Are you baptized in the Holy Spirit?

[ByTheSpirit]

Ok so something is really bugging me and this may come against as a vent, but it's not really. I feel that those of us who are courageous enough to do the Lord's work have a duty to call those who don't into action. Not that I claim to be some super-human evangelist who can yell the most compelling gospel message to the masses, but how sad is it when even if a Christian only shares their faith just once in their entire life they have done more evangelism than more than 95% of all other Christians. Where is the evidence of conversion, really? I love how in Acts Peter and John tell the Sanhedrin that they couldn't help but speak about what they had experienced. (Acts 4:19-20) Ok so all that to say this:

We receive the Baptism in the Holy Spirit (Filling of the Holy Spirit, whatever theological term you wish to apply because they are the same as evidenced in NT writings) when we receive that wonderful grace and promise, we receive it only in order to be witnesses for Christ (Acts 1:8) and when we receive the Promise of the Father, we should have a boldness and passion that is unmatched in all Christendom, yet I can't even begin to express my frustration at how many claim to have this wonderful gift and just sit on their bottoms on a church pew and dare to say that they are doing all they can to follow Christ. Am I being over zealous here or what? Honestly tell me, I feel like I'm going crazy because it's so frustrating when I tell someone who says they are Spirit-filled that they need to be witnessing they rebuff me and tell me to worry about myself.

This is by no means aimed at any one person in particular so please don't feel that way, but if it steps on some toes then I hope that I can get some people going. I just feel that as Pentecostals/Charismatics, believers who are filled with the Holy Spirit, we should above all Christians have unparalleled courage in witnessing, but it just seems that is lacking more and more... Am I missing something here?

 

[mrhappy3]

No you are correct. JW's put us to shame. we claim to be "empowered" but for what ? Why do people claim or go after the BITHS if they just sit on it. So, are we truly BITHS - I agree with Kathryn Kuhlman, many are just a bunch of tongue talkers..but that's it. BITHS should be a cannon to WITNESS. It needs reviewing, badly.

 

[TasManOfGod]

In todays breed of "charasmatics" the problem stems from the belief that we are baptized in the Holy Spirit at conversion. This sets up conditions for a powerless Church as it had been for so long before. To any who are not speaking in tongues , like Paul I would encourage you to seek after that which by the grace of God has been made available to ALL believers.

 

[mrhappy3]

In todays breed of "charasmatics" the problem stems from the belief that we are baptized in the Holy Spirit at conversion. This sets up conditions for a powerless Church as it had been for so long before. To any who are not speaking in tongues , like Paul I would encourage you to seek after that which by the grace of God has been made available to ALL believers.

I have spoken in tongues for 21 years, I do believe it most definitely charges the spiritual atmosphere - within and without - I cant explain the dynamics of how it works, but something is happening for sure. What I would sooner advise, is that we go after a deep Baptism in the Spirit. You can call it emotion, but something has to give, and when it does, the Spirit will come crashing IN, DOWN & OUT of you. This can only happen with a deep, true hunger and seeking in your heart. I will stick my neck out and say, very few have experienced this.

 

[TasManOfGod]

I have spoken in tongues for 21 years, I do believe it most definitely charges the spiritual atmosphere - within and without - I cant explain the dynamics of how it works, but something is happening for sure. What I would sooner advise, is that we go after a deep Baptism in the Spirit. You can call it emotion, but something has to give, and when it does, the Spirit will come crashing IN, DOWN & OUT of you. This can only happen with a deep, true hunger and seeking in your heart. I will stick my neck out and say, very few have experienced this.

Yes I agree - Paul knew what he was talking about

 

[jiminpa]

But I have seen more conversions in my life by going to my job, than anything I did intentionally.

I have been wanting to make a living in advancing God's kingdom for over 30 years, but nothing has worked that way yet. I believe that it will. If someone looked at me right now they would assume that I am just occupying a pew. That doesn't mean that I am content in it. I am tired of false starts and occupational failures, and want to move in God's direction, but in His timing, not mine. One of those false starts hurt some people spiritually. They thought they were ready for the battle they were stepping into and weren't.

 

[Source Scripture]

But I have seen more conversions in my life by going to my job, than anything I did intentionally.

