes gods exist or not.

I would say humanism is a religion because it has a set of moral guidelines that are to be followed if one wants to consider himself a humanist. But I don't speak for all humanists everywhere, that is just how I interpret it.

Good point.

I think that's why no one has stepped into the debate, just accepting is tantamount to an admission that "atheism" has anything to do with "secular humanism" at all. Couldn't one just as easily be a christian secular humanist? Whether you're atheist or christian...I don't see how those labels add or detract from secular humanism in any way.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Golden boy, Ana; either of you interested in taking up the challenge. Be mindful that this is a proposal thread, not a discussion thread.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Golden boy, Ana; either of you interested in taking up the challenge. Be mindful that this is a proposal thread, not a discussion thread.

I think it would be interesting and I'd like to see it debated, but I'm not really the one to debate since I'm neither secularist nor humanist. I merely thought David would have a better chance at finding a debate partner if he dropped the "atheist" aspect and focused simply on the secular humanism.

My sincerest apologies if my advice isn't wanted. I won't post further.

 

[Freodin]

Im looking to debate this issue . I take the view that Atheism in the form of Secular Humanism is a practiced Religion today and Id like to present objective truth for that statement. Id also like to present factual information that it is one of the most destructive current-day Religions that exists for America in particular .

This debate will be centered on Atheistic Secular Humanism only (and Christianity will not be considered for pros and cons).

Ill go first in the debate and would like 3 exchanges each, with a maximum of 5,000 words per exchange if needed .

PM me if interested.


David

I would debate you on this, but not in the form it is presented here.

1. If you want to debate that atheism is a religion... fine, do so. (Though that is as meaningless as to claim that theism is a religion.) If you want to debate on secular humanism as a religion... fine by me also.
But a phrase like ""Atheism in the form of Secular Humanism" is just a meaningless and misleading statement.
2. If you want to debate that " Atheistic Secular Humanism is every bit a Religion, as Christianity ." you will have to allow the discussion of Christianity as a religion... every bit as. You cannot extempt your own standard of comparison from the debate.
3. In the same way, if you want to argue that "it is one of the most destructive current-day Religions that exists for America in particular.", you will have to allow to discussion of your standard of comparison... in your case, Christianity.

Adjust these points, and I will debate you.

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

I would debate you on this, but not in the form it is presented here.

1. If you want to debate that atheism is a religion... fine, do so. (Though that is as meaningless as to claim that theism is a religion.) If you want to debate on secular humanism as a religion... fine by me also.
But a phrase like ""Atheism in the form of Secular Humanism" is just a meaningless and misleading statement.
2. If you want to debate that " Atheistic Secular Humanism is every bit a Religion, as Christianity ." you will have to allow the discussion of Christianity as a religion... every bit as. You cannot extempt your own standard of comparison from the debate.
3. In the same way, if you want to argue that "it is one of the most destructive current-day Religions that exists for America in particular.", you will have to allow to discussion of your standard of comparison... in your case, Christianity.

Adjust these points, and I will debate you.

Its not a meaningless statement to say 'Atheism in the form of Secular Humanism' since Atheism can and does take on several varieties ; Im making it specific since my experience shows that every professed Atheist ive ever met agrees to supporting Secular Humanism.

We already know that Christianity is considered a World Religion, so theres no point in wasting time trying to show, prove that . I readily admit that. The discussion should be on : Does atheistic Secular Humanism qualify as a religion and even having some of the same tenets at Christianity (and those tenets can be specified for the sake of the discussion).

As to whether atheistic Secular Humanism is a dangerous religious worldview having sociological implications.... the standard ISNT Christianity but rather things such as common morality, ethics, civility, healthy lifestyles, purpose and meaning to life, etc....

Ive met you half way, so, if you want to debate this, lets begin upon your acceptance.

 

[Freodin]

Its not a meaningless statement to say 'Atheism in the form of Secular Humanism' since Atheism can and does take on several varieties ; Im making it specific since my experience shows that every professed Atheist ive ever met agrees to supporting Secular Humanism.

Whatever... I will point out where this stance is wrong when we need to deal with it.

We already know that Christianity is considered a World Religion, so theres no point in wasting time trying to show, prove that . I readily admit that. The discussion should be on : Does atheistic Secular Humanism qualify as a religion and even having some of the same tenets at Christianity (and those tenets can be specified for the sake of the discussion).

No. The discussion should be on "does atheistic secular humanism qualify as a religion in (about) the same way as Christianity is a religion." The dictionary definitions you offered to base this debate on are very wide, and can include uses of this term that are only derivates of the original meaning.
If you are not willing to defend the concept of Christianity as a religion - beyond "we already know" - as well as asserting that secular humanism is a religion... then there is nothing to debate.

As to whether atheistic Secular Humanism is a dangerous religious worldview having sociological implications.... the standard ISNT Christianity but rather things such as common morality, ethics, civility, healthy lifestyles, purpose and meaning to life, etc....

And again, if you want to assert that secular humanism is "one of the most destructive [...] religions", you have to allow the comparison to other religions including Christianity.

I will gladly allow that comparison to be based on "common morality, ethics civility" and all the rest, if we can find such a common ground without referring to your religion... but you must not exclude your own religion from such a debate.

Ive met you half way, so, if you want to debate this, lets begin upon your acceptance.

I stated my points. You can agree to them or not.

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

Whatever... I will point out where this stance is wrong when we need to deal with it.


No. The discussion should be on "does atheistic secular humanism qualify as a religion in (about) the same way as Christianity is a religion." The dictionary definitions you offered to base this debate on are very wide, and can include uses of this term that are only derivates of the original meaning.
If you are not willing to defend the concept of Christianity as a religion - beyond "we already know" - as well as asserting that secular humanism is a religion... then there is nothing to debate.


And again, if you want to assert that secular humanism is "one of the most destructive [...] religions", you have to allow the comparison to other religions including Christianity.

I will gladly allow that comparison to be based on "common morality, ethics civility" and all the rest, if we can find such a common ground without referring to your religion... but you must not exclude your own religion from such a debate.


I stated my points. You can agree to them or not.

Alright, I have no problem with what you stated here...I just hope we wont get off on Rabbit-trails since its Secular Humanism that I want to discuss at length .

I do need to know ,upfront , if you consider Secular Humanism a Religion in accordance to any of the definitions submitted above ? If so, which specific definition(s) ?

Are you ok with the same terms as in our past Debates : 3 rounds each with up to 5,000 words per post (if needed) , and a 1 week max. time period to respond ?

 

[Freodin]

I do need to know ,upfront , if you consider Secular Humanism a Religion in accordance to any of the definitions submitted above ? If so, which specific definition(s) ?

Any of the definitions?

Well... yes. But in length that would be an explanation to be dealt with in the debate.

Are you ok with the same terms as in our past Debates : 3 rounds each with up to 5,000 words per post (if needed) , and a 1 week max. time period to respond ?

Suits me fine... if your are willing, order an arena.