The Rapture theory is true?

FredVB said:

We who are believers will be caught up with those believers who have lived before to be with Christ our Lord indeed before the God's judgment in this life comes on those unrepentant of all the world, with all the rebellion, destructiveness, and wickedness. But there is no good basis to say that being caught up next before other things happen, believers will just be gone when taken to not be here when the judgment comes.

We are part of the contribution to destructiveness to this earth, which God hates, and will not be taken to miss the worsening conditions. We as believers before us have will still see troubles ahead, and we had involvement in that.

Believers are in the system and generally can't see it with living in it and hearing only what is spoken in it. Leaders in Christianity did not know so they made their best guesses, with using passages, and would tell followers in their church that Mystery Babylon was another church. Most believers then understand it that way, and speak for that. Others make their own best guesses with passages they use, and figure out it is one certain city, or another. But Revelation 18 is still mostly disregarded, where it is shown what is characterizing what it calls Mystery Babylon. And it is showing that it is all cities of civilization. That remains a mystery because believers generally are not ready and don't want to learn that where they are is Mystery Babylon, that they should get out from there. And we do not belong in Mystery Babylon. If we do not listen to others interpretations, and that is what they are, and learn more about what is going on, the fulfilling of prophecies will be seen, and telling signs are all around that cities of civilization are all collectively the Mystery Babylon that will fall and collapse. It is not godly, and never was, but believers who are prospering (not all are though) are materialistic along with the culture around them, and would not just be willing to depart from what they have here, even while it is with what there is destruction to this earth from it that God hates (Revelation 11:18) along with all the exploitation Revelation 18 speaks of. God never started or endorsed the civilization that comes to this, it was never godly. Believers need to come out, any who would not continue to be a part of that should come out, and live in godly ways separately without destructiveness to the earth around them.

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Celebration of the Lamb's marriage? ONLY AFTER THE JUDGMENT OF BABYLON

According to GOD's Word, what needs to happen first? Exactly what is written in Revelation 18: 1 to 5, i.e. the Judgment of the Great harlot, as follows:

1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. (Note: This angel is spiritually higher and more powerful than the angels of the Churches)
2 And he cried (will cry) mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

The Antichrist was born and rose up from the own Church-See how​

Yes, the birthplace, or the cradle of Antichrist, was the own Church, unfortunately, see how. 1 John 2:v.18-19:
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that...
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4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and GOD hath remembered her iniquities.

Then, just after the fall of Babylon as above quoted, the marriage of the Lamb will be celebrated, yes, the marriage of the Lamb comes and the wife of the Lamb makes herself ready, yeah, the Bride makes herself ready for this wonderful event, Hallelujah! And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

AFTER THE JUDGMENT OF BABYLON
Revelation 19:1 to 10

1 And AFTER these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and Glory, and Honour, and Power, unto the Lord our GOD:
2 For true and righteous are His Judgments: for He hath Judged the Great harlot (AS ABOVE DESCRIBED), which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of His servants at her hand.
3 And again they said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.
4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped GOD that sat on the throne, saying, Amen;Alleluia.(Revelation
11:15-18 also describe this celestial Event)
5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye His servants, and ye that fear Him, both small and great.
6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord GOD Omnipotent reigneth.
7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to Him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and His wife hath made herself ready.
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of GOD.

10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship GOD: for the testimony of JESUS is the spirit of prophecy.

REVELATION 1: 7 - 8
7 Behold, He cometh with clouds{See exemple in Exodus 19:14-17, and understand the biblical chronology: we are in the 3rd Day} ; and every eye shall see Him, and they also which pierced Him(around 2000 years ago, or two Days): and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him. Even so, Amen.

8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. Amen. Hallelujaaah!

Celebration of the Lamb's marriage? ONLY AFTER THE JUDGMENT OF BABYLON

According to GOD's Word, what needs to happen first? Exactly what is written in Revelation 18: 1 to 5, i.e. the Judgment of the Great harlot, as follows: 1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. (Note: This...

purebibleforum.com

Get ready

Oseas said:

Celebration of the Lamb's marriage? ONLY AFTER THE JUDGMENT OF BABYLON

According to GOD's Word, what needs to happen first? Exactly what is written in Revelation 18: 1 to 5, i.e. the Judgment of the Great harlot, as follows:

1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. (Note: This angel is spiritually higher and more powerful than the angels of the Churches)
2 And he cried (will cry) mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

The Antichrist was born and rose up from the own Church-See how​

Yes, the birthplace, or the cradle of Antichrist, was the own Church, unfortunately, see how. 1 John 2:v.18-19:
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that...
purebibleforum.com
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and GOD hath remembered her iniquities.

Then, just after the fall of Babylon as above quoted, the marriage of the Lamb will be celebrated, yes, the marriage of the Lamb comes and the wife of the Lamb makes herself ready, yeah, the Bride makes herself ready for this wonderful event, Hallelujah! And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

AFTER THE JUDGMENT OF BABYLON
Revelation 19:1 to 10

1 And AFTER these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and Glory, and Honour, and Power, unto the Lord our GOD:
2 For true and righteous are His Judgments: for He hath Judged the Great harlot (AS ABOVE DESCRIBED), which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of His servants at her hand.
3 And again they said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.
4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped GOD that sat on the throne, saying, Amen;Alleluia.(Revelation
11:15-18 also describe this celestial Event)
5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye His servants, and ye that fear Him, both small and great.
6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord GOD Omnipotent reigneth.
7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to Him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and His wife hath made herself ready.
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of GOD.

