Are dragons evil and should Christians avoid them?

[The Liturgist]

I am really fascinated in dragons and other forms of mythical creatures. I just find them beautiful. The thing I'm concerned about is that if they are viewed as evil in the bible? And should I avoid wearing a shirt with a dragon print on it or watch movies with them in it? Thanks

I would wear a shirt with heraldic depictions of dragons, like the Welsh flag, and I would watch Disney films where dragons are associated with the devil, specifically Sleeping Beauty (1959). I would probably avoid Game of Thrones although spoiler alert, the princess and her main dragon turn out to be diabolical, genocidal, and insane

 

[DragonFox91]

My screenname was chosen on the spot for a fantasy game I was playing. It was the first thing that popped into my head because dragons are associated w/ fantasy.

I made it the screenname here without even thinking & a few days later thought ‘if dragons are associated w/ evil in the Bible should I really be using it?’ It’s nagged at me since.

But a week ago or so I realized that the Leviathan (basically a sea dragon) is in the Bible & is one of God’s creations. The Leviathan is celebrated as good just like everything God has created. And it bows to God.

 

[dms1972]

Is Leviathan in the Bible celebrated as good? I think its a symbol of chaos, nevertheless God is Sovereign over it.

 

[Estrid]

We love our dragons

[/QUOTE]

 

[AgapeBible]

Ok, I tried liking dragons, but the thing is, I am not really into reptiles. I like mammals and birds. Growing up in Florida, I had to deal with snakes and alligators. I live in the suburbs, a neighborhood of people. There are alligators around sewers, canals, ditches, lakes ponds, swamps, back yards, just about everywhere. The alligator population was kept under control by legalized hunting, catching gators and putting them in zoos or wild life relief places. I originally like unicorns, Pegasus, fairies, and angels. I read Bible stories and traditional fairy tales. Then I started to like the fairy tales and folk stories of other cultures. I read mythology, and not all Earth countries and cultures hate dragons and see them as evil. Some societies like dragons and see them as good, like China.

When I have little in Christian fundamentalist private school they told us the Genesis story of Adam and Eve, in the Garden of Eden. I thought that God had ripped the legs of Satan when he resembled a lizard-like dragon. I was scary to think of God being so angry, To me, it seemed God had really gotten so angry he had lost his temper.

I got bored with typical fairytales nd wanted something different. I read the Chronicles of Narnia, and I came across books for young people, the Enchanted Forest series, with Dealing With Dragons as the first of the series.


A lot of the wicked stuff I mentions was my own sin, my own fault. I developed a bondage fetish in middle and high school. Sometimes I enjoyed it, but when the Lord Almighty opened my eyes to see how cruel, evil and wrong bondage is, I repented and with the Lord I got free. It was a struggle, but now that I have seen the light the Lord set me free. I have a problem with rudeness. I am trying to control my tongue and typing fingers. Think before you communicate. I tried to stay away from magic stuff, but in the fantasy world that is very hard. Usually in my stories that bad guys do the magic. I did not want to have a lot of magic or paganism violence, idolatry sinful sex,

I realize books put in a lot of that stuff to make it exciting,

I got involved with otherkin, this crazy idea where young people don't think they're human, they think their soul got mistakenly put in a human body. THey are really a dragon, or a unicorn, elf, fairy, mermaid, werewolf, vampire, or werecat THey don't want to be human.

This is majorly unhealthy. I pretended to be a dragon, but I was not happy with my self. I kept questioning about dragons, searching for answers in the Bible. I was unsure if God was truly good. THere's a lot of upsetting dirty stories in the Bible that do not sound like justice. The Bible does depict dragons as evil, Satan is depicted as a dragon. And a lot of medieval dragons are very fearsome and bloodthirsty. THe Lord spoke to me. I was wavering back and forth like a wave tossed on the sea. I know I love Jesus so I gave up the dragons. I can write stories and draw pictures of other things. Now I am more interested in getting to know human nature. I want to write stories about people and how they change after receving God's permanent unconditional perfect all-forgiving love. Let's see how those demons stand up to that.

