Is modern secular society headed down the path to Sodom and Gomorrah.

Zaha Torte said:

I have no respect for the machinations of Satan.

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I have no interest in your satan.

Zaha Torte said:

Members of this cult are victims of his delusions.

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I see no cult here.

Zaha Torte said:

I think your response was a logical fallacy.

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Feel free to find mine:

Thou shalt not commit logical fallacies

stevevw said:

I am interested in this as I was speaking to some friends the other day about how especially in the media, Hollywood, Music and entertainment there seems to be this pagan or even Satanic ritualistism going on. Things like wearing these head dresses with goat horns and other pagan symbols. Its alwats very provocative and sexual as well. Almost a celebration of our animalistic side.

I think I know what is happening. Just loike in the days when people defied God they turned to nature, to animals and nature itself like Stone idols. Now that modern society is rejecting God this same belief is coming back. It may seem natural for people to worship nature as god. But primarily when this happens its not really about gods in nature but the self as god.

Also in those times people were made gods when theres no transcendent God. As self is god desires and feelings and self experience becomes the god. Therefore pleasure and all the good feelings are moral and the aweful feeling ones are sin.

So are we seeing a repeat of the down fall of society like Sodom and Gormorrah or like with how Empires have fallen where sexxual immorality and pleasure and where the created is worshipped and not the Creator.

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Bible prophecy actually describes the world as being like Sodom and Gamora, when Jesus Christ returns to judge the world. The warning was that, God would turn the world over to do those things which are against nature. So from the Biblical point of view, the reason so many have embraced the way of Sodom and Gamora, is because they turned their back to God and God gave them over to serve their lust.

Most of my gay and lesbian friends, say that their lives are difficult, because many of their family and friends don't accept them. They say that they didn't have a choice in their sexuality, that seems to line up with the biblical view of God giving people over to do those things that are inconvenient. It sounds like, they wouldn't choose to be gay or lesbian if they had a choice.

There are two prevailing worldviews, one is a progressive science based view and the other is a conservative view based on faith in God. These are diametrically opposed and irreconcilable worldviews. I have witnessed many debates, with highly educated people from both sides putting their case forward but they never ever reach any consensus or agreement. They just dig in deeper and refuse to give an inch.

At the end of the day, every individual will make choices according to what best reflects their nature. I don't believe it's possible to reprogram a person, to make them change who they are. We can share our views and opinions with everyone but it won't change them.

stevevw said:

Actually we do know what Gods order is. If God is the Creator then God is truth, reality, objective reality as well as the God of humans and how they were created in His image male and female. Just as the laws of nature and physics are created by God. So we can know God through science and understanding nature and reality and how it works including evolution.

So there are certain laws, patterns and an order to nature that should not be defied. Just like defying gravity and you will fall. We defy this nature and order to our peril ass we have seen in how we have abused the planet and now we are approaching a threshold where reality will come back to bite us.

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Well then, reality has been very slow at getting around to it. Trans people have been with us as long as people have been around and have been dealt with in various ways by various societies over time. Now you come along not knowing anything more about trans except what right-wing polemicists tell you and with an ancient religious text which doesn't talk about trans at all and want us to believe that unless we follow your advice, Western civilization is doomed. Right.

stevevw said:

I think you are right in that theree are two main dynamically opposed worldviews. In that sense I think its a spiritual battle, an ideological and philosophical and even an ontological battle for reality itself.

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There are more than two. Alas, yours isn't one of the main ones any more.

stevevw said:

But primarily a spiritual battle and we see this in how theres a growing antagonism and resentment between people that they are willing to destroy opposing views to the point of violence and even death.

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You think that's a new thing?

dzheremi said:

First of all, you're a Mormon, not a Christian.

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I am a Latter-day Saint - a Restorationist Christian - and I would argue that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints qualifies as a Christian Church by any reasonable definition of the term.

It may be the most misrepresented Christian Church - but still Christian.

dzheremi said:

You may not like that this website does not extend the label of Christian to your religion, but that is the way that it is.

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dzheremi said:

I'm telling you this not to rub it in or anything, but because you can actually get in trouble with moderators if you insist that Mormonism is a kind of Christianity or that Mormons are Christians, so you might want to stop posting this sort of thing.

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I was unaware of this rule, and I am grateful to you for sharing it.

With only a cursory glance at the claims made and the evidence for them in the links this rule provided I have already seen a few misrepresentations of LDS doctrine.

Hopefully I can clear up any and all confusion.

dzheremi said:

The what? Is this a new acronym for a segment of the population that already has a much more widely-known acronym applied to it? I've never heard of that.

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I am mocking the false ideology by applying my own acronym.

dzheremi said:

I agree with the other poster who wrote that it sounds like you're talking about a TV. Very strange.

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Then you also have no sense of humor, or you are acting as though you are obtuse.

dzheremi said:

Alright. I can't think of a better reason to not be a part of it, then. What does that have to do with my post, though?