10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship GOD: for the testimony of JESUS is the spirit of prophecy.

REVELATION 1: 7 - 8
7 Behold, He cometh with clouds{See exemple in Exodus 19:14-17, and understand the biblical chronology: we are in the 3rd Day} ; and every eye shall see Him, and they also which pierced Him(around 2000 years ago, or two Days): and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him. Even so, Amen.

8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. Amen. Hallelujaaah!

Celebration of the Lamb's marriage? ONLY AFTER THE JUDGMENT OF BABYLON

According to GOD's Word, what needs to happen first? Exactly what is written in Revelation 18: 1 to 5, i.e. the Judgment of the Great harlot, as follows: 1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. (Note: This...

purebibleforum.com

Get ready

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Seeing this is a response to me, with my message quoted, I read this, several times, and it still is not clear to me what you are saying differently. Perhaps English is not your first language? There is a lot of use of Bible passages, and I know those. Can you clearly say what your point is?

Yes, Mystery Babylon represents what will collapse and fall, not really far off. The marriage of the Lamb will be later. Certainly.

Sorry but I don't communicate with offsite pages linked to. I would answer those speaking to me, speaking for themselves, sooner or later.

FredVB said:

Seeing this is a response to me, with my message quoted, I read this, several times, and it still is not clear to me what you are saying differently. Perhaps English is not your first language? There is a lot of use of Bible passages, and I know those. Can you clearly say what your point is?
Yes, Mystery Babylon represents what will collapse and fall, not really far off. The marriage of the Lamb will be later. Certainly.

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Greetings in Christ JESUS, FredVB

Thank you for your reply, yes, English is not my native language, I am from Brazil, here we speak in Portuguese.

As you can see, my point was only to quote some Scriptures in Revelation, within of the view of your post, by which JESUS described and reveal when and how will be the wonderful celebration of His marriage with His Church, that will occur after the victory of His people against Babylon the great, the Mother of all abominations. By the way, The angel of the Lord encampeth round about them that fear Him, and delivereth them-Psalm 34:7.

FredVB said:

Sorry but I don't communicate with offsite pages linked to. I would answer those speaking to me, speaking for themselves, sooner or later.

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Ok, only for clarify, the offsite page linked refers to the same point above commented, I myself wrote and posted on the site linked.

God bless

Oseas said:

Greetings in Christ JESUS, FredVB

Thank you for your reply, yes, English is not my native language, I am from Brazil, here we speak in Portuguese.

As you can see, my point was only to quote some Scriptures in Revelation, within of the view of your post, by which JESUS described and reveal when and how will be the wonderful celebration of His marriage with His Church, that will occur after the victory of His people against Babylon the great, the Mother of all abominations. By the way, The angel of the Lord encampeth round about them that fear Him, and delivereth them-Psalm 34:7.

Ok, only for clarify, the offsite page linked refers to the same point above commented, I myself wrote and posted on the site linked.

God bless

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Yes, with God's grace, repentant believers, being the ones saved with Christ's accomplishments for them, are going to be delivered. From what? From God's just judgment in this world on the unrepentant nonbelievers, for the wickedness, corruption, materialism, selfishness, and involvement in destructiveness. Believers are not removed from everything, history shows what believers can still go through, as many of them do now in some places. With deliverance for us, that comes from God and God's grace for us, should we not stop things we are doing wrong. Yes, that is what we are supposed to do. So, the call in passages to 'Come out from her' have that additional meaning that we do belong here with the wickedness, corruption, materialism, selfishness, and involvement with destructiveness all around us, in our culture, in civilization. We do not belong here. Even while God has used us, we must do all we can to go out from this, God will still use us in that, with other believers who will join in the same thing, living apart where they can grow things they need separately, without any of the wickedness, corruption, materialism, selfishness, or involvement in destructiveness even to any of the world around us or any of those in it.

FredVB said:

Yes, with God's grace, repentant believers, being the ones saved with Christ's accomplishments for them, are going to be delivered. From what? From God's just judgment in this world on the unrepentant nonbelievers, for the wickedness, corruption, materialism, selfishness, and involvement in destructiveness. Believers are not removed from everything, history shows what believers can still go through, as many of them do now in some places. With deliverance for us, that comes from God and God's grace for us, should we not stop things we are doing wrong. Yes, that is what we are supposed to do. So, the call in passages to 'Come out from her' have that additional meaning that we do belong here with the wickedness, corruption, materialism, selfishness, and involvement with destructiveness all around us, in our culture, in civilization. We do not belong here. Even while God has used us, we must do all we can to go out from this, God will still use us in that, with other believers who will join in the same thing, living apart where they can grow things they need separately, without any of the wickedness, corruption, materialism, selfishness, or involvement in destructiveness even to any of the world around us or any of those in it.

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Regardings GOD's Judgment in this world what does the Word of GOD say? The Judgment will be given to the saints of the most High, in fact the the Judgment of GOD -the Word is GOD - shall sit, and the Kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, Who will render to every man according to his deeds, i.e. to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life; but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the Truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that does evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that works good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile, By the way, you know that there is no respect of persons with GOD.

Revelation 11:15 to 18

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the Kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord GOD Almighty, which are, and was, and are to come; because thou has taken to thee thy great power, and has reigned.