 

[coffee4u]

Is Leviathan in the Bible celebrated as good? I think its a symbol of chaos, nevertheless God is Sovereign over it.

It's a water monster/dragon/dinosaur. God described it because Job knew it as a living fearsome creature.

Job 41
"I will not fail to speak of Leviathan's limbs, its strength and its graceful form. 13 Who can strip off its outer coat? Who can penetrate its double coat of armor? 14 Who dares open the doors of its mouth, ringed about with fearsome teeth? 15 Its back has rows of shields tightly sealed together; 16 each is so close to the next that no air can pass between.

That doesn't mean the animal could not also be used spiritually or metaphorically. Just because it is used metaphorically does not cancel out the fact it was a real creature. Lions, sheep and goats are also used in the Bible in spiritual ways, but are also real creatures.

Used to picture satan.
1 Peter 5:8
Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.

Used to picture Jesus.
Revelation 5:5
"And one of the elders said to me, “Weep no more; behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has conquered, so that he can open the scroll and its seven seals.”

An animal is neither good or evil. It's merely being used to form a mind picture of something.

 

[eclipsenow]

It's a water monster/dragon/dinosaur. God described it because Job knew it as a living fearsome creature.

Job 41
"I will not fail to speak of Leviathan's limbs, its strength and its graceful form. 13 Who can strip off its outer coat? Who can penetrate its double coat of armor? 14 Who dares open the doors of its mouth, ringed about with fearsome teeth? 15 Its back has rows of shields tightly sealed together; 16 each is so close to the next that no air can pass between.

That doesn't mean the animal could not also be used spiritually or metaphorically. Just because it is used metaphorically does not cancel out the fact it was a real creature. Lions, sheep and goats are also used in the Bible in spiritual ways, but are also real creatures.

Used to picture satan.
1 Peter 5:8
Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.

Used to picture Jesus.
Revelation 5:5
"And one of the elders said to me, “Weep no more; behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has conquered, so that he can open the scroll and its seven seals.”

An animal is neither good or evil. It's merely being used to form a mind picture of something.

It's not real - it's an ancient symbol of incredible power. Indeed, it seems to be a metaphor for nature's chaotic actions - and the answer is only God is able to tame and understand nature's chaos. Behemoth is also used in this way.

 

[coffee4u]

It's not real - it's an ancient symbol of incredible power. Indeed, it seems to be a metaphor for nature's chaotic actions - and the answer is only God is able to tame and understand nature's chaos. Behemoth is also used in this way.

Why are Leviathan and behemoth not real?

 

[eclipsenow]

Why are Leviathan and behemoth not real?

It's about recognising literary genres and how their original audiences would have received these images. It's also about context. As the Reformed Bible Commentary says:

Job 41:1
41:1 Leviathan. Possibly “Leviathan” and “Behemoth” form a poetic repetition, both referring to one creature. The poetic description in these lines is anchored in nature, but the creature or creatures described represent something more. Like Leviathan in Is. 27:1 and Ps. 74:14, they symbolize threatening powers in the heavenly and earthly realms (Rev. 12:7, 13:1).

Job 41:1 - ESV Reformation Study Bible - Bible Gateway​

 

[Estrid]

It's a water monster/dragon/dinosaur. God described it because Job knew it as a living fearsome creature.

Job 41
"I will not fail to speak of Leviathan's limbs, its strength and its graceful form. 13 Who can strip off its outer coat? Who can penetrate its double coat of armor? 14 Who dares open the doors of its mouth, ringed about with fearsome teeth? 15 Its back has rows of shields tightly sealed together; 16 each is so close to the next that no air can pass between.

That doesn't mean the animal could not also be used spiritually or metaphorically. Just because it is used metaphorically does not cancel out the fact it was a real creature. Lions, sheep and goats are also used in the Bible in spiritual ways, but are also real creatures.

