I am new here and had no idea where to put this thread. I looked in the debate/discussion section but everything was confusing me so imma just put this here. Moderators feel free to move it where it should be.
This thread is a result of the Baptist Portuguese commenting on this belief of mine in this thread:
http://www.christianforums.com/threads/a-few-first-time-dating-questions.7931350/
OK so a bit of background:
I was raised in the church of Christ which, as you probably know, it a very legalistic conservative denomination. I was always taught and I always believed in an eternal hell. I saw the contrast between heaven and hell as eternal paradise vs eternal torture. It's funny how when you are taught a specific doctrine since you are small, you don't even question or really look at the verses about it. You don't even think about it. I believed this until I was about 14½. Then we had a Skype call with my uncle in America and he said something along the lines of "my view of hell has changed completely from what I was always taught." And he didn't say much more. So at this point I was thinking "wWhat could he mean? I thought everyone believes in hell the same?"but I didn't really ask more.
My investigation:
So I decided to read a few verses on hell. I found this resource on Google: https://www.openbible.info/topics/hell
And I just started reading. I found it interesting that most of the verses said death vs eternal life rather than what I always believed which was eternal paradise vs eternal torture. It's not quite the same thing.
Note: I have excluded most references from Revelations. I love the book of Revelations but I think we can all agree that there is a lot of imagery and infinite interpretations of this imagery. So I will just be sticking to the other 65 books.
For example:
John 3:16-18 ESV
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
Romans 6:23 ESV
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Matthew 7:13 ESV
Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many.
Clearly the consequence of sin appears to be death. Destruction. Perishing. Something which is very hard to interpret as eternal. This strongly goes against the normal explanation of "Everyone has eternal life because the soul is by nature eternal. The only difference is where you decide to spend that eternal life"
But that's not too say that there are no verses implying an eternal suffering. There are some which seen to indicate this as well.
For example:
Matthew 25:46 ESV
And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
2 Thessalonians 1:9 ESV
They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might
Matthew 18:8 ESV
And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life crippled or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire.
However, I noted something interesting about these. They only refer to an eternal punishment, eternal fire, or eternal destruction. I can find no reference suggesting an eternal torture. There are so many different verses implying a destruction, a death, calling hell the second death, a furnace, a consuming fire(note the use of consuming), a worm, etc... These all imply a consummation. It would be difficult to interpret these as eternal. I mean, you will be thrown in a fire and will burn without ever being burned up? You will be eaten by a worm but through some strange way this worm will never finish eating you? I mean, this worn has a literally infinite amount of time to eat you but somehow you will regenerate or something as he eats you and as such will never actually die? You will be in a state of dying without ever achieving ultimate death? How does that make sense? You can die without dying? It's illogical.
If indeed everyone possesses a soul, and if, as most claim, a soul is by nature eternal, how could this verse be explained?
1 John 3:15—"Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."
But... I thought everyone has an eternal soul abiding in them right? Do murderers not have souls? Are they not born with souls, or are their souls destroyed when they commit murder? Do murderers not suffer eternal hell but all other sinners do? That makes no sense. As I said, I find it extremely difficult to justify eternal hell with verses like these. Even those with the best verbal judo stumble when shown these verses. Take a look at this next one:
2 Peter 2:6by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes he condemned them to extinction, making them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;
They were turned to ashes. It didn't say they were thrown into an eternal fire. I mean, are they burning today? No. Of course not. They were burned up. Consumed. And according to this verse, this is exactly what will happen to the ungodly in hell. They will be turned to ashes. Was being turned into ashes painful for Sodom and Gomorra? Absolutely. They were undoubtedly in severe pain, and clearly their destruction was not instantaneous(remember that Lot's wife looked back while they were being destroyed and got turned into a lovely salt statue.) They were consumed over time. But it was not eternal. They were turned into ash.
Here are some more studies on the topic:
http://www.jeremyandchristine.com/articles/eternal.php
http://www.bibleinfo.com/en/questions/how-long-does-hell-burn
http://www.remnantofgod.org/hellfire.htm
I was not indoctrinated or convinced to believe this. I came to this by my own study. Hopefully I have opened the eyes of some others through this post. I know that many will refuse to believe this and that is fine. I will happily agree to disagree.
