oikonomia
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I hear you saying MAYBE . . . (we (?) are not sure about this translation) (The RcV uses the Nestle Greek text)I liked your post. But we were not sure about this translation.
So you don't come right out and say its a wrong translation. But you and (some others of the "we") have some
doubts about the English translation. I guess I should assume "we" means fellow trained translators of koine Greek to English.
Is there definitely another way you would translate it to be more representative of the verse?
Should I assume your alternative translation will show that the God of peace actually will NOT sanctify us wholly?
If you looked into the Greek first notice that the construction of the sentence is similar to that of Matthew 28:19b.You are really sold on it I see. I look at the Greek more often than not so this translation of 5:23 troubled me a bit so I looked at it as the TR shares and decided I liked it lol.
baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
βαπτίζοντες αὐτοὺς εἰς τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ Πατρὸς καὶ τοῦ Υἱοῦ καὶ τοῦ ῾Αγίου Πνεύματος,
The conjunction "and" joining the three distinct names. [my emphasis]
Father AND of the Son AND of the Holy Spirit.
Compare:
your spirit AND soul AND body indicating OUR three distinct parts of our complete being.
ὑμῶν τὸ πνεῦμα καὶ ἡ ψυχὴ καὶ τὸ σῶμα ἀμέμπτως
My only point here is to establish that WE human beings are of three parts which all together make us complete.
You are fond of captializing in English spirit such that you read our spirit is our Spirit.
I think it is clearer to distinguish when possible the Third Person of the Trinity - Spirit and the human
part - spirit.
Here I understand your "Amen" to indicate "So Be It" as Paul wrote. May God really sanctify us perfectly and preserve us blameless atThe God of Peace sanctifies us perfectly. And completes our Spirit, soul and Body. Preserving us blameless at our Lord Jesus' coming. Amen
His coming. To me that is a good sign that your translation doubt doesn't interfere too much with your willingness to
affirm God will do this work.
That is the proper response of faith I would say.
I assume this "optative mood" expresses Paul's and / or God's desire.The clauses "May sanctify" and "may preserve" use the word may due those words being in the optative mood. Which expresses one's desire. Since it is a prayer that makes sense.
Fine. Paul would not long for something God was not able to do.
Neither would God assure us of something He is unable to do.
In fact the very next verse says - "Faithful is He who calls you, who also will do it." (v. 24)
If you prefer the original - πιστὸς ὁ καλῶν ὑμᾶς, ὃς καὶ ποιήσει.
Now we may come to a deeper understanding of Paul's desire / God's desire / God's ability to do it.
The context of the letter and indeed the whole New Testament is that we must render our cooperation.
We may hinder Him from doing it fully or completely on His timetable.
God is desiring. God is willing. God is able. But He needs our cooperation.
So "Faithful is He who calls you, who also will do it" is not that He will do it if we hinder Him in foolish resistence.
The cumulative exhortations of the previous chapters 1 - 4 including 5 are the Apostle's appeal that the Thessalonians WOULD
cooperate with the sanctifying Savior God.
Yet we come to a finer point which I firmly believe.
We may procrastinate the work.
We may postpone the work.
We may cause the Triune God a little trouble so that He completes the work latter than His perfect will determined.
We can drag our feet and cause the work to be completed latter than it was SUPPOSED to be complete.
But we cannot stop Him from sanctifying us wholly - spirit and soul and body eventually.
God has all the time He needs. It is we who should use the time wisely.
Now, if He cannot complete this work by the time of Christ's coming on SOME of His children,
His hands are not tied. He can complete the work in the age to come in the 1,000 year millennial kingdom.
But complete the work of full sanctifiction that we be blameless HE WILL DO before the age of the new heaven and new earth.
So the statement is true "Faithful is He who calls you, who also will do it"
We ought not stagger in any unbelief. Because it is ordained for us even before the creation of the universe.
Before the foundation of the world God had in His heart to have sons blameless before Him in love.
καθὼς καὶ ἐξελέξατο ἡμᾶς ἐν αὐτῷ πρὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου εἶναι ἡμᾶς ἁγίους καὶ ἀμώμους κατενώπιον αὐτοῦ, ἐν ἀγάπῃ προορίσας ἡμᾶς εἰς υἱοθεσίαν διὰ ᾿Ιησοῦ Χριστοῦ εἰς αὐτόν, κατὰ τὴν εὐδοκίαν τοῦ θελήματος αὐτοῦ,
Even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and without blemish before Him in love,
Predestinating us unto sonship through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, (Eph. 1:4,5)
And He is able to present us faultless before His presence.
But to Him who is able to guard you from stumbling and to set you before His glory without blemish in exultation, (Jude 24)
SO . . . lets give First Thessalonians 5:23 a big "Amen."
1Thess 5:23 Αὐτὸς δὲ Now Himself
ὁ The
θεὸς God
τῆς εἰρήνης the Of Peace
ἁγιάσαι May Sanctify
ὑμᾶς You
ὁλοτελεῖς PERFECTLY
καὶ And
ὁλόκληρον COMPLETE '
ὑμῶν of you
τὸ πνεῦμα the Spirit
καὶ And
ἡ ψυχὴ the Soul
καὶ And
τὸ σῶμα the Body
ἀμέμπτως Blameless (without fault)
ἐν IN (at)
τῇ The
παρουσίᾳ Coming
τοῦ κυρίου ἡμῶν Of Our Lord
Ἰησοῦ Jesus
Χριστοῦ Christ
τηρηθείη May Be Preserved.
Now if some still are doubtful about being presented blameless introspection is not the solution.
Rather we learn from the one who wrote this, the Apostle Paul, simply to have nothing that we are aware of on our conscience.
We are confessed up of all known sins. And we endevour to have a conscience void of offense before God and men.
That is really all God asks of us.
Because of this I also exercise myself to always have a conscience without offense toward God and men. (Acts 24:16)
I thank God, whom I serve from my forefathers in a pure conscience, (2 Tim. 1:3a)
Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience. (1 Tim. 3:9)
For I am conscious of nothing against myself; but I am not justified in this, but He who examines me is the Lord. (1 Cor. 4:4)
Comments further ?
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