Used to picture satan.
1 Peter 5:8
Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.

Used to picture Jesus.
Revelation 5:5
"And one of the elders said to me, “Weep no more; behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has conquered, so that he can open the scroll and its seven seals.”

An animal is neither good or evil. It's merely being used to form a mind picture of something.

' fact," that it was a real animal?

 

[coffee4u]

It's about recognising literary genres and how their original audiences would have received these images. It's also about context. As the Reformed Bible Commentary says:

Job 41:1
41:1 Leviathan. Possibly “Leviathan” and “Behemoth” form a poetic repetition, both referring to one creature. The poetic description in these lines is anchored in nature, but the creature or creatures described represent something more. Like Leviathan in Is. 27:1 and Ps. 74:14, they symbolize threatening powers in the heavenly and earthly realms (Rev. 12:7, 13:1).

Job 41:1 - ESV Reformation Study Bible - Bible Gateway​

"The Reformed Bible Commentary"
I googled "The reformed Bible" to know exactly which Bible that is. I am assuming it's "The Reformation Study Bible"(edited by R.C. Sproul)?

Certainly there are different literary genres within scripture but using an animal in poetry or in a spiritual way does not mean the animal in question is something made up. If poetic description renders an animal as non existent then deer also don't exist.
Psalm 42:1
As the deer pants for streams of water, so my soul longs after You, O God.
An animal used in poetry with spiritual imagery.

How indeed would Job have received this message from God? I believe he would have known and recognized leviathan for what it was, a sea monster; and behemoth for what it was, a land walking dragon/dinosaur. The same way I am sure that Job knew what a deer was. Why wouldn't he?
Job 40:15
“Look at Behemoth, which I made along with you and which feeds on grass like an ox.

The Bible is rich in animal imagery from lambs, sheep, goats, bulls, turtledoves, donkeys, dogs, heifers, the aforementioned deer, lions, snakes and more. All of them, quite real no matter which literary genre they are from.
"imagery in poetry means it isn't real" is not a compelling argument. You will need more than that.

Also a commentary isn't scripture, its the thoughts of the person who edited. However helpful footnotes can be they are not the breathed words of God. It's the opinion of the person who added them. If you talked to them, I am quite sure you would run into things you disagree with them on, as we all do on here.

 

[coffee4u]

' fact," that it was a real animal?

As a Christian I believe all of scripture is God's breathed word.
2 Timothy 3:16-17

16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Taking all scripture as God's breathed word I see that sea creatures were created on day 5 and land animals on day 6. Leviathan is a sea creature and Behemoth is a land dweller.
Genesis 1
20 And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.”

24 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so.

He then reminds us often that this is so.
Exodus: 20
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them

Colossians 1:16
For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. There are easily 100 or more verses on God as creator.

Given that foundation I take God at his word when he says,
“Look at Behemoth, which I made along with you"
That he did indeed create Behemoth alongside of mankind on day 6.

To not take God at his word after claiming his word is true would be extreamly hypocritical don't you think?

 

[eclipsenow]

"The Reformed Bible Commentary"
I googled "The reformed Bible" to know exactly which Bible that is. I am assuming it's "The Reformation Study Bible"(edited by R.C. Sproul)?

Yeah - it's the commentary on the bible.

Certainly there are different literary genres within scripture but using an animal in poetry or in a spiritual way does not mean the animal in question is something made up.

Leviathan is known to be a mythical animal - so quoting a myth conjures up the imagery of myth.
There is no animal in the REAL world that literally resembles Leviathan.

If poetic description renders an animal as non existent then deer also don't exist.
Psalm 42:1
As the deer pants for streams of water, so my soul longs after You, O God.
An animal used in poetry with spiritual imagery.

But if it's quoting a mythical animal, then it's symbolic writing - kind of like the poetically structured and mythical talking snake in early Genesis. The original audience KNEW snakes didn't talk - so it makes you wonder what genre the author is writing in?

