All authority

Hammster · May 11, 2024

Grip Docility said:
Could you please ask this question in a bifurcated fashion, that doesn't lump the philosophical discussion of God's attributes into a question about who executed Christ?

It’s a yes or no question. The answer is yes, if you are wondering.

Hammster · May 11, 2024

Mr. M said:
I just posted a few passages for consideration, but I would also like to propose a question
in reflection of the many responses on this topic.
Did the Nazis attempt to exterminate the Jews under Christ's authority, or Satan?
Any genocide for that matter. Realizing that this could spill over into the current
debate raging over the situation in Gaza.

Christ’s authority.

Grip Docility · May 11, 2024

Hammster said:
It’s a yes or no question. The answer is yes, if you are wondering.

The question was loaded. You were mixing the Pegan Platonic philosophy of God's omniscience with the question of "who" executed Jesus. I again ask you to kindly, please bifurcate the question, properly, to allow sincere answer.

Hammster · May 11, 2024

hislegacy said:
He ordained my child to walk the floor nightly in horror and pain - to vomit until there was nothing left to vomit? For no particular purpose?

My mistake. I typed it wrong. I meant to say that He had a purpose. Otherwise, purposeless evil means that there are things that He can’t control. Let me ask you this. Could God have stopped it?

Grip Docility · May 11, 2024

Hammster said:
Christ’s authority.

This is not a well or wise answer.

hislegacy · May 11, 2024

Hammster said:
My mistake. I typed it wrong. I meant to say that He had a purpose. Otherwise, purposeless evil means that there are things that He can’t control. Let me ask you this. Could God have stopped it?

Then what was His Divine purpose in my daughter being raped?

No God could not have stopped it. While having authority on the earth, He could not have stopped this man’s free will to hurt my child.

We are told by Jesus to pray that Gods will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

Do you believe children are raped in heaven?

Grip Docility · May 11, 2024

hislegacy said:
Then what was His Divine purpose in my daughter being raped?

No God could not have stopped it. While having authority on the earth, He could not have stopped this man’s free will to hurt my child.

We are told by Jesus to pray that Gods will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

Do you believe children are raped in heaven?

Job 1:22 In all this Job did not sin, nor did he charge God with moral impropriety.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And in all these things Job did not sin, neither did he blaspheme against God.

Neostarwcc · May 11, 2024

Actually Satan cannot do anything without God's permission. Even when Satan wants to tempt or attack God's sheep Satan needs God's permission. Jesus kinda proved this fact when he brought up to Peter that Satan wanted to sift Peter like wheat. Satan asked for permission to destroy Peter and God only allowed Satan to temporarily allow him to cause Peter to fall away.

Grip Docility · May 11, 2024

Neostarwcc said:
Actually Satan cannot do anything without God's permission. Even when Satan wants to tempt or attack God's sheep Satan needs God's permission. Jesus kinda proved this fact when he brought up to Peter that Satan wanted to sift Peter like wheat. Satan asked for permission to destroy Peter and God only allowed Satan to temporarily allow him to cause Peter to fall away.

Theological Logical Fallacy

Jeremiah 19:5
They have built high places to Baal on which to burn their children in the fire as offerings to Baal—something I never commanded or mentioned, nor did it even enter My mind.

Neostarwcc · May 11, 2024

Grip Docility said:
Theological Logical Fallacy

Jeremiah 19:5
They have built high places to Baal on which to burn their children in the fire as offerings to Baal—something I never commanded or mentioned, nor did it even enter My mind.

So Jesus never told Peter that Satan asked for permission to sift Peter like wheat? Just because God never commanded or mentioned one particular event and something was thr actions of humans doesn't mean that Satan doesn't need God's permission to literally do anything which scripture does mention in multiple places.

Don't forget Satan is a fallen Angel who once was God's most loyal servant and humanity was not created with the same duties as angels were. Angels have to be in 100% service to God fallen or not while fallen humanity does not. The reason why is because angels were created to be God's servants while humans were created to obey God yes, but we were also created to be with God and when we fell our nature fell too.

Grip Docility · May 11, 2024

Neostarwcc said:
So Jesus never told Peter that Satan asked for permission to sift Peter like wheat? Just because God never commanded or mentioned one particular event and something was thr actions of humans doesn't mean that Satan doesn't need God's permission to literally do anything which scripture does mention in multiple places.

You have the full extra biblical doctrine of Total Depravity, Unconditional Election, Limited Atonement, Irresistible Grace and Perseverance of the saints as your theological badge.

Without use of frail human logic, can you directly address that YH-H spoke to Jerimiah in first person that He did not command or think of a thing... and again... eventually leveled those civilizations that dared to do such wickedness as burn babies?

Jeremiah 19:5 Cross Reference

Grip Docility · May 11, 2024

Neostarwcc said:
So Jesus never told Peter that Satan asked for permission to sift Peter like wheat? Just because God never commanded or mentioned one particular event and something was thr actions of humans doesn't mean that Satan doesn't need God's permission to literally do anything which scripture does mention in multiple places.

Don't forget Satan is a fallen Angel who once was God's most loyal servant and humanity was not created with the same duties as angels were. Angels have to be in 100% service to God fallen humanity does not.

I will give a "bread" crumb...

John 2:24-25 But Jesus would not entrust himself to them, for he knew all people. 25 He did not need any testimony about mankind, for he knew what was in each person.

If you've seen The Son, per our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, WHO have we seen?

Aaron112 · May 11, 2024

hislegacy said:
Obfuscating the question is not an answer.