18 And the nations were (will be) angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be Judged, and that thou should give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and should destroy them which destroy the earth.

Be careful and get ready

Oseas said:

Regardings GOD's Judgment in this world what does the Word of GOD say? The Judgment will be given to the saints of the most High, in fact the the Judgment of GOD -the Word is GOD - shall sit, and the Kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, Who will render to every man according to his deeds, i.e. to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life; but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the Truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that does evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that works good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile, By the way, you know that there is no respect of persons with GOD.

Revelation 11:15 to 18

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the Kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord GOD Almighty, which are, and was, and are to come; because thou has taken to thee thy great power, and has reigned.

18 And the nations were (will be) angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be Judged, and that thou should give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and should destroy them which destroy the earth.

Be careful and get ready

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Yes, I had mentioned judgment, not in the last post from me that you quoted here though, with me saying God's judgment in this world. It is for the wickedness, materialism, selfishness, and destructiveness in this world without repentance. There will be God's lasting judgment later, at the end of this world, before it is made new with the creation, having its creatures from God groaning for that, along with the redeemed now revealed with their repentance, being in Christ who bore the judgment from God for them. We will have a position for judging sin, but not in place of where God's judgment comes.

FredVB said:

Yes, I had mentioned judgment, not in the last post from me that you quoted here though, with me saying God's judgment in this world. It is for the wickedness, materialism, selfishness, and destructiveness in this world without repentance. There will be God's lasting judgment later, at the end of this world, before it is made new with the creation, having its creatures from God groaning for that, along with the redeemed now revealed with their repentance, being in Christ who bore the judgment from God for them. We will have a position for judging sin, but not in place of where God's judgment comes.

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1 Peter 4:17-18

17 - The time is come that Judgment MUST begin at the house of GOD: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

18 - And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

Romans 2:8-9

8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the Truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;


Daniel 2:20-22 and 26-28 and 40-45

20 Blessed be the name of GOD for ever and ever: for wisdom and might are His:

21 And He changeth the times and the seasons(See what JESUS said: Acts 1:6-7): He removeth kings, and setteth up kings: He giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:

22 He revealeth the deep and secret things: He knoweth what is in the darkness, and the light dwelleth with Him.

26 The king...said to Daniel, whose name was Belteshazzar, Art thou able to make known unto me the dream which I have seen, and the interpretation thereof?

27 Daniel answered in the presence of the king, and said, The secret which the king hath demanded cannot the wise men, the astrologers, the magicians, the soothsayers, shew unto the king;

28 But there is a GOD in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days. Thy dream, and the visions of thy head upon thy bed, are these;

...

40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron (Roman Empire): forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.

41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes(10 toes), part of potters' clay(Israel-Isaiah 64:8, descendants of Abraham-GOD is the Potter), and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided(Gentile people and Jewish people); but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron(Roman Empire), forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.

42 And as the toes(10 toes) of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong(iron-Roman Empire), and partly broken(clay-Israel).

43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another (The Jewish people mix not with Gentile people), even as iron is not mixed with clay.

44 And in the days of these kings shall the GOD of heaven set up a Kingdom (GOD's Kingsdom-Revelation 11:15-18-check it.), which shall never be destroyed: and the Kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great GOD hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

Oseas said:

1 Peter 4:17-18

17 - The time is come that Judgment MUST begin at the house of GOD: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

18 - And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

Romans 2:8-9

8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the Truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;


Daniel 2:20-22 and 26-28 and 40-45

20 Blessed be the name of GOD for ever and ever: for wisdom and might are His:

21 And He changeth the times and the seasons(See what JESUS said: Acts 1:6-7): He removeth kings, and setteth up kings: He giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:

22 He revealeth the deep and secret things: He knoweth what is in the darkness, and the light dwelleth with Him.

26 The king...said to Daniel, whose name was Belteshazzar, Art thou able to make known unto me the dream which I have seen, and the interpretation thereof?

27 Daniel answered in the presence of the king, and said, The secret which the king hath demanded cannot the wise men, the astrologers, the magicians, the soothsayers, shew unto the king;

28 But there is a GOD in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days. Thy dream, and the visions of thy head upon thy bed, are these;

...

40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron (Roman Empire): forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.

41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes(10 toes), part of potters' clay(Israel-Isaiah 64:8, descendants of Abraham-GOD is the Potter), and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided(Gentile people and Jewish people); but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron(Roman Empire), forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.

42 And as the toes(10 toes) of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong(iron-Roman Empire), and partly broken(clay-Israel).

43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another (The Jewish people mix not with Gentile people), even as iron is not mixed with clay.

44 And in the days of these kings shall the GOD of heaven set up a Kingdom (GOD's Kingsdom-Revelation 11:15-18-check it.), which shall never be destroyed: and the Kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great GOD hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

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The way you write in response, only sharing Bible verses, I have to carefully consider what it has to do with what I post in response. It is not as clear as you just saying what you mean in response, because using scripture passages in response is including your interpretation, which I have to look for to see what response is meant. I think I do now, but again it would be clearer if you would just say it, even with referring to the passages. Passages don't necessarily say what we interpret them to say, so sharing passages without any comment is not very effective. I and also many others do not argue against passages but may disagree with interpretations.

So what I see is that I think you mean judging within the church must only be believers doing that to each other. I don't see that to be the case. There is judgment from God, the only fair judge, that will start within the church. Does that have anything to do with what I share in communication about judgment in this world from God that is coming, after the collapse that is not far away?