How indeed would Job have received this message from God? I believe he would have known and recognized leviathan for what it was, a sea monster; and behemoth for what it was, a land walking dragon/dinosaur. The same way I am sure that Job knew what a deer was. Why wouldn't he?
Job 40:15
“Look at Behemoth, which I made along with you and which feeds on grass like an ox.

So you're trying to prove one mythical beast literal and real world by referring to the same book's use of ANOTHER mythical creature?

It's symbolism for "Consider...." not literally "Look at this fantastic monster that could devour you in a moment. Job - LOOK! LOOK OUT JOB LOOK OUT.... oh no... too late." Not at all! Instead...

40:15 Behemoth. The Hebrew root is used for “cattle,” but the form here implies the meaning “the beast beyond comparison.” Parts of the description, especially v. 19, go beyond any natural creature like the hippopotamus or the crocodile. Canaanite literature describes the goddess Anat overcoming a terrible bull and a seven-headed “Leviathan.” The Lord’s speech indicates that whatever may be the forces suggested by such creatures, they are no more than playthings in comparison with His unfathomable power.​

The Bible is rich in animal imagery from lambs, sheep, goats, bulls, turtledoves, donkeys, dogs, heifers, the aforementioned deer, lions, snakes and more. All of them, quite real no matter which literary genre they are from.

It also references real entities with poetic descriptions for angels and demons, and fantastic beasts in Daniel for the 4 kingdoms, and heaven and earth being moved and stars falling for the collapse of various Old Testament Empires, and a talking snake, and weird creatures in Revelation, and uses 1000 to mean forever or a very long time, and 7 as God's perfection and 6 as man's number (days we work, 'day' we were created on) and many other symbols and images. The temple itself has abstract art in it, in that it contains pillars that go up to a .... what? They don't connect to the roof - they're just pillars to nowhere... or the heavens?

"imagery in poetry means it isn't real" is not a compelling argument. You will need more than that.

But quoting a known mythical beast DOES mean it is symbolic. You're going to need more than just asserting it is like a deer when all the biblical scholars I know of say it's referencing known mythology of the time.

Also a commentary isn't scripture, its the thoughts of the person who edited.

Neither are the words of a random dude on the internet who relies on the power of mere ASSERTION to prove a known mythical creature is REAL. You've asserted - and then said something irrelevant about how the bible refers to deer - and then complained when I quote a verified academic source. When are you going to do more than assert?

 

[Estrid]

As a Christian I believe all of scripture is God's breathed word.
2 Timothy 3:16-17

16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Taking all scripture as God's breathed word I see that sea creatures were created on day 5 and land animals on day 6. Leviathan is a sea creature and Behemoth is a land dweller.
Genesis 1
20 And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.”

24 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so.

He then reminds us often that this is so.
Exodus: 20
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them

Colossians 1:16
For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. There are easily 100 or more verses on God as creator.

Given that foundation I take God at his word when he says,
“Look at Behemoth, which I made along with you"
That he did indeed create Behemoth alongside of mankind on day 6.

To not take God at his word after claiming his word is true would be extreamly hypocritical don't you think?

Hypocritical? If that were the actual topic, yes.

But what you are doing is choosing to believe your own
interpretation of a book you choose to think is
God breathed and from there claim to state "facts"
which are in truth beliefs.

You don't think Jesus was a door, yet it says he
was. Pick n choose.

Then too, to claim God really created a flood is to
state as a fact that he is a mass murderer, and,
you ignore the story written right into the earth
itself by the very god you say you worship.

Tell me about hypocrisy.

 

[Samsun]

I visited the Ark Encounter in Kentucky USA a few months ago, and they have stuff on dragons and how they were originally just dinosaurs that later had myths attached to them by various cultures.

Here's one article on the Ark Encounter website about it: Hic Sunt Dracones

And here's one from Answers in Genesis: Dragon Legends

 

[coffee4u]

Hypocritical? If that were the actual topic, yes.