This thread is a result of the Baptist Portuguese commenting on this belief of mine in this thread:
http://www.christianforums.com/threads/a-few-first-time-dating-questions.7931350/
OK so a bit of background:
I was raised in the church of Christ which, as you probably know, it a very legalistic conservative denomination. I was always taught and I always believed in an eternal hell. I saw the contrast between heaven and hell as eternal paradise vs eternal torture. It's funny how when you are taught a specific doctrine since you are small, you don't even question or really look at the verses about it. You don't even think about it. I believed this until I was about 14½. Then we had a Skype call with my uncle in America and he said something along the lines of "my view of hell has changed completely from what I was always taught." And he didn't say much more. So at this point I was thinking "wWhat could he mean? I thought everyone believes in hell the same?"but I didn't really ask more.
My investigation:
So I decided to read a few verses on hell. I found this resource on Google: https://www.openbible.info/topics/hell
And I just started reading. I found it interesting that most of the verses said death vs eternal life rather than what I always believed which was eternal paradise vs eternal torture. It's not quite the same thing.
Note: I have excluded most references from Revelations. I love the book of Revelations but I think we can all agree that there is a lot of imagery and infinite interpretations of this imagery. So I will just be sticking to the other 65 books.
For example:
John 3:16-18 ESV
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
Romans 6:23 ESV
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Matthew 7:13 ESV
Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many.
Clearly the consequence of sin appears to be death. Destruction. Perishing. Something which is very hard to interpret as eternal. This strongly goes against the normal explanation of "Everyone has eternal life because the soul is by nature eternal. The only difference is where you decide to spend that eternal life"
But that's not too say that there are no verses implying an eternal suffering. There are some which seen to indicate this as well.
For example:
Matthew 25:46 ESV
And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
2 Thessalonians 1:9 ESV
They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might
Matthew 18:8 ESV
And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life crippled or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire.
However, I noted something interesting about these. They only refer to an eternal punishment, eternal fire, or eternal destruction. I can find no reference suggesting an eternal torture. There are so many different verses implying a destruction, a death, calling hell the second death, a furnace, a consuming fire(note the use of consuming), a worm, etc... These all imply a consummation. It would be difficult to interpret these as eternal. I mean, you will be thrown in a fire and will burn without ever being burned up? You will be eaten by a worm but through some strange way this worm will never finish eating you? I mean, this worn has a literally infinite amount of time to eat you but somehow you will regenerate or something as he eats you and as such will never actually die? You will be in a state of dying without ever achieving ultimate death? How does that make sense? You can die without dying? It's illogical.
If indeed everyone possesses a soul, and if, as most claim, a soul is by nature eternal, how could this verse be explained?
1 John 3:15—"Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."
But... I thought everyone has an eternal soul abiding in them right? Do murderers not have souls? Are they not born with souls, or are their souls destroyed when they commit murder? Do murderers not suffer eternal hell but all other sinners do? That makes no sense. As I said, I find it extremely difficult to justify eternal hell with verses like these. Even those with the best verbal judo stumble when shown these verses. Take a look at this next one:
2 Peter 2:6by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes he condemned them to extinction, making them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;
They were turned to ashes. It didn't say they were thrown into an eternal fire. I mean, are they burning today? No. Of course not. They were burned up. Consumed. And according to this verse, this is exactly what will happen to the ungodly in hell. They will be turned to ashes. Was being turned into ashes painful for Sodom and Gomorra? Absolutely. They were undoubtedly in severe pain, and clearly their destruction was not instantaneous(remember that Lot's wife looked back while they were being destroyed and got turned into a lovely salt statue.) They were consumed over time. But it was not eternal. They were turned into ash.
Here are some more studies on the topic:
http://www.jeremyandchristine.com/articles/eternal.php
http://www.bibleinfo.com/en/questions/how-long-does-hell-burn
http://www.remnantofgod.org/hellfire.htm
I was not indoctrinated or convinced to believe this. I came to this by my own study. Hopefully I have opened the eyes of some others through this post. I know that many will refuse to believe this and that is fine. I will happily agree to disagree.