Elfkind said:

I'm sorry that I didn't read your whole post, but I agree that there certainly seem to be a very active heresy alive within different Christian communities, and this can be traced back to the fiction books called "Left Behind" and nothing else. I don't think the author have claimed that these books have anything to do with reality, but if he/she have, then it have been one of the most efficient heresies to ever strike the Church of God and the author certainly most cursed.

By reading the New Testament it couldn't be more clear what Jesus or the apostles have to say about the end times, and this is that it will come as a surprise. That people will live normal lives, get married etc. until the end. That it will come as a thief in the night (at any time), and that only God know the time. That we should be prepared. That unbelievers will be blaspheming God because of the long time that have passed. That many false prophets will come. That false Christs will come. But that we should live as Christians as if the end is upon up, at the same time live our early lives as everything is OK. That's basically what I've understood the bible to be saying about this.

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Good job friend. Good documentation. Glad we agree the rapture theory is false doctrine and lies. Ezekiel chapter 13, God hates the fly away doctrine. It's sad some churches teach this. Truth is, pastor or reverend or priests, will lose their salaries, pension and position, if they go against the deacon board. They're compromised.

What we as believers should do is really live responsibly, which we should do all along. There is no assurance at all when believers who are in Christ will be caught up to be with the Lord. We are told it will happen, not when, but God's judgment in this world on the unrepentant with their greater wickedness in this world will come after that, which is not for those who are repentant being in Christ who bore everything for them. But to live responsibly which involves stewardship to this world which we are here for, to be in the image of God, who would be responsible for God's creation, as God's people we would not stay in Mystery Babylon, where we do not belong, we would get out from places of civilization, the cities with all who are in them cannot live with responsible stewardship to this earth, and the cities and civilization itself is godless, and grows more in being against God. We are supposed to see already that we must choose to get out, quickly, together with others of us, helping those who need help with that, and I know I do, to where we as groups of believers live on land in sustainable ways we should have with really good stewardship, and live in godly ways. Mystery Babylon will not last, its collapse will be a surprise.

FredVB said:

The way you write in response, only sharing Bible verses, I have to carefully consider what it has to do with what I post in response. It is not as clear as you just saying what you mean in response, because using scripture passages in response is including your interpretation, which I have to look for to see what response is meant. I think I do now, but again it would be clearer if you would just say it, even with referring to the passages. Passages don't necessarily say what we interpret them to say, so sharing passages without any comment is not very effective. I and also many others do not argue against passages but may disagree with interpretations.

So what I see is that I think you mean judging within the church must only be believers doing that to each other. I don't see that to be the case. There is judgment from God, the only fair judge, that will start within the church. Does that have anything to do with what I share in communication about judgment in this world from God that is coming, after the collapse that is not far away?

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What matters and prevails is the everlasting and self-executing Word of GOD, the Word is GOD. I work with the Word of GOD, "For the Word of GOD is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in His sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of Him with whom we must have to render an account-Hebrews 4:12-13.

The world of Devil, with its nations as a whole, and with all kind of its structures, they are already sufferring and will continue sufferring catastrofic and insufferable punishments in this seventh and last millennium, or seventh and last Day, the LORD's Day. Now, even now, from now on, there will be only and only severe and unbearable, inssusfferable punishments. Get ready, if you're not ready yet to face what's coming soon.

By the way, this current precedent period of sorrows -Matthew 24:3-8 have a list of events made by JESUS- and it is still running, and it is a period of transition to the beginning of the ETERNAL chastisement, but there will not be any gap between this period of sorrows and the begining of the ETERNAL chastisement, it is a suscessive and immediate event of massive punishment, understand?
In fact, the EVERLASTING punishment of all nations, it had a deadline to start, understand? But not to end, as we can understand by the Word of GOD, for it is for ever and ever, the Word is GOD, the Word is self-executing,the Word of GOD is from everlasting to the everlasting.

I must say that we are linving in the seventh and last Day, the Lord's Day, or seventh and last millennium, so the Eternal punishment is already started, it started first by a period of sorrows, from now on it will NEVER end, but never.

Now, within this environment of punishments and pains, and the entire collapse of the Devil's world, then the false messiah of the Jews, as you know, will manifest himself, as JESUS prophesied to the Jews, saying to them that an IMPOSTOR they will receive as their messiah-John 5:43-47, combined with 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12, and Revelation 13 :11-18, among other biblical references. Take a look.

Thus, in the midst of severe chastisement and great suffering in all nations due the wrath of the Lamb, we will soon see TWO BEASTS reigning on Earth, through the fifth Universal and satanic Kingdom, the religious and devilish Antichrist's kingdom-Daniel 2:41-44:

1st Beast - the ancient Gentile Beast of the Sea-Revelation 13:1-10;
2nd Beast - the Beast of the earth (the Beast of Israel, the clay, the dry land) who will still manifest himself as messiah-Revelation 13:11-18 combined with John 5:43-47and 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 and 9-12, among other biblical references Take a look

We will soon see two Beasts reigning on Earth, through the fifth Universal kingdom, a religious and satanic Kingdom, the Antichrist's kingdom-Daniel 2:41-44, iron and clay, Catholicism and Judaism, from then on will begin the period of the last week(of years), the 70th week Daniel 9:27, and each Beast will reign for 3,5 years-42 months-or 1260 days - and who will FIRST rule the 5th and last kingdom of the Devil-Daniel 2:41-44, combined with Luke 21:24 and Revelation 11:2, it is the Beast of sea;

Then Revelation 11:2 and Revelation 13:5 will begin LITERALLY be fulfilled as the first period of the last week, the first ruler of the 1st half of the last week is the ancient Gentile Beast of the sea. The worst of all punishments will happen in the beginning of the 2nd half of the last week, with the establishment of the Abomination of Desolation for 1290 days-Daniel 12:v.11- it will be established by the false messiah-Revelation 13:11.

Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days-Daniel 12:12. (Oh yes, blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the Ineffable, Wonderful, Indescribable, Unspeakable day, the day 1.335, as says the Word of GOD. Hallelujaaah!!!)

FredVB said:

The way you write in response, only sharing Bible verses, I have to carefully consider what it has to do with what I post in response. It is not as clear as you just saying what you mean in response, because using scripture passages in response is including your interpretation, which I have to look for to see what response is meant. I think I do now, but again it would be clearer if you would just say it, even with referring to the passages. Passages don't necessarily say what we interpret them to say, so sharing passages without any comment is not very effective. I and also many others do not argue against passages but may disagree with interpretations.

So what I see is that I think you mean judging within the church must only be believers doing that to each other. I don't see that to be the case. There is judgment from God, the only fair judge, that will start within the church. Does that have anything to do with what I share in communication about judgment in this world from God that is coming, after the collapse that is not far away?

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He whom GOD sends speaks the words of GOD: for GOD gives not the Spirit by measure unto him. He that is of the earth is earthly, and speaks of the earth: he that comes from heaven(heaven?Ephesians 1:3-8) is above all. What he has seen and heard, that he testifies. My speech and my preaching is not with enticing words of man's wisdom, your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of GOD.

In fact we speak the wisdom of GOD in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which GOD ordained before the world unto our glory.
But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which GOD has prepared for them that love Him. God revealed them unto us by His Spirit: for the Spirit searches all things, yea, the deep things of GOD.

What man knows the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of GOD knows no man, but the Spirit of GOD, understand?

Pipiripi said:

Bible Proof: The Rapture Theory is False.

John 17:15

There is a teaching today that is rife within the Christian world, called rapture. What is the rapture theory? It is to believed by those who hold to this theory (and there are MANY who do), that the "church" will be raptured away to heaven and then the earth will continue for a period of seven years (called the tribulation) in which the inhabitants of the earth will be plunged into a time of great trouble and strife (more so than now). So according to this teaching there is a separation to take place between the saved and the lost BEFORE the end of the world............

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It is my understanding that there are two fulfillments for the Book of Revelation regarding the Israelites/Jews. The first fulfillment was in AD 70 and the second fulfillment will be during the time of the last antichrist which is shortly before Jesus' final/second coming at the end of time.

It is also my understanding that the "a thousand years" is symbolic for the long time period between the first coming of Jesus Christ and His second/final coming at the end of time.

Jesus is reigning in heaven presently along with all of the righteous persons who have died and are now with Him in heaven awaiting the resurrection of their bodies at the end of time/Jesus' second/final coming. 2 Timothy 2:12

The first persons to enter into heaven with Jesus were those righteous persons who were awaiting in Abraham's bosom for Jesus' death on the cross to free them from Adam's sin so that Jesus could then re-open the gates of heaven for them to enter. Luke 16:22, Matthew 22:32, Revelation 20:4, Revelation 20:6

Adam's sin prevented all persons from entering into heaven. Romans 5:12 Jesus' perfect sacrificial death on the cross redeemed us from Adam's sin and so now it is possible for us to enter into heaven. Titus 2:14, Ephesians 1:7, Hebrews 9:12

This "a thousand years" time period between Jesus' first coming and His second/final coming is also known as the "time of the Gentiles". Hebrews 9:28

Shortly before the end of the time (Jesus' second/final coming), the Israelites/Jews/Remnant will come into the Church and this is how "all Israel will be saved". Romans 11:25-28, Romans 9:27-28

Oseas said:

What matters and prevails is the everlasting and self-executing Word of GOD, the Word is GOD. I work with the Word of GOD, "For the Word of GOD is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in His sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of Him with whom we must have to render an account-Hebrews 4:12-13.

The world of Devil, with its nations as a whole, and with all kind of its structures, they are already sufferring and will continue sufferring catastrofic and insufferable punishments in this seventh and last millennium, or seventh and last Day, the LORD's Day. Now, even now, from now on, there will be only and only severe and unbearable, inssusfferable punishments. Get ready, if you're not ready yet to face what's coming soon.

By the way, this current precedent period of sorrows -Matthew 24:3-8 have a list of events made by JESUS- and it is still running, and it is a period of transition to the beginning of the ETERNAL chastisement, but there will not be any gap between this period of sorrows and the begining of the ETERNAL chastisement, it is a suscessive and immediate event of massive punishment, understand?
In fact, the EVERLASTING punishment of all nations, it had a deadline to start, understand? But not to end, as we can understand by the Word of GOD, for it is for ever and ever, the Word is GOD, the Word is self-executing,the Word of GOD is from everlasting to the everlasting.

I must say that we are linving in the seventh and last Day, the Lord's Day, or seventh and last millennium, so the Eternal punishment is already started, it started first by a period of sorrows, from now on it will NEVER end, but never.