But what you are doing is choosing to believe your own
interpretation of a book you choose to think is
God breathed and from there claim to state "facts"
which are in truth beliefs.

You don't think Jesus was a door, yet it says he
was. Pick n choose.

Then too, to claim God really created a flood is to
state as a fact that he is a mass murderer, and,
you ignore the story written right into the earth
itself by the very god you say you worship.

Tell me about hypocrisy.

So you think a Christian should not believe the Bible? Should a Muslim also not believe the Koran? A Buddhist not believe the words of Buddha?

I am not choosing to believe my own interpretation. I don't choose to think 'this is God's breathed word' It tells me "Every word is God breathed" It either is or it isn't.
The only 'choice' someone has is:
1. Believe what it says.
2. Don't believe what it says.

You don't believe what it says, that is your choice. No one said you have to believe but I and others do.

The Bible has a variety of literary types. There is historical text, laws, prophesies, poetry and parables. You don't read laws as poetry, you don't read parables as history.

Jesus is indeed a type of door or gate.
10 “Very truly I tell you Pharisees, anyone who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. 2 The one who enters by the gate is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 The gatekeeper opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. 5 But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger’s voice.” 6 Jesus used this figure of speech, but the Pharisees did not understand what he was telling them.
7 Therefore Jesus said again, “Very truly I tell you, I am the gate for the sheep.

Notice the text says figure of speech.
God didn't leave us to wonder what type of text this was he tells us this is a figure of speech.
A figure of speech is a word or phrase that possesses a separate meaning from its literal definition. It can be a metaphor or simile designed to make a comparison.
Jesus is saying that he is the way for people to be saved.

You claim God really created a flood.

God owns this world and it literally holding it together. If he stepped back from keeping it together, it and we would no longer exist.
Colossians 1:17
He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Sounds to me like you do believe in God, you simply don't like him. Again that is your choice, God isn't forcing you to like him.

There is no 'story written into the earth' The story is a man made story, made up by people like yourself who don't like God. So go believe in it, we don't care. You obviously care a lot in what we believe in, why?

 

[Estrid]

So you think a Christian should not believe the Bible? Should a Muslim also not believe the Koran? A Buddhist not believe the words of Buddha?

I am not choosing to believe my own interpretation. I don't choose to think 'this is God's breathed word' It tells me "Every word is God breathed" It either is or it isn't.
The only 'choice' someone has is:
1. Believe what it says.
2. Don't believe what it says.

You don't believe what it says, that is your choice. No one said you have to believe but I and others do.

The Bible has a variety of literary types. There is historical text, laws, prophesies, poetry and parables. You don't read laws as poetry, you don't read parables as history.

Jesus is indeed a type of door or gate.
10 “Very truly I tell you Pharisees, anyone who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. 2 The one who enters by the gate is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 The gatekeeper opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. 5 But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger’s voice.” 6 Jesus used this figure of speech, but the Pharisees did not understand what he was telling them.
7 Therefore Jesus said again, “Very truly I tell you, I am the gate for the sheep.

Notice the text says figure of speech.
God didn't leave us to wonder what type of text this was he tells us this is a figure of speech.
A figure of speech is a word or phrase that possesses a separate meaning from its literal definition. It can be a metaphor or simile designed to make a comparison.
Jesus is saying that he is the way for people to be saved.


God owns this world and it literally holding it together. If he stepped back from keeping it together, it and we would no longer exist.
Colossians 1:17
He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Sounds to me like you do believe in God, you simply don't like him. Again that is your choice, God isn't forcing you to like him.

There is no 'story written into the earth' The story is a man made story, made up by people like yourself who don't like God. So go believe in it, we don't care. You obviously care a lot in what we believe in, why?

You obviously have to make up things about me to try to
make a point. Don't bother explaining why.

 

[coffee4u]

Yeah - it's the commentary on the bible.


Leviathan is known to be a mythical animal - so quoting a myth conjures up the imagery of myth.