I have been wanting to make a living in advancing God's kingdom for over 30 years, but nothing has worked that way yet. I believe that it will. If someone looked at me right now they would assume that I am just occupying a pew. That doesn't mean that I am content in it. I am tired of false starts and occupational failures, and want to move in God's direction, but in His timing, not mine. One of those false starts hurt some people spiritually. They thought they were ready for the battle they were stepping into and weren't.

Be encouraged, Paul saw how the grace spread to more and more people, through the weakness, in 2 Corinthians 4:15. Thanks, Source Scripture.

 

[jiminpa]

Be encouraged, Paul saw how the grace spread to more and more people, through the weakness, in 2 Corinthians 4:15. Thanks, Source Scripture.

I appreciate and often need the encouragement. I think the timing is near. Nothing is working for me, and I don't have the heart for anything but finding my calling. There was a recent prophecy encouraging me. I think we need one or two personal steps before the path becomes clear. It should be soon.

 

[mrhappy3]

Well I discovered, the best place for me is on the streets, with the lost souls. Got bored preaching to the converted.....x

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Well I discovered, the best place for me is on the streets, with the lost souls. Got bored preaching to the converted.....x

Do you do open air or mostly how you did with the Olympics and pass out tracts? Do you go alone or have others who do ministry too? I only ask because I have been commissioned by the Lord to street ministry. I have had several visions of myself walking down the streets preaching the gospel, laying hands on the sick, so I try to soak up as much as I can from those who already do so. I have credentials to preach from the Assemblies of God, but something within me wants to abandon those just so I can go and preach on the streets, but I figure I can do so in the sanctuary and then outside it too.

 

[Optimax]

But I have seen more conversions in my life by going to my job, than anything I did intentionally.

This is such a powerful statement!

The Baptism in The Holy Spirit is for power to witness.

The strongest witness that any Christian can give is the life we lead before others.

When people notice there is a difference between us and them and are born again because they want what they see "jiminpa" has. That is power that witnessed.

Some are anointed when it comes to street ministry.

Some are not.

The Body is made of of many parts and we are not all the nose.

Therefore we all do not function our best the same.

 

[mrhappy3]

I agree, I think God just wants us "out there" in whatever capacity. Too much time and thought is given to "my calling". I dont care what credentials somebody holds, that's just for protocol amongst men. The bottom line is PREACH IT. I have held meetings in the workplace several times, taking people to Church from work, Had prayer meetings there etc. it don't bother me, where there are people, there is souls to be had. I couldn't care less for titles either, evangelist etc. I have preached Open air on a megaphone etc - I don't need some denominational endorsement for that. GOD wants us to get the job done, I take my orders from him. Call me a rebel or maverick, but I have NEVER felt comfortable under the "control" of any ministry or group. But thankfully I have found a team I love to work with, and they are just like me. Free to witness wherever to whoever, at any time. IM HAPPY.

Want a platform ? Go where there is people ! x

 

[Catherineanne]

Not that I claim to be some super-human evangelist who can yell the most compelling gospel message to the masses, but how sad is it when even if a Christian only shares their faith just once in their entire life they have done more evangelism than more than 95% of all other Christians.

Where on earth do you get that number from? Where on earth do you get the idea that any Christians can live a lifetime and never mention their faith to anyone? I simply do not believe that this is true for one moment.

I am probably one of the least evangelical people on this planet, and happy to remain so, but plenty of people know about my faith, just by knowing me. And if they ask about it, as sometimes happens, I will tell them.

 

[Catherineanne]

I appreciate and often need the encouragement. I think the timing is near. Nothing is working for me, and I don't have the heart for anything but finding my calling. There was a recent prophecy encouraging me. I think we need one or two personal steps before the path becomes clear. It should be soon.

Imo, what will always work is to be who you are before God; find out what that means first, and the rest will follow.

 

[Catherineanne]

I agree, I think God just wants us "out there" in whatever capacity. Too much time and thought is given to "my calling". I dont care what credentials somebody holds, that's just for protocol amongst men. The bottom line is PREACH IT.

That probably works for you, mrhappy, but do you not see a danger in letting anyone go and preach whatever they like?

I am happy that you have found fulfillment doing what you are, but surely we do not all have the same abilities.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Where on earth do you get that number from? Where on earth do you get the idea that any Christians can live a lifetime and never mention their faith to anyone? I simply do not believe that this is true for one moment.

I am probably one of the least evangelical people on this planet, and happy to remain so, but plenty of people know about my faith, just by knowing me. And if they ask about it, as sometimes happens, I will tell them.