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You were wondering why some people are so focused on this issue.

One of the reasons why is because they love their neighbors and don't want them to suffer or be destroyed by this ideology.

Another is the fact that it is simply not true, and they fight to defend the truth.

dzheremi said:

You're apparently ashamed enough of it to continue instead in a 19th century anti-Christian cult that explicitly denies the truth of God, so consider me unmoved.

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You are not informed on the topic of my faith, so I do not consider your opinion about it to be valuable.

Zaha Torte said:

I am mocking the false ideology by applying my own acronym.

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When you mock LGBT people it smacks of bigotry. Just to let you know. There is enough of that here already.

Zaha Torte said:

Then you also have no sense of humor, or you are acting as though you are obtuse.

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It wasn't funny. Mocking people with little power (punching down) is not generally funny.

dzheremi said:

You're apparently ashamed enough of it to continue instead in a 19th century anti-Christian cult that explicitly denies the truth of God, so consider me unmoved.

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A better term might be "pseudo-Christian" (false Christianity). They certainly *think* they are Christians with a different view of Jesus even if you, this site, and many trinitarians disagree.

Hans Blaster said:

I have no interest in your satan.

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That's just the way he likes it.

Hans Blaster said:

I see no cult here.

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Uninstall your blinders.

Hans Blaster said:

Feel free to find mine:

Thou shalt not commit logical fallacies

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Red herring.

Zaha Torte said:

That's just the way he likes it.

Uninstall your blinders.

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I don't believe in your satan, why should I care about it. It literally means nothing to me. (I also don't care about your god, either.)

Zaha Torte said:

Red herring.

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You claimed I was committing a logical fallacy. I gave you a link to a list and *invited* you to ID mine. (I'm that confident that your accusation is incorrect.)

Hans Blaster said:

When you mock LGBT people it smacks of bigotry. Just to let you know. There is enough of that here already.

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I don't recall mocking any person. I clearly stated that I was mocking an ideology.

And by the way - the logical fallacy you just used is called a Strawman and you can find it on that site you shared with me earlier.

Hans Blaster said:

It wasn't funny. Mocking people with little power (punching down) is not generally funny.

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I was not mocking any person or people. Strawman.

I do think that you consider members of the LGHDTV cult to have "little power" to be funny though.

When all corporate America, academia, media and the Federal Government promote your causes - even by use of force - you are the machine.

Hans Blaster said:

I don't believe in your satan, why should I care about it. It literally means nothing to me. (I also don't care about your god, either.)

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We are currently posting in a thread about modern society and its comparison to Sodom and Gomorrah.

You don't have to believe in anything - but my beliefs are more relevant here than yours.

Hans Blaster said:

You claimed I was committing a logical fallacy. I gave you a link to a list and *invited* you to ID mine. (I'm that confident that your accusation is incorrect.)

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The logical fallacy you committed was a red herring.

Zaha Torte said:

I don't recall mocking any person. I clearly stated that I was mocking an ideology.

And by the way - the logical fallacy you just used is called a Strawman and you can find it on that site you shared with me earlier.

I was not mocking any person or people. Strawman.

I do think that you consider members of the LGHDTV cult to have "little power" to be funny though.

When all corporate America, academia, media and the Federal Government promote your causes - even by use of force - you are the machine.

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You call it an "ideology" and mock it, but you are mocking people even if you don't think you are. They do not chose to be as they are.

Zaha Torte said:

The logical fallacy you committed was a red herring.

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How so?

Hans Blaster said:

You call it an "ideology" and mock it, but you are mocking people even if you don't think you are.

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I cannot possibly agree with that because it is not true.

You can comment on an ideology without commenting on the people who happen to believe in said ideology.

Hans Blaster said:

They do not chose to be as they are.

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You have evidence that supports this conclusion?

Hans Blaster said:

How so?

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You claimed that my argument could not be taken seriously because of how I chose to refer to the LGHDTV cult.

Zaha Torte said:

You claimed that my argument could not be taken seriously because of how I chose to refer to the LGHDTV cult.

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Would you have preferred I just had said I wasn't interested in your bigotry and mocking attitude and that I find you to be an unserious person? I thought you might be someone worth talking to, but you seem intent on proving me wrong about that.

Hans Blaster said:

A better term might be "pseudo-Christian" (false Christianity). They certainly *think* they are Christians with a different view of Jesus even if you, this site, and many trinitarians disagree.

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They can call themselves whatever they want. The standard of belief remains as it is, and they very purposely reject it in favor of something else, so they are (as all heretics are) self-condemned. I realize that means nothing to you as an atheist, but when talking about the basics of Christian belief, it's really easy to tell what they are and to measure whatever else is out there claiming to be Christian against them. We wrote a whole creed about it and everything, and it has stood for 1,600+ years and counting. (And the likes of Joseph 'Magic Rock in a Hat' Smith is certainly not a serious threat to that.)