Known by whom?
Known as in "general knowledge known in society"? Society doesn't believe in Jesus or Gods word. Do you listen to those people and agree with them on that? If no why not?
Plenty of them think God is a mythical creature.

Have you looked at society lately?

Going to take advice from them?

Just because something is 'known' doesn't mean a hill of beans.

There is no animal in the REAL world that literally resembles Leviathan.

You have never heard of animals they call Ichthyosaurs, Megalodons, Plesiosaurs etc? Pretty sure you have.

But if it's quoting a mythical animal, then it's symbolic writing - kind of like the poetically structured and mythical talking snake in early Genesis. The original audience KNEW snakes didn't talk - so it makes you wonder what genre the author is writing in?

Who says its quoting a mythical animal?
Genesis is literal. God created over 6 days.

Society? Society has shown itself to be completely bonkers.
Atheists? Again, you really want to listen and agree with them?

Who exactly says its mythical? And is this person/s you are aligning with actually deserving of this trust you have in them? Or are you just going along with the general flow of society in saying it's mythical. Keep in mind these same people don't believe in God and they think your faith is stupid. (I assume you have faith since you have called yourself an Anglican.)
1 Corinthians 3:19
For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight.
If the person you are gathering knowledge from has disowned Jesus how trustworthy do you think they are?

So you're trying to prove one mythical beast literal and real world by referring to the same book's use of ANOTHER mythical creature?

You have set up that it's mythical by claiming its mythical.
Why and who says its mythical? Which sends us back to the trustworthiness of the person/s you gathered this knowledge from. This is why I said you might want to check who came out with this 'knowledge' because they may believe Jesus is mythical too. Just because a person is smart and holds a PHD does not always make them correct. A person could hold every possible degree but if they have disowned Jesus and think hes a myth they are lost.

It's symbolism for "Consider...." not literally "Look at this fantastic monster that could devour you in a moment. Job - LOOK! LOOK OUT JOB LOOK OUT.... oh no... too late." Not at all! Instead...

40:15 Behemoth. The Hebrew root is used for “cattle,” but the form here implies the meaning “the beast beyond comparison.” Parts of the description, especially v. 19, go beyond any natural creature like the hippopotamus or the crocodile. Canaanite literature describes the goddess Anat overcoming a terrible bull and a seven-headed “Leviathan.” The Lord’s speech indicates that whatever may be the forces suggested by such creatures, they are no more than playthings in comparison with His unfathomable power.​

It also references real entities with poetic descriptions for angels and demons, and fantastic beasts in Daniel for the 4 kingdoms, and heaven and earth being moved and stars falling for the collapse of various Old Testament Empires, and a talking snake, and weird creatures in Revelation, and uses 1000 to mean forever or a very long time, and 7 as God's perfection and 6 as man's number (days we work, 'day' we were created on) and many other symbols and images. The temple itself has abstract art in it, in that it contains pillars that go up to a .... what? They don't connect to the roof - they're just pillars to nowhere... or the heavens?

I never said that there was no symbolism. Jesus is the door is also symbolism, this doesn't disqualify him from being real does it?
We all agree that the Bible contains symbolism. But symbolism doesn't disprove what is being mentioned what is being talked about is not real.
Levitation is simply a sea dinosaur.

But quoting a known mythical beast DOES mean it is symbolic. You're going to need more than just asserting it is like a deer when all the biblical scholars I know of say it's referencing known mythology of the time.

"Biblical scholars' Okay now you are getting closer. Which Biblical scholars? Do you agree with all of their doctrine? Where do they in turn get their information from? Who was their mentor? You can't believe someone simply because they have written a book or they have some title.

Neither are the words of a random dude on the internet who relies on the power of mere ASSERTION to prove a known mythical creature is REAL. You've asserted - and then said something irrelevant about how the bible refers to deer - and then complained when I quote a verified academic source. When are you going to do more than assert?

