Amish Survived COVID Better Than Most by Never Locking Down, Shuttering Churches

[RDKirk]

It may well be true the the Amish were the first population to get herd immunity from Covid, but that's the point.

The general population did one thing (fear, distance, masking, different new drugs); the Amish (and about 30% of the rest of the population - but many without the healthy habits of the Amish) did the opposite.

The Amish were done 2 years earlier than everyone else with immunity.

It may be that they were the "first population," but may also be one of the few types of populations that can achieve herd immunity because of their basic lifestyle and disassociation from other groups.

And, as I frequently say, there is always more than one thing happening.

Not to be diminished, the Amish lifestyle may largely prevent a number of comorbidities that the general population suffers from. How prevalent among the Amish are obesity, diabetes, and other issues of chronic cardiovascular inflammation known to make covid death more likely?

 

[Aaron112]

may also be one of the few types of populations that can achieve herd immunity because of their basic lifestyle and disassociation from other groups.

Yes. A lifestyle free from the vectors of both sin and of disease that others have not the benefit of?

 

[seeking.IAM]

I can't reconcile claims here with experience in my state. Our hardest hit county with COVID during the height of the pandemic has an extremely high Amish population.

 

[RDKirk]

I can't reconcile claims here with experience in my state. Our hardest hit county with COVID during the height of the pandemic has an extremely high Amish population.

That's not necessarily a repudiation of the herd immunity claims. Developing herd immunity requires substantial contraction of the disease in the group.

The question is whether the group can withstand (physically and morally) the impact of fatalities and long-term disabilities (the collateral damage) it takes to achieve herd immunity.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

It may be that they were the "first population," but may also be one of the few types of populations that can achieve herd immunity because of their basic lifestyle and disassociation from other groups.

And, as I frequently say, there is always more than one thing happening.

Not to be diminished, the Amish lifestyle may largely prevent a number of comorbidities that the general population suffers from. How prevalent among the Amish are obesity, diabetes, and other issues of chronic cardiovascular inflammation known to make covid death more likely?

We agree that their outdoors, hardworking lifestyle and real food diet is a significant benefit, health-wise, and we would all do well to incorporate that function of the Amish lifestyle into our lives.

What the Amish also avoid is the mass medication vast quantities of Americans now take for all sorts of conditions - which is very lucrative for Pharma and not very healthy for the recipient. Obviously, some drugs are unavoidable, like insulin, if you need it, and the occasional antibiotic. But a drug-based lifestyle, which is what a large portion of the regular (not Amish) country is doing is counterproductive to health.

 

[Aaron112]

Developing herd immunity requires substantial contraction of the disease in the group.

Not always, not by a long shot (sorrowful pun realized after posting) .

 

[RDKirk]

Not always, not by a long shot (sorrowful pun realized after posting) .

Always. It doesn't mean all of them will get sick, but the majority of them must contract the disease.

 

[Aaron112]

"The immune system has two parts. There's the immune function that you're born with, called the innate immune system. "

 

[RDKirk]

"The immune system has two parts. There's the immune function that you're born with, called the innate immune system. "

Which is not effective against diseases like covid. That's why everyone normally has an adaptive immune system, which is effective against covid. If you've ever had any kind of coronavirus disease disease--such as the common cold--then you know your innate immune system doesn't handle covid.

 

[Aaron112]

But when it suits the agenda of moving some product by the billions of dollars, suddenly it is a "pandemic of the unvaccinated" and "the unvaccinated are filling the hospitals!!!"

As in 'money rules' ?

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Always. It doesn't mean all of them will get sick, but the majority of them must contract the disease.

Virtually everyone DID get exposed; that is all that is necessary. Some didn't get sick at all. Others did.

 

[RDKirk]

Virtually everyone DID get exposed; that is all that is necessary. Some didn't get sick at all. Others did.

I guess you're making a distinction between "get exposed" and "contract the disease."

"Contract the disease" includes when the virus or bacteria enters the body systems, and the body takes action to suppress it. If the body is quick enough and successful, the person may never feel "sick." That's what generally happens when a person is vaccinated.

Immunity to a coronavirus does not come without the immune system having been exposed to it. Herd immunity does not come without enough people in the community having been exposed and subsequently gained immunity so that the virus can't gain enough foothold for the non-immune to have an opportunity to be exposed to it.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

I guess you're making a distinction between "get exposed" and "contract the disease."

"Contract the disease" includes when the virus or bacteria enters the body systems, and the body takes action to suppress it. If the body is quick enough and successful, the person may never feel "sick." That's what generally happens when a person is vaccinated.

Immunity to a coronavirus does not come without the immune system having been exposed to it. Herd immunity does not come without enough people in the community having been exposed and subsequently gained immunity so that the virus can't gain enough foothold for the non-immune to have an opportunity to be exposed to it.

There is really no distinction. If you got exposed, you made antibodies to the virus and will be immune. If you had enough exposure, you either had some symptoms or your antibodies fought it off (yay, you, in this latter case). Either way, you have long term, durable immunity.

The way antibodies work is not the nonsense they were telling everyone early on, that you had to keep your antibodies measureable at all times so keep getting shots. Actually, your antibodies won't measure until you need them; they become undetectable but are still there. Then they will come flooding back and fight off the intruder as they trained to do, after mustered by T-cells and B- cells and all that, if another exposure happens, and likely you won't even know.

I had to be titered when an older family member had chicken pox and needed care. I had never had it- but older sibs did back in the day. Decades later, because I was already caring for the person, I was titered, showed antibodies, and never got ill. That's how it is supposed to work.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

There is really no distinction. If you got exposed, you made antibodies to the virus and will be immune. If you had enough exposure, you either had some symptoms or your antibodies fought it off (yay, you, in this latter case). Either way, you have long term, durable immunity.

The way antibodies work is not the nonsense they were telling everyone early on, that you had to keep your antibodies measureable at all times so keep getting shots. Actually, your antibodies won't measure until you need them; they become undetectable but are still there. Then they will come flooding back and fight off the intruder as they trained to do, after mustered by T-cells and B- cells and all that, if another exposure happens, and likely you won't even know.

I had to be titered when an older family member had chicken pox and needed care. I had never had it- but older sibs did back in the day. Decades later, because I was already caring for the person, I was titered, showed antibodies, and never got ill. That's how it is supposed to work.

Nature Science Journal shows this pretty well: I can't seem to repost diagram here but it shows long and durable T-cell action along with this blurb about Sars V 2: Memory T cell responses are maintained within the first 12 months following clearance of infection by CD4+ T cell populations and CD8+ T cell populations, which comprise ~0.5% and ~0.2% of the repertoire and target at least 19 epitopes and 17 epitopes, respectively. t1/2, half-life.

About mid-page: The T cell immune response against SARS-CoV-2 - Nature Immunology