Annihilation=No Wrath

[BurningBush84]

If you think that's the case, answer me this -Does Christ mean "death" when he calls the Lake of Fire the second death? And I don't mean a pasted answer that you always paste like this,



A simple answer to a simple question, does Christ mean "death" in this instance? It should be a simple yes or no to this question. You either believe he means "death" or he doesn't.

Jesus said, "let the dead bury the dead".

The dead can't bury anyone because they are dead.

Not a reality, sorry.


Or body and soul destroyed ? After resurrection.

Or each man is resurrected according to God's Word, for eternal life or for judgment .

Not a reality ?? I'm quoting Luke 16, not a Harry Potter book.

 

[Der Alte]

"And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us".

Not a reality, sorry.

Does Jesus use false information to teach His truth?
The story of Lazarus and the rich man is not introduced as a parable or described as a parable afterward. A parable has a specific format something unknown/not understood is explained/described by something that is known/understood e.g. "'X' is like unto 'Y'" where "X" is unknown/not understood "Y" is known/understood.

 

[BurningBush84]

Does Jesus use false information to teach His truth?

If Luke 16 is a lie, then Jesus is a Liar.

 

[Der Alte]

If Luke 16 is a lie, then Jesus is a Liar.

I agree Jesus did NOT lie.

 

[JulieB67]

I gave you a simple answer backed up with scripture. Are you familiar with the concept of quoting "in context"? You are pulling one word out-of-context and trying to make it always mean the same thing in every context.
Can you contradict anything I have previously posted e.g. what you quoted in the previous post.
Revelation 21:4(4) And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.If there is no more death after Rev 21:4 then the groups of people in Rev 21:8 do not die.
Revelation 21:8(8) But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.And in the last chapter, no more salvation, no more death, the groups of people in Rev 22:11 and Rev 22:15 do not die.
Revelation 22:11(11) He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.Revelation 22:15(15) For without [outside the New Jerusalem] are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.This group of people parallels the group in Rev 21:8.

I have replied to you many times in the past. It's all about context. You are clearly posting these verses out of context to what Christ is stating.

You have posted verses but have omitted out the verses which pertain to the very context of what's being said. You lose the context when you do this.

Revelation 21:5 "And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful."

He's stating "I make all things new". He's takes us back to the present moment with John and states write for these words are true. So we know anything after that is said is him reiterating what "will happen" at Judgement Day. When Christ himself states it is done in the next verse we can't just start things again like you are doing with these verses cleary taken out of context. Christ is stating what will happen to those who overcome and those who don't in the verses you have posted. Others have stated this to you in the past but you keep pasting the same replies.

And it's clear with your refusal to answer a simple yes or no means you don't believe Christ means "death" in this instance. That's all you had to state.


Revelation 21:6 "And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely."

I choose to believe Christ in that it is indeed the second "death". That occurs at Judgement Day. He later reiterates what will happen to those who overcome and those who don't. And I see nothing that you've posted will have me believing Christ doesn't mean "death" in this instance.

 

[BurningBush84]

What percentage of Christians believe in ECT ??? And why do they ????

 

[Der Alte]

I have replied to you many times in the past. It's all about context. You are clearly posting these verses out of context to what Christ is stating.
You have posted verses but have omitted out the verses which pertain to the very context of what's being said. You lose the context when you do this.
Revelation 21:5 "And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful."
He's stating it is done. So we know anything after that is said is him reiterating what "will happen" at Judgement Day. When Christ himself states it is done. We can't just start things again like you are doing with these verses cleary taken out of context. Christ is stating what will happen to those who overcome and those who don't. Others have stated this to you in the past but you keep pasting the same replies.
And it's clear with your refusal to answer a simple yes or no means you don't believe Christ means "death" in this instance. That's all you had to state.
Revelation 21:6 "And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely."

You accuse me of quoting out-of-context. Then you quote Rev 21:6 and ignore the "context" you have claimed.

"Revelation 21:6 "And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely."​

Can you not see the contradiction?

 

[Aaron112]

What percentage of Christians believe in ECT ??? And why do they ????

Around 83.7% +/- fudge factors....

Because they are taught that.

 

[Der Alte]

What percentage of Christians believe in ECT ??? And why do they ????

Don't know the percentage but believe it because it is Biblical. Matthew 25:46.

Dialogue of Justin, Philosopher and Martyr, with Trypho, a Jew. Chap. IV.
“‘Then these reap no advantage from their punishment, as it seems: moreover, I would say that they are not punished unless they are conscious of the punishment."​

 

[BurningBush84]

Don't know the percentage but believe it because it is Biblical. Matthew 25:46.

Dialogue of Justin, Philosopher and Martyr, with Trypho, a Jew. Chap. IV. ​

“‘Then these reap no advantage from their punishment, as it seems: moreover, I would say that they are not punished unless they are conscious of the punishment."​

Exactly... Was Joseph Smith smarter than all the rest ? Was Charles Taze Russell smarter than all the rest before him ???

Annihilation is a doctrine of Satan . Because if annihilation were true, then Hitler got the best of God . Hitler escaped justice . Hitler won.