Every person is some random dude. Just because a person is educated and has gained letters after their name does not make them infallible, only God is infallible. Just because someone is a doctor or a scholar and says something does not make it gospel. Every person is a fallen sinner. We are all influenced by our upbringing, our life experiences, who we listened to, our own emotions and sinful desires. Not to say the person doesn't have a lot of good things to say, they probably do, but you can't take every word they utter as if they were God. Fill a panel with doctors and scholars, how many arguments over various points do you think there will be? Everyone can't be right.

 

[eclipsenow]

I visited the Ark Encounter in Kentucky USA a few months ago, and they have stuff on dragons and how they were originally just dinosaurs that later had myths attached to them by various cultures.

Here's one article on the Ark Encounter website about it: Hic Sunt Dracones

And here's one from Answers in Genesis: Dragon Legends

Oh my word - I hardly know where to begin. This triggers my Theistic Evolution.
Noah
The Noah story is a specific genre of Hebrew literature called “Mytho-history”.

It's obviously historical mythology. That is, there are real, known events - but the biblical author has 'dressed up' the actual events in theological language. There was a big ancient flood - but what scientifically, literally happened is not the point of the passage. It’s literary instead! There are 4 clues to it being literary rather than literal.

Clue 1: It corrects the theology of earlier pagan stories written centuries before the Hebrews wrote Noah! One is the Epic of Gilgamesh. Gilgamesh flood myth - Wikipedia This podcast analyses how the bible’s concerns are to correct the theology of the flood epic - without being too focussed on the actual scientific details. My friend John Dickson interviews Professor John Walton who is one of the best known Old Testament scholars in the world. He is Professor of Old Testament in the Graduate School at Wheaton College, Illinois. The Flood - Undeceptions

Clue 2: It is one of the earliest and most obvious examples of Chiastic structure in literature.

This is the Hebrew 'hamburger' story - where the most important 'meat' of the story is in the middle - and the events leading into it are mirrored going out of it the other side. The most important part of this story is Noah safe on top of the waters - representing God’s Order over the Disorder. What does this mean about the genre of Noah's flood? It's HIGHLY STYLISED - almost like a parable but with real characters and events in the deep background of the story. For more see Chiastic structure - Wikipedia

Clue 3: The use Ancient Middle-Eastern Cosmology! The floodgates of heaven and the springs of the deep both invoke the WHOLE COSMOLOGY of the Ancient Middle East. This involved domes over heaven, waters over those domes, and floodgates to let the water through. Needless to say - NASA didn’t find those floodgates when they went to the moon! For more on the cosmology see this wiki. Biblical cosmology - Wikipedia But the point is that whatever actually happened in a large but local Middle Eastern flood - the author is interpreting it as an uncreation of the whole world - with the Earth pretty much returned to before Genesis 1. It's a great reset. But with Noah and family on top of the waters!

Conclusion: So what does all this mean?

I personally know an Australian Professor of Old Testament - and he thinks that there was an actual Noah and his family. But what actually happened if we got in a time machine and went back and filmed it might look a bit different to how the bible presents it. It is intentionally dressed up to make a theological point. In a way, focussing too much on what literally happened misses the point of the teaching of the passage! This is where we return to John Walton in the podcast above.

4: Disorder and Order: tracing the meaning of all this.

Consider how across Genesis 1-11 God brings Disorder coming into Order. In the Creation story the world was watery and Disordered, then God divided water and land, sky and water, night and day and brought Order.