Hi Catherineanne, good to see you here. Would like to point out to you that you highlight the purpose of this OP beautifully. It is to inquire as to why Pentecostal/Charismatic Christians, who claim to be Baptized in the Holy Spirit, do not share their faith. Having the Baptism in the Holy Spirit should give us as a group (classifying all who share this blessed experience) great boldness to share our faith. Look at what it did for the Apostles in Acts, WOW! Maybe 95% was a tad bit high, but I would almost garauntee if there was a poll conducted and people were honest the amount of people that shared their faith would be very small.

I agree with the post Optimax made to an extent, living a life that is changed is a very powerful way to open the door to evangelism, but if all we ever do is just live a changed life and don't tell people the power that lives within us that enables us to be different then that's not evangelism. There isn't some magical tattoo placed on our forehead that identifies us as Christians, we must open our mouths.

The reference I made to running the streets mad with the gospel is not a literal get out on the street to minister call, but if you have the remedy to a deadly disease, should you not share it with all you see, or would you keep it to yourself? We have the cure to the disease that has plagued mankind since the beginning, the cross of Christ. So whether at work, school, community, wherever we should be sharing and finding opportunities to lead others to the Lord. Like I started the OP with, no one here has to feel like I'm stepping on your toes, as a couple posts almost seem that way. I don't know any of you well enough to make a statement as such and before I would I would have to check myself to make sure I'm not being hypocritical.

 

[Catherineanne]

Hi Catherineanne, good to see you here. Would like to point out to you that you highlight the purpose of this OP beautifully. It is to inquire as to why Pentecostal/Charismatic Christians, who claim to be Baptized in the Holy Spirit, do not share their faith. Having the Baptism in the Holy Spirit should give us as a group (classifying all who share this blessed experience) great boldness to share our faith. Look at what it did for the Apostles in Acts, WOW! Maybe 95% was a tad bit high, but I would almost garauntee if there was a poll conducted and people were honest the amount of people that shared their faith would be very small.

So the number was made up? There was no poll, this is a guess? Aka a lie?

What is that all about? Are we (ie Christians) into making up stuff now? And not just any old stuff; stuff that condemns 95% of our brothers and sisters as being less holy than we are?

Lord have mercy on us all!

I agree with the post Optimax made to an extent, living a life that is changed is a very powerful way to open the door to evangelism, but if all we ever do is just live a changed life and don't tell people the power that lives within us that enables us to be different then that's not evangelism. There isn't some magical tattoo placed on our forehead that identifies us as Christians, we must open our mouths.

I disagree. Repectfully, I hope. In Baptism we do indeed have a mark made on our foreheads, which sets us apart from other people. And bearing that mark, we behave differently, even if we do not say anything at all. If we are not identifiable as Christians without opening our mouths, then we might as well keep quiet.

The way I see it, if I do not live a faithful life, consistent with the teachings of Christ, then there is no point whatever me standing on a street corner for hours on end, or boring my neighbours into a coma with the gospel. Our faith has to be first and foremost what they see in us that IS different from everyone else.

And having seen that difference, then they may ask about it, and we can tell them.

The reference I made to running the streets mad with the gospel is not a literal get out on the street to minister call, but if you have the remedy to a deadly disease, should you not share it with all you see, or would you keep it to yourself? We have the cure to the disease that has plagued mankind since the beginning, the cross of Christ. So whether at work, school, community, wherever we should be sharing and finding opportunities to lead others to the Lord. Like I started the OP with, no one here has to feel like I'm stepping on your toes, as a couple posts almost seem that way. I don't know any of you well enough to make a statement as such and before I would I would have to check myself to make sure I'm not being hypocritical.

Well, I am a guest in this part of the forum; I came to defend those 95% of Christians, who I think have been wrongly maligned in the OP. I have no intention of teaching against SF/C teaching, but as I see it, the 'cure to the disease' is Christ's love. Unless we get that bit right first, all the preaching in the world is just so much noise.

Paraphrasing Paul there, but the message is the same. Love comes first. Therefore, I will not attempt to evangelise anyone unless I know that I love them first. And preaching at someone who has not asked me to do so is not my idea of love. Others may be called to do this, but I am not.

St Francis of Assissi said, 'Preach the Gospel at all times. If necessary, use words.'

 

[ByTheSpirit]

So the number was made up? There was no poll, this is a guess? Aka a lie?