Now, within this environment of punishments and pains, and the entire collapse of the Devil's world, then the false messiah of the Jews, as you know, will manifest himself, as JESUS prophesied to the Jews, saying to them that an IMPOSTOR they will receive as their messiah-John 5:43-47, combined with 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12, and Revelation 13 :11-18, among other biblical references. Take a look.

Thus, in the midst of severe chastisement and great suffering in all nations due the wrath of the Lamb, we will soon see TWO BEASTS reigning on Earth, through the fifth Universal and satanic Kingdom, the religious and devilish Antichrist's kingdom-Daniel 2:41-44:

1st Beast - the ancient Gentile Beast of the Sea-Revelation 13:1-10;
2nd Beast - the Beast of the earth (the Beast of Israel, the clay, the dry land) who will still manifest himself as messiah-Revelation 13:11-18 combined with John 5:43-47and 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 and 9-12, among other biblical references Take a look

We will soon see two Beasts reigning on Earth, through the fifth Universal kingdom, a religious and satanic Kingdom, the Antichrist's kingdom-Daniel 2:41-44, iron and clay, Catholicism and Judaism, from then on will begin the period of the last week(of years), the 70th week Daniel 9:27, and each Beast will reign for 3,5 years-42 months-or 1260 days - and who will FIRST rule the 5th and last kingdom of the Devil-Daniel 2:41-44, combined with Luke 21:24 and Revelation 11:2, it is the Beast of sea;

Then Revelation 11:2 and Revelation 13:5 will begin LITERALLY be fulfilled as the first period of the last week, the first ruler of the 1st half of the last week is the ancient Gentile Beast of the sea. The worst of all punishments will happen in the beginning of the 2nd half of the last week, with the establishment of the Abomination of Desolation for 1290 days-Daniel 12:v.11- it will be established by the false messiah-Revelation 13:11.

Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days-Daniel 12:12. (Oh yes, blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the Ineffable, Wonderful, Indescribable, Unspeakable day, the day 1.335, as says the Word of GOD. Hallelujaaah!!!)

The election of the last Pope - Will be his religious nickname Paulus VII?

The world press has just announced the death of Benedict XVI. The current Pope Francis is also on the brink of death. Then must be elected the last Pope, and he will be the husband No. 266 (excluding Peter Apostle) of the Great harlot, the Roman Catholic Church. By the way, would be his religious...

purebibleforum.com

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I think you are not understanding. The incarnation of God is not the Bible. Logos, in the original writing, is applied to the incarnation, that we know as Jesus Christ, Logos is never in reference to the scriptures. You have your opinions that are being proclaimed as knowledge.

Oseas said:

He whom GOD sends speaks the words of GOD: for GOD gives not the Spirit by measure unto him. He that is of the earth is earthly, and speaks of the earth: he that comes from heaven(heaven?Ephesians 1:3-8) is above all. What he has seen and heard, that he testifies. My speech and my preaching is not with enticing words of man's wisdom, your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of GOD.

In fact we speak the wisdom of GOD in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which GOD ordained before the world unto our glory.
But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which GOD has prepared for them that love Him. God revealed them unto us by His Spirit: for the Spirit searches all things, yea, the deep things of GOD.

What man knows the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of GOD knows no man, but the Spirit of GOD, understand?

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I don't see that you do. Things are spread out, in fact thousands of years occurred within what are sequential prophecies in scripture passages. The collapse and fall are certain, as all scripture prophecies are, and Isaiah 24 is included. God hates the destruction to the world and it is generally happening, Revelation 11:18, and there is judgment that all which contribute to the destructiveness are subject to. There is reason God's people have to be called out. The there is more coming after that collapse, troubles are not over. God's people should be doing that which they always should have been doing. God never called for cities which men made.

Jan001 said:

It is also my understanding that the "a thousand years" is symbolic for the long time period between the first coming of Jesus Christ and His second/final coming

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There is not one text in all of scripture where "1000 years" means "as long a time as you wish not actually 1000 years".

In Rev 19-20 we see that the time between the coming of Christ in Rev 19 and the lake of fire in Rev 20 -- is exactly 1000 years.

In 2 Peter 3 -- the "coming of the Lord" and the destruction of elements of Earth by fire (Lake of fire) is said to be 1000 years "the Day of the Lord".

But the idea that "1000 years in the Bible is the 2000 or 3000 years (whatever-it-turns-out-to-be) between the time of Christ and whenever He appears" - is not found in the Bible at all.

Jan001 said:

at the end of time.

Jesus is reigning in heaven presently along with all of the righteous persons who have died

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But this world is in the power of "the prince of the power of the air" Eph 2, "The god of this world" 2 Cor4:4

Jan001 said:

This "a thousand years" time period between Jesus' first coming and His second/final coming is also known as the "time of the Gentiles". Hebrews 9:28

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There is no mention at all in Heb 9 of the 1000 years.

BobRyan said:

There is not one text in all of scripture where "1000 years" means "as long a time as you wish not actually 1000 years".

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"A thousand" does not need to mean exactly ONE thousand.

"A thousand" is not a specific number. It symbolically means "many," and it can mean "all."

Deuteronomy 7:8-11 It was because the Lord loved you and kept the oath that he swore to your ancestors, that the Lord has brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you from the house of slavery, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt. 9 Know therefore that the Lord your God is God, the faithful God who maintains covenant loyalty with those who love him and keep his commandments, to a thousand generations, 10 and who repays in their own person those who reject him. He does not delay but repays in their own person those who reject him. 11 Therefore, observe diligently the commandment—the statutes and the ordinances—that I am commanding you today.