From the history and unreliability of forums and the internet,
I'd expect <almost> no one on the internet can give a truthful satisfactory answer in line with Scripture or as from God's View.
However, the joy and hope and healing along with daily continual GRIEF and ANGER(righteous indignation) from and in Jesus is available, just not on the internet.
The sin in this world now today is overwhelming, as in the evil days of Noah before the flood.

Mr. M · May 11, 2024

Hammster said:
Christ’s authority.

"He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning.
For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil."
“But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners,
is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not!"

Mr. M · May 11, 2024

Hammster said:
Christ’s authority.

Not the Spirit of Christ.
Luke 9:
51 Now it came to pass, when the time had come for Him to be received up,
that He steadfastly set His face to go to Jerusalem,
52 and sent messengers before His face. And as they went, they entered
a village of the Samaritans, to prepare for Him.
53 But they did not receive Him, because His face was set for the journey to Jerusalem.
54 And when His disciples James and John saw this, they said,
“Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven
and consume them, just as Elijah did?”

55 But He turned and rebuked them, and said, “You do not know what manner of spirit you are of.
56 For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives but to save them.
And they went to another village.

Hammster · May 11, 2024

Grip Docility said:
This is not a well or wise answer.

I’m sorry you think so. It’s definitely biblical.

Hammster · May 11, 2024

hislegacy said:
Then what was His Divine purpose in my daughter being raped?

I don’t know. I’m not God.

hislegacy said:
No God could not have stopped it. While having authority on the earth, He could not have stopped this man’s free will to hurt my child.

And that’s the danger of free will theology. It makes God anemic.

hislegacy said:
We are told by Jesus to pray that Gods will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

Alongside the growth of His kingdom. They go hand in hand. And the way we know it will be successful is because all authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Christ.

hislegacy said:
Do you believe children are raped in heaven?

No.

Grip Docility · May 11, 2024

Hammster said:
I’m sorry you think so. It’s definitely biblical.

Let the reader's decide. Opinions discussed are helpful to seekers.

Hammster said:
God has never stopped exercising His authority.

Having Authority and applying it are two different things.

God Has exercised His authority off and on from Genesis to Jude…. But all Revelation related DAY OF THE LORD PROPHECIES haven’t occurred yet. This is obvious!

Hammster said:
Jesus has authority from His Father. If He isn’t applying it, then He’s irresponsible and untrustworthy.

Hammster said:
Who was responsible for the most evil act in history?

Grip Docility said:
Satan

Hammster said:
Scripture disagrees with you again.

this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death.
— Acts 2:23

Hammster said:
But the LORD was pleased
To crush Him, putting Him to grief;
If He would render Himself as a guilt offering,
He will see His offspring,
He will prolong His days,
And the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand.
— Isaiah 53:10

Amos 5:7 O you who turn justice to wormwood and cast down righteousness to the earth!

Proverbs 17:15 He who justifies the wicked and he who condemns the righteous are both alike an abomination to the Lord.

Isaiah 5:20 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!

hislegacy said:
In your opinion - did God ordain the rape of my seven year old daughter.

Ordain - def - To order or decree by virtue of superior authority

Hammster said:
Yes, He did. That doesn’t mean he made someone do it. It doesn’t mean He didn’t have a purpose. But keep in mind that as sinful creatures, we should not expect to be treated better than our Savior.

Edit to correct a point.

hislegacy said:
Then what was His Divine purpose in my daughter being raped?

No God could not have stopped it. While having authority on the earth, He could not have stopped this man’s free will to hurt my child.

We are told by Jesus to pray that Gods will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

Do you believe children are raped in heaven?

Mr. M said:
Not the Spirit of Christ.
Luke 9:
51 Now it came to pass, when the time had come for Him to be received up,
that He steadfastly set His face to go to Jerusalem,
52 and sent messengers before His face. And as they went, they entered
a village of the Samaritans, to prepare for Him.
53 But they did not receive Him, because His face was set for the journey to Jerusalem.
54 And when His disciples James and John saw this, they said,
“Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven
and consume them, just as Elijah did?”

55 But He turned and rebuked them, and said, “You do not know what manner of spirit you are of.
56 For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives but to save them.
And they went to another village.

Hammster said:
Good scripture. Not sure how you think it’s a rebuttal, though.

Mr. M said:
I just posted a few passages for consideration, but I would also like to propose a question
in reflection of the many responses on this topic.
Did the Nazis attempt to exterminate the Jews under Christ's authority, or Satan?
Any genocide for that matter. Realizing that this could spill over into the current
debate raging over the situation in Gaza.

Hammster said:
Christ’s authority.

Hammster · May 11, 2024

Mr. M said:
"He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning.
For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil."
“But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners,
is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not!"

I agree.

Hammster · May 11, 2024

Mr. M said:
Not the Spirit of Christ.
Luke 9:
51 Now it came to pass, when the time had come for Him to be received up,
that He steadfastly set His face to go to Jerusalem,
52 and sent messengers before His face. And as they went, they entered
a village of the Samaritans, to prepare for Him.
53 But they did not receive Him, because His face was set for the journey to Jerusalem.
54 And when His disciples James and John saw this, they said,
“Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven
and consume them, just as Elijah did?”

55 But He turned and rebuked them, and said, “You do not know what manner of spirit you are of.
56 For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives but to save them.
And they went to another village.

Good scripture. Not sure how you think it’s a rebuttal, though.

All authority

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.

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The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.

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Jesus is the only Way

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We are saved purely by the work and grace of God.

Well-Known Member

We are saved purely by the work and grace of God.

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

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The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.

Well-Known Member

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.

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