What is that all about? Are we (ie Christians) into making up stuff now? And not just any old stuff; stuff that condemns 95% of our brothers and sisters as being less holy than we are?

Lord have mercy on us all!



I disagree. Repectfully, I hope. In Baptism we do indeed have a mark made on our foreheads, which sets us apart from other people. And bearing that mark, we behave differently, even if we do not say anything at all. If we are not identifiable as Christians without opening our mouths, then we might as well keep quiet.

The way I see it, if I do not live a faithful life, consistent with the teachings of Christ, then there is no point whatever me standing on a street corner for hours on end, or boring my neighbours into a coma with the gospel. Our faith has to be first and foremost what they see in us that IS different from everyone else.

And having seen that difference, then they may ask about it, and we can tell them.



Well, I am a guest in this part of the forum; I came to defend those 95% of Christians, who I think have been wrongly maligned in the OP. I have no intention of teaching against SF/C teaching, but as I see it, the 'cure to the disease' is Christ's love. Unless we get that bit right first, all the preaching in the world is just so much noise.

Paraphrasing Paul there, but the message is the same. Love comes first. Therefore, I will not attempt to evangelise anyone unless I know that I love them first. And preaching at someone who has not asked me to do so is not my idea of love. Others may be called to do this, but I am not.

St Francis of Assissi said, 'Preach the Gospel at all times. If necessary, use words.'

So you admit you don't share your faith unless someone asks you to? I have yet to meet a single person who asked me to preach to them and they were not saved. If you feel insulted by my OP even after I said it wasn't aimed at you or anyone here is not my ordeal, if your toes were stepped on then I suppose it was needed. Churches today do too much side stepping issues in order to keep the peace, the only way revival is going to return to the Church and it is desperately needed, is by believers standing up and confronting issues within. In Acts there are no less than 3 accounts where the "Church" gathered to confront issues; Acts 1 in replacing Judas, Acts 6 in spreading materials and food evenly, Acts 15 in how the gospel should be shared... God even in Acts 6-8 used persecution to get the church to go outside the walls of Jerusalem and share with the surrounding countryside.

I'd like to see the photo of your tattoo that you say you got the moment you were saved, not baptized. Water Baptism has nothing to do with salvation and is totally seperate from the Baptism in the Holy Spirit, or otherwise known as the Promise of the Father. You could stand 10 people up against a wall and not be able to look at each one in physical senses and distinguish who is Christian and who is not. That is what that comment referred too.

Lastly, the Apostle Paul was perfectly ok with people sharing the gospel for whatever reason, read Philippians 1 because what's important is that the message gets out so others can hear. If you don't share your faith because you don't want to bore other people with it, then that's a deeper problem than just your concern over their curiosity. If you really cared about their souls you would share it because even if out of a crowd of 100, only 1 person was saved by you preaching the true gospel message of repentance towards God and faith in Jesus Christ, then it was worth it. You should never wait until you feel led to witness, or share your faith, because God has already told you to do so (Matthew 28:19-20; Mark 16:15; Luke 24:45-48; Acts 1:8; 2 Timothy 4:2).

If you are unaware (or ignorant) of current numbers of professing Christians who do not share their faith, then I don't see how you can tell me that I'm just making numbers up. "According to the late Bill Bright, “a bare 2 percent regularly share their faith in Christ.”" Ray Comfort quoting Bill Bright. Now Barna group did a survey in 2005 that said that more than half had shared their faith for the most part of that part of the decade. So it depends on who you ask, but the numbers are there. I'm not making anything up, research it a little .

 

[Catherineanne]

So you admit you don't share your faith unless someone asks you to?

No, that is not what I said. I share my faith any time anyone sees me, or how I live or what I do.

I ALWAYS live my faith, but I only talk about it at an appropriate time. Don't get me wrong; it is my favourite thing to talk about, but I never impose it on anyone.

Different thing.

I have yet to meet a single person who asked me to preach to them and they were not saved.

I am not surprised. I wouldn't ask you to either, and I am.

I have shared my faith with lots of people, always after being invited to.

If you feel insulted by my OP even after I said it wasn't aimed at you or anyone here is not my ordeal, if your toes were stepped on then I suppose it was needed.

You made up a figure and deliberately bore false witness against 95% of your brothers and sisters in faith, and you think that is my problem, because I object?

May I remind you that our God is Truth, and rather objects to anything else?