1 Chronicles 16:15 Remember his covenant forever, the word that he commanded, for a thousand generations,

The Jews of today claim Moses was born in 1393 BCE. He led the Israelites out of Egypt when he was 80 years old. This covenant that Moses brought to the Israelites did not last a literal 1000 generations. It lasted only until Jesus ratified his New Covenant with his own blood shed on the cross. Hebrews 8:8, Hebrews 8:13, Hebrews 9:15, Hebrews 12:24

With Jesus' understanding of the number of years in a generation (40), the first covenant lasted through about 33 actual generations of Israelites.

Moses led the Israelites out of Egypt in about 1310 BC. About 1340 years passed before Jesus Christ died on the cross in 33 AD. 1340 divided by 40 equals about 33 generations. This is not one thousand (1000) actual generations. It is "many" generations.

Even if a generation is calculated to be only 20 years, this would still be only about 66 actual generations that the first covenant lasted, definitely not a literal 1000 generations.


Psalm 50:10 For every beast of the forest is Mine, And the cattle on a thousand hills.

God owns all the cattle on all the hills. He does not own just the cattle on one thousand hills.

Psalm 90:4 For a thousand years in Your sight Are like yesterday when it is past, And like a watch in the night.

BobRyan said:

In Rev 19-20 we see that the time between the coming of Christ in Rev 19 and the lake of fire in Rev 20 -- is exactly 1000 years.

In 2 Peter 3 -- the "coming of the Lord" and the destruction of elements of Earth by fire (Lake of fire) is said to be 1000 years "the Day of the Lord".

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There have already been more than "one day of the Lord." Day of the Lord may mean "God's judgment." God used the enemies of Israel to punish Israel several times.

BobRyan said:

But the idea that "1000 years in the Bible is the 2000 or 3000 years (whatever-it-turns-out-to-be) between the time of Christ and whenever He appears" - is not found in the Bible at all.

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This is what you believe according to your interpretation, which may be in error.

BobRyan said:

But this world is in the power of "the prince of the power of the air" Eph 2, "The god of this world" 2 Cor4:4

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Physical power, not spiritual power. Nothing happens on earth without Jesus' permissive will, which he uses for his own purposes for the salvation of as many people as possible.

Hebrews 7:26 For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens;

Hebrews 8:1 Now the crowning affirmation to what we are saying is this: we do have such a high priest, who has taken his seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven,

Colossians 3:1 Therefore if you have been raised with Christ, seek the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.

1 Corinthians 15:25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.

In context:

1 Corinthians 15:23-26 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.

At Jesus' second coming, when the faithful Christians on earth rise to meet Jesus in the air, death is defeated because these Christians' mortal bodies change to immortal bodies in the twinkling of an eye. 1 Corinthians 15:51-53

BobRyan said:

There is no mention at all in Heb 9 of the 1000 years.

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The patriarchs referenced in Hebrews 11 are part of the 24 elders who are worshipping God in heaven right now. They are reigning spiritually in heaven with Jesus, our King, presently. They are part of the "cloud of witnesses" watching over us on earth. Hebrews 12:1-3

Elfkind said:

I'm sorry that I didn't read your whole post, but I agree that there certainly seem to be a very active heresy alive within different Christian communities, and this can be traced back to the fiction books called "Left Behind" and nothing else. I don't think the author have claimed that these books have anything to do with reality, but if he/she have, then it have been one of the most efficient heresies to ever strike the Church of God and the author certainly most cursed.

By reading the New Testament it couldn't be more clear what Jesus or the apostles have to say about the end times, and this is that it will come as a surprise. That people will live normal lives, get married etc. until the end. That it will come as a thief in the night (at any time), and that only God know the time. That we should be prepared. That unbelievers will be blaspheming God because of the long time that have passed. That many false prophets will come. That false Christs will come. But that we should live as Christians as if the end is upon up, at the same time live our early lives as everything is OK. That's basically what I've understood the bible to be saying about this.

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There are some things you left out.
God gave Israel sufficient time after Jesus rose from the dead, to accept Him as their messiah, but for the most part, they refused. God then sent Paul to the Gentiles, and gave Paul a SPECIAL DISPENSATION for the Gentile church of today. Paul's rapture is a part of this special dispensation.
1 Corinthians 9:17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.
Ephesians 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
Ephesians 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
Colossians 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

Because all this came YEARS after Jesus gave His end-time discourse, Jesus knew nothing about Father God placing blindness in part upon Israel and sending Paul to raise up a Gentile church. This is further confirmed when Paul wrote that the rapture was a MYSTERY when God revealed it to Paul.

Therefore, when people claim they read about the rapture in Jesus' discourse, all can know it is nothing but imagination. God the Father started Paul's dispensation, and will close it with the pre-tribulation rapture. Period and end of story. Immediately after the rapture the Day of the Lord will start, at the opening of the 6th seal. A few days later, and Jesus will open the 7th seal to begin the 70th Week of Daniel. God has MARKED the entire 70th week with sevens. The 7th trumpet marks the midpoint and the 7th bowl ends it.

Friends, we can always know (be absolutely sure) that the rapture will be pre-trib, because 6 always comes before 7 in counting: the 6th seal will be opened before the 7th, and the rapture will come just before the 6th seal.

