I'm not sure I follow that at all.
Most people find that their gender traits match their biology satisfactorily. I think you agree with that? Then you seem to be saying that if they find out that gender traits and biology aren't necessarily linked they will be forced to do something they don't want to. What is it? I am largely content with how my gender traits and my biology line up. Still, I don't think that gender traits and biology are linked and it doesn't make me unhappy or force me to do anything I don't like.
Its not that those who may find that their gender and biological reality don't match as these people will be open to change and not need to be forced for obvious reasons ( they don't believe their gender is linked to their biology).
Its the majority of people who believe their gender and biological reality are linked and don't believe gender identity should trump biological reality who are the ones who will be forced to go along.
You don't believe gender and biology is linked well thats a minority view and in contradiction to reality and the science. You are content that your gender and biology line up. But what if someone demanded that you conform to an idea that your gender and biology don't line up. Force you to conform with something unreal that doesn't conform to your physical reality.
The issue is definitely real, but the talking points are not. Anyway, you need not repeat them every time you answer a question about trans. The just clog up the page and we've all seen them before.
OK thats fair enough but then when you make a claim that gender identity is "definitely real" like its a matter of fact you cannot expect people to just accept that and go along. That is more or less making an unsupported claim and then telling everyone to shut up and not express their opinions and disagreement or question this.
More imaginary talking points. Stop already. That kind of crap is pouring out of right-wing media around here all the time. It's boring.
Their not imaginary talking points but facts, reality. I can show you the factual evidence if you want. This needs to be discussed and not cancelled out. If you want to make claims without any evidence and then ask others to go along you have to be willing to back up your claims and not tell people to shut up. That doesn't achieve anything but to shut down important conversations that others need to also express just like you want to express.
Do you believe that the man's effeminacy is authentic, or do you think he's just pretending for some reason?
Both sexes have a degree of the opposite sex expression especially when young. But this does not make them the opposite sex but rather within the normal range of gender and sex. That is the problem with gender ideology it assumes any deviation from congruent gender behaviour must indicate Trans or some gender incongruency that signifies a gender spectrum which seems to have no end as to different genders.
But there is also evidence that people can have problems with gender incongruence because of emotional or psychological issues where they reject their bodies and therefore this can influence their gender expression. Once they recieve therapy they align back to their nate sex and gender.
Many gays who express more feminine behaviour have been misdiagnosed as Trans but once they have overcome their psychological problems they may still display feminine expression but still identify as male gender. They are just a male with more feminine expression rather than being the opposite sex.
Do you think it is a mental illness?
This is still an ongoing research. We certainly know that the majority of people who suffer gender incongruence have some psychological issues and once addressed seem to realign gender with sex.
But there is also the question of the biological and neurological aspects. Many people who suffer gender incongruuence have been found to have problems with the expression of sex hormones which don't align their physical develop to their sexed brain ie too much or little of testosterone like for females such as
congenital adrenal hyperplasia (CAH).
Sexual Differentiation of the Human Brain in Relation to Gender-Identity, Sexual Orientation, and Neuropsychiatric Disorder
During the intrauterine period, a testosterone surge in boys masculinizes the fetal brain, whereas the absence of such a surge in girls results in a feminine brain. Since sexual differentiation of the genitals takes place much earlier in intrauterine life than sexual differentiation of the human brain, these two processes can be influenced independently of each other. Gender identity (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender), sexual orientation (hetero-, homo-, or bisexuality), pedophilia, and the risks for neuropsychiatric disorders are programmed into our brain during early development.
https://link.springer.com/referenceworkentry/10.1007/978-1-4614-1997-6_115
On average, male embryos are exposed to higher concentrations of testosterone than female embryos, but these concentrations vary around a mean value for various reasons (environmental, genetic, etc.). Male subjects at the lower end of this sex-specific distribution could thus acquire a female-typical orientation (and be gay).
Minireview: Hormones and Human Sexual Orientation
Gender-role behaviour and gender identity in girls with classical congenital adrenal hyperplasia
Introduction Girls with classical congenital adrenal hyperplasia (CAH) are exposed to excess fetal adrenal androgens in-utero, and often born with masculinised genitalia. They are conventionally reared as females, but show more “boyish” gender-role behaviour (GRB) and gender-identity (GI) issues...
bmcpediatr.biomedcentral.com
Prenatal endocrine influences on sexual orientation and on sexually differentiated childhood behavior (2011)
The overwhelming conclusion from these studies is that women with CAH are less likely to be exclusively or almost exclusively heterosexual than are other women.
Prenatal endocrine influences on sexual orientation and on sexually differentiated childhood behavior
Do you think he should be required to suppress his effeminacy in public to avoid giving offence to others?
No of course not. If the person truely believes and feels that and as mentioned above this can have a biological basis then its more or less programmed into them.
That is why I asked if you support interventions that may align the sexed brain with the physical genitals as this may aleviate and avoid these problems. A person ending up with a different sexed brain that is orientated to the opposite of their physical bodies is not normal development just like when say other brain chemical imbalances such as the propensity to be depressive or over active such as ADHD.
Pretending that at least for some its a medical issue rather than a normal human development or a normal third or fouth sex of gender is not really helpful as it denies possible treatments that may align their sex and gender which I would say ultimately would be the best outcome for all.
But in the meantime for others who feel this way I think its important to offer therapy first rather than automatic Affirmation considering the majority also have many psychological and other problems. But certainly we need to accommodate and support these people in society but so long as it doesn't infringe on other peoples rights.
I think by acknowledging that this is also a medical issue we can understand and accommodate better like we do for other issues that need special accommodations. But I think seperate accommodations rather than forcing those accommodations on the majority of people. Like seperate change rooms rather than forcing women to share their private spaces with what may be a male with full male genitalia or the possibility of a male who may prey on women and exploit them.
I answered your question. "If it was a treatment for actual gender dysphoria, then OK, but if it merely was intended to prevent gender nonconformity then it shouldn't be necessary."
Fair enough. But what if we found some way to realign brain sex with the phsyical body which technically should align most people would this be seen as preventing gender non conformity. Some say it does as though humans were meant to exist with conflicting genders and sex.
I don't think generally gender non conformity feeling like your in the wrong body is a healthy state regardless of peoples views on gender non conformity. No matter how you look at it a person will always feel in conflict that they phsyical bodies don't match their sexed brains. It would be a discomforting issue.
I knw many young people naturally have difficulties with accepting their bodies even if they are gender conforming and some people have other types of body dysmorphia such as rejecting their shape and size and its a major issue for adolescents generally.
So I think we should be doing everything to help these people feel comfortable in their own bodies because ultimately that is the best outcome. That is what nature intended I think. I don't think we are meant to be in conflict with our own bodies as its a physical reality and it does have an important purpose in many ways.