Churches today do too much side stepping issues in order to keep the peace, the only way revival is going to return to the Church and it is desperately needed, is by believers standing up and confronting issues within.

Exactly. That is what I am doing. Confronting Pharasaic nonsense maligning other Christians for no good reason. I am so glad you approve.

In Acts there are no less than 3 accounts where the "Church" gathered to confront issues; Acts 1 in replacing Judas, Acts 6 in spreading materials and food evenly, Acts 15 in how the gospel should be shared... God even in Acts 6-8 used persecution to get the church to go outside the walls of Jerusalem and share with the surrounding countryside.

Most excellent. When did they get together to condemn 95% of their brothers and sisters as inadequate?

I'd like to see the photo of your tattoo that you say you got the moment you were saved, not baptized.

I have an indelible mark of my baptism, visible only to God, and which cannot be effaced by any work of any man.

Water Baptism has nothing to do with salvation and is totally seperate from the Baptism in the Holy Spirit, or otherwise known as the Promise of the Father. You could stand 10 people up against a wall and not be able to look at each one in physical senses and distinguish who is Christian and who is not. That is what that comment referred too.

I am not going to debate baptism here, because that would contravene good manners, not to mention forum rules. But your other point did not speak of people standing against a wall. It spoke of people going about their lives.

If anyone here goes about his or her daily life without anyone knowing they are a Christian, then I would be amazed. I think it cannot be done.

Lastly, the Apostle Paul was perfectly ok with people sharing the gospel for whatever reason, read Philippians 1 because what's important is that the message gets out so others can hear.

The apostle Paul said that some are called to preach, some to other things. He did not say we are all evangelists.

If you don't share your faith because you don't want to bore other people with it, then that's a deeper problem than just your concern over their curiosity. If you really cared about their souls you would share it because even if out of a crowd of 100, only 1 person was saved by you preaching the true gospel message of repentance towards God and faith in Jesus Christ, then it was worth it. You should never wait until you feel led to witness, or share your faith, because God has already told you to do so (Matthew 28:19-20; Mark 16:15; Luke 24:45-48; Acts 1:8; 2 Timothy 4:2).

I disagree. God has not told me anything of the kind. There is no verse in Scripture that says, 'Don't bother waiting upon the Spirit of God, just leap in there and say what you like when you like; never wait to feel led.' That is rather heterodox teaching, don't you think?

If you are unaware (or ignorant) of current numbers of professing Christians who do not share their faith, then I don't see how you can tell me that I'm just making numbers up.

I do not know any Christian who keeps his or her faith a secret, and I know many hundreds, perhaps thousands, who make no secret of it. Therefore, the statistics cannot be right unless for every open Christian that I know, there are 19 others keeping it a secret from the whole world for their entire lifetime. Does that seem likely to you?

"According to the late Bill Bright, “a bare 2 percent regularly share their faith in Christ.”" Ray Comfort quoting Bill Bright. Now Barna group did a survey in 2005 that said that more than half had shared their faith for the most part of that part of the decade. So it depends on who you ask, but the numbers are there. I'm not making anything up, research it a little .

Your link doesn't link to that story.

And where did the Barna group get its number from? Who were the people asked? In any case, he claims something other than you did. He says 2% share their faith regularly, and that around half had done so in the past ten years. So your figure is way out of order.

Feel free to retract the calumny directed to the Bride of Christ.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Yeah actually I gave the church 3% points benefit of a doubt. And if you claim you don't witness because you haven't heard God tell you to then you need to get in the Bible and read some. For example in Philippians 1 which you apparently haven't read, Paul makes no mention of callings of individual Christians. Instead he says that because he's been imprisoned more people are preaching now than before, some from pure motives and other for wrong motives, but he doesn't care about the motive, only that the message is shared. You are correct that we are not all called to be evangelist, but we are all called to witness to God's grace. You get upset with me because I "made up" numbers and "maligned" my brothers and sisters in Christ, but accuse me of Pharisaical nonsense, so even if I am wrong in my post (which I am not) what makes you right for maligning me. You don't know me, the Lord is my Judge not you. I couldn't expect an Anglican to understand the necessity of evangelism, especially considering the Hail Mary prayer you have posted as your signature line. Blasphemous stuff there. I'm not going to continue to discuss this with you, I expect you to reply to this but this is the last you'll see me reply to you directly. Thank you for visiting and reading this OP.