Mankind sinned and reintroduced Disorder. God banished them out of Eden. Sin abounds. Eventually human behaviour is so harmful that it again represents growing Disorder - and God chooses a hero Noah to save his special family that he is choosing to develop - and wipes out ‘the world’. But the point is not so much punishment, but the restoration to order. The mid point of the story is Noah sitting safe on the top of the chaos. The flood represents ‘un-creation’ and a return to Disorder - but Noah and his family and animals represents God’s saving Order coming to the world. The message is not just a message of brute force and judgment, nor a trite ditty about how God can save even through natural disasters. This is God was taking specific action to bring about his plans of salvation for the world through Noah’s family all the way down to Jesus. Then Noah's family grows. But soon Disorder creeps in again. Mankind are focused on making a name for themselves and building the tower of Babel. This sounds Orderly but it is their own choice of Order. It’s not God’s Order which was to have them spread out and fill the world, and trust Him for their name and security. This is the Disorder of another revolution - so God brings his Order back by dividing them. This is divine division - just like God dividing day from night or sky from water - coming into creation again to bring his order. God traces the boundaries of things. So we see the Noah story in this context of Genesis 1 to 11 being part of a sequence explaining our origins and the mission of the rest of the bible. It corrects other ancient theologies, is dressed up in Chiastic structure and ancient metaphors, and is a step along the way to God’s Order in Jesus. And I think it is fantastic and richer for it!

 

[eclipsenow]

You have never heard of animals they call Ichthyosaurs, Megalodons, Plesiosaurs etc? Pretty sure you have.

Which one of these had 7 heads? I'm pretty sure you haven't read what the Hebrew word for Leviathan is a cognate of! Look at it this way - just as a passionate and prophetic sermon today might analyse and dissect the cultural metaphors of our day - the bible often appropriates and re-writes other ancient pagan memes. It reinterprets and corrects them! See my Noah post above. Also, Yahweh is the "cloud rider" - not Baal or other Mesopotamian Gods that claim to be the "cloud rider". It's too big to go into now and I've already used my blogging time up on the post above - but the bible OFTEN quotes and refers to and reinterprets other ancient pagan mythologies. Deal with it! Here's the wiki on the other Leviathan cognates and memes.

Lotan
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The Destruction of Leviathan by Gustave Doré (1865)
Lotan (Ugaritic: -ltn, transliterated Lôtān,[1] Litan,[2] or Litānu,[3] meaning "coiled") is a servant of the sea god Yam defeated by the storm god Hadad-Baʿal in the Ugaritic Baal Cycle.[3] possibly with the help or by the hand of his sister ʿAnat.[4] Lotan seems to have been prefigured by the serpent Têmtum represented in Syrian seals of the 18th–16th century BC, [5] and finds a later reflex in the sea monster Leviathan, whose defeat at the hands of Yahweh is alluded to in the biblical Book of Job and in Isaiah 27:1.[5][3] Lambert (2003) went as far as the claim that Isaiah 27:1 is a direct quote lifted from the Ugaritic text, correctly rendering Ugaritic bṯn "snake" as Hebrew nḥš "snake".[6][7]

Lotan (ltn) is an adjectival formation meaning "coiled", here used as a proper name;[4] the same creature has a number of possible epitheta, including "the fugitive serpent" (bṯn brḥ) and maybe (with some uncertainty deriving from manuscript lacunae) "the wriggling serpent" (bṯn ʿqltn) and "the mighty one with seven heads" (šlyṭ d.šbʿt rašm).[5]

The myth of Hadad defeating Lotan, Yahweh defeating Leviathan, Marduk defeating Tiamat (etc.) in the mythologies of the Ancient Near East are classical examples of the Chaoskampf mytheme, also reflected in Zeus' slaying of Typhon in Greek mythology,[8] Thor's struggle against Jörmungandr in the Gylfaginning portion of the Prose Edda,[9] and the vedic battle between Indra and Vritra (from Sanskrit वृत्र, vṛtrá, meaning enveloper, cover and therefore obstacle) who is accused as a dragon of hoarding the waters and the rains, as a dasa of stealing cows, and as an anti-god of hiding the Sun,[10] concentrating on Vritra several demonization processes, the pattern of good versus evil, darkness versus light (hiding the Sun), and comparisons to forces of nature and monsters whose tentacles span the earth.

The Litani River that winds through the Beqaa Valley in Lebanon is named after Lotan as the river was believed to be the personification of the god.[11][12]
Lotan - Wikipedia