I do have a question: how are YOU going to get to heaven for the marriage and supper?

Jan001 said:

"A thousand" does not need to mean exactly ONE thousand.

"A thousand" is not a specific number. It symbolically means "many," and it can mean "all."

Deuteronomy 7:8-11 It was because the Lord loved you and kept the oath that he swore to your ancestors, that the Lord has brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you from the house of slavery, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt. 9 Know therefore that the Lord your God is God, the faithful God who maintains covenant loyalty with those who love him and keep his commandments, to a thousand generations, 10 and who repays in their own person those who reject him. He does not delay but repays in their own person those who reject him. 11 Therefore, observe diligently the commandment—the statutes and the ordinances—that I am commanding you today.

1 Chronicles 16:15 Remember his covenant forever, the word that he commanded, for a thousand generations,

The Jews of today claim Moses was born in 1393 BCE. He led the Israelites out of Egypt when he was 80 years old. This covenant that Moses brought to the Israelites did not last a literal 1000 generations. It lasted only until Jesus ratified his New Covenant with his own blood shed on the cross. Hebrews 8:8, Hebrews 8:13, Hebrews 9:15, Hebrews 12:24

With Jesus' understanding of the number of years in a generation (40), the first covenant lasted through about 33 actual generations of Israelites.

Moses led the Israelites out of Egypt in about 1310 BC. About 1340 years passed before Jesus Christ died on the cross in 33 AD. 1340 divided by 40 equals about 33 generations. This is not one thousand (1000) actual generations. It is "many" generations.

Even if a generation is calculated to be only 20 years, this would still be only about 66 actual generations that the first covenant lasted, definitely not a literal 1000 generations.


Psalm 50:10 For every beast of the forest is Mine, And the cattle on a thousand hills.

God owns all the cattle on all the hills. He does not own just the cattle on one thousand hills.

Psalm 90:4 For a thousand years in Your sight Are like yesterday when it is past, And like a watch in the night.


There have already been more than "one day of the Lord." Day of the Lord may mean "God's judgment." God used the enemies of Israel to punish Israel several times.



This is what you believe according to your interpretation, which may be in error.

Physical power, not spiritual power. Nothing happens on earth without Jesus' permissive will, which he uses for his own purposes for the salvation of as many people as possible.

Hebrews 7:26 For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens;

Hebrews 8:1 Now the crowning affirmation to what we are saying is this: we do have such a high priest, who has taken his seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven,

Colossians 3:1 Therefore if you have been raised with Christ, seek the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.

1 Corinthians 15:25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.

In context:

1 Corinthians 15:23-26 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.

At Jesus' second coming, when the faithful Christians on earth rise to meet Jesus in the air, death is defeated because these Christians' mortal bodies change to immortal bodies in the twinkling of an eye. 1 Corinthians 15:51-53


The patriarchs referenced in Hebrews 11 are part of the 24 elders who are worshipping God in heaven right now. They are reigning spiritually in heaven with Jesus, our King, presently. They are part of the "cloud of witnesses" watching over us on earth. Hebrews 12:1-3

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I wonder if you have put God in a box, so to speak. It seems, according to your post, that if God actually desired and CHOSE to write "1000 years" (one thousand years) He is not allowed to do that? (I understand, God used human's to do His writing.)

Do you believe everything that happens today is God's will being done in earth as His will is done in heaven?

iamlamad said:

I wonder if you have put God in a box, so to speak. It seems, according to your post, that if God actually desired and CHOSE to write "1000 years" (one thousand years) He is not allowed to do that? (I understand, God used human's to do His writing.)

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God didn't write ONE thousand years. He wrote A thousand years. These do not have the same meaning. The Jews do not view numbers the same way as many non-Jews do.

From Jewish Encyclopedia:

• Ten: Had a symbolical character in part because it is the basis of the decimal system, and in part because it is the sum of three and seven. Its simplest use is as a round number (Gen. xxiv. 10, 22; Josh. xxii. 14; Judges xvii. 10; et al.; comp. Lampronti, l.c. s.v.
  
  ). A more sacred use is found in the ritual (Ex. xxvi. 1, 16; Num. vii., xxviii., xxix.; I Kings vi., vii.; Ezek. xlv.; II Chron. iv.). Because of this sacred character "ten" is used in apocalyptic symbolism (Dan. vii. 7, 20, 24).Multiples of ten are used as round numbers: one hundred and two hundred, in Pes. 64b; et al.; one thousand, in Ḥul. 97b; Ned. 50b; Yer. Ta'an. iv. 8; ten thousand and two hundred thousand, in Yer. Ta'an. iv. 8; one million, in Yoma 33b.

iamlamad said:

Do you believe everything that happens today is God's will being done in earth as His will is done in heaven?

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Everything in heaven is perfect, so it is a manifestation of God's perfect will.

I think the people on the whole earth will soon experience a type of Exodus, and the evil-doers will be killed just as Pharaoh and his army were killed. The good people who are left behind will then serve God on earth as he desires to be served.

After a while, their descendants will fall away, and then the final antichrist will appear to seduce the Jews into believing he is their Messiah. This was prophesied by Jesus and also by some other prophets since then. John 5:41-43

iamlamad said:

I do have a question: how are YOU going to get to heaven for the marriage and supper?

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The Bible does not say the Marriage Supper will be held in heaven. It is illogical to think His bride will go there, when Jesus is coming here.