 

[JulieB67]

Can you not see the contradiction?

I see no contradictions and don't see a simple yes or no to the question I asked. I took the entire verses of Revelation in context. After Judgement Day Christ claims "I make all things new and in the next verse it is done. As I said he brings us back to the present moment with John. For some reason you can't see that.

He then goes on to say what will happen to those who overcome and those who don't. So taking all that into context we see that definitely the second death is just that -the death of the soul. Which is a witness to his earlier teaching on that's what we need to fear.

 

[Der Alte]

I see no contradictions and don't see a simple yes or no to the question I asked. I took the entire verses of Revelation in context. After Judgement Day Christ claims "I make all things new and in the next verse it is done. As I said he brings us back to the present moment with John. For some reason you can't see that.
He then goes on to say what will happen to those who overcome and those who don't. So taking all that into context we see that definitely the second death is just that -the death of the soul. Which is a witness to his earlier teaching on that's what we need to fear.

In your haste to inform me of your "superior" knowledge you failed to consider the end of the book.
The last book, last chapter no more death, no more salvation

Revelation 22:10-11
(10) And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
(11) He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.​

Still unjust, still filthy not dead.

Revelation 22:15
(15) For without [outside the New Jerusalem] are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.​

Still dogs, sorcerers, whoremongers, murderers, idolaters and liars not dead. Six more verses the end.

 

[Aaron112]

Which is a witness to his earlier teaching on that's what we need to fear.

If I remember, you mean we are to fear God who is able to kill /destroy/ both the body and the soul , right ?
We , as believers abiding in Jesus, in union with Jesus,
do not fear death nor punishment .

 

[JulieB67]

In your haste to inform me of your "superior" knowledge you failed to consider the end of the book.
The last book, last chapter no more death, no more salvation
Revelation 22:10-11
(10) And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
(11) He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.Still unjust, still filthy not dead.
Revelation 22:15
(15) For without [outside the New Jerusalem] are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.Still dogs, sorcerers, whoremongers, murderers, idolaters and liars not dead. Six more verses the end.

I do indeed consider the end of the book. This is as I said Christ is talking in the present tense.

Revelation 22:14 "Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city."

It specifically states, "Blessed are they "that do" his commandments, they they "may" have the right to the tree of life and "may" enter in..." Meaning it hasn't happened yet. We know this happens on Judgement Day.

Revelation 22:15 "For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie."

Again, he's telling us who will enter in and who won't. That will be decided at Judgement Day.

 

[Aaron112]

I do indeed consider the end of the book. This is as I said Christ is talking in the present tense.

Revelation 22:14 "Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city."

The right to the tree of life !!!!!!!!!!!

YEAH ! ! ! ! !

 

[JulieB67]

f I remember, you mean we are to fear God who is able to kill /destroy/ both the body and the soul , right ?

That's my point to his earlier teaching. That's what we need to fear, yes, God that can destroy both body and soul in hell. I probably worded that wrong. But it points to the death of the soul and not the death of our flesh body which is what we shouldn't fear.

 

[Aaron112]

It specifically states, "Blessed are they "that do" his commandments, they they "may" have the right to the tree of life and "may" enter in..." Meaning it hasn't happened yet. We know this happens on Judgement Day.

Yes,
and/or also while may have the right to the tree of life,
that right might be happening sooner
if God makes it so ,

as in someone "may have" the right to go and eat at a free meal,
but they might have to dress right first, or
go in through the front door/ the gate/ that is set up for that, with the hosts permission ..

 

[Aaron112]

I probably worded that wrong.

Nah, it's all wording out perfectly .... In this case the open discussion helps light up the whole area and meanings and development of the purpose of God.

 

[Dan Perez]

"..... but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord." Romans 12:19

"........their day of disaster is near and their doom rushes upon them". Deuteronomy 32:35

Annihilation seems very peaceful, the total opposite of experiencing wrath. Annihilation is basically resting in eternal peace, a peaceful soothing eternal sleep. Annihilation means the wicked unbelievers wont have to endure any punishment in the afterlife. Annihilation seems like more of a blessing than a curse. Annihilation seems more like Gods grace rather than his wrath. If your trying to convince people that Gods wrath is peaceful eternal sleep, then Gods wrath is a gracious peaceful reward for the wicked. Absolutely no eternal consequences for the wicked unbeliever. Eternal sleep is a gift, not a consequence, not a punishment. No reason to fear Gods wrath. If you don't go to Heaven it wont matter because you wont know what your missing, you wont feel regret, remorse or pain, you wont feel anything. Is that what the Bible really teaches ??

Is there a Greek word for ANIHILATION ?

And what does Luke 16:23 , 24 , 26 , and in Rev 20:10 is to me VERY PLAIN , what are your thoughts ?

dan p

 

[BurningBush84]

Is there a Greek word for ANIHILATION ?

And what does Luke 16:23 , 24 , 26 , and in Rev 20:10 is to me VERY PLAIN , what are your thoughts ?

dan p

I don't know if there is a Greek word for annihilation. All I know is annihilation is not the exact same thing as destruction.

Those versus are so plain and simple even a 3rd grader can understand. The same with Revelation 14:11.