Is modern secular society headed down the path to Sodom and Gomorrah.

[stevevw]

Sex again.

Yes thats seems to be the preoccuptation of the new ideology within society. But like I said not just sex but identity which could mean any number of beliefs relating to sex, gender, race, language, politics, ect.

Language especially in that Post Modernist make language itself the new reality. Words are given truth power over reality to create reality. People are now destroyed by wrong speak and everyones afraid to utter the truth in fear of being cancelled.

This is a good example of how the new religion is undermining the long held western truths like free speech and belief.

Particularly the toxic mythology of Western Christian Culture.

What is the toxic mythology of Western Christian Culture. You seem to have a one sided view of history. All bad and nothing good.

 

[stevevw]

I stopped reading what you wrote. It is offtopic and much of what you write is wrong.

Not wrong according to the evidence (the science) and not off topic considering that this all started with me saying that humans have a natural inclination to believe in metaphysical ideas which you challenged. Of course it was going to divert into some discussion on this issue for me to then support that claim.

We can move on but I am not backing down from my claim that humans have a natural inclination to believe in metaphysical ideas beyond the objective world and that they have replaced God with secular ideas of gods and the supernatural.

 

[BCP1928]

Yes thats seems to be the preoccuptation of the new ideology within society.

It certainly is the preoccupation of many Christians within society, to the point of perversity. The libs were absolutely blindsided by it, they thought that letting LGBT people out of the closet would be no big deal. And who besides the Christian leadership in our Congress would have thought that showing enlarged photos on prime time TV of the President's son naked and having sex with a prostitute would somehow advance their agenda?

What is the toxic mythology of Western Christian Culture. You seem to have a one sided view of history. All bad and nothing good.

Not all bad, but not all good either. Just another human culture which by historical accident wound up with too much power.

 

[BCP1928]

Not wrong according to the evidence (the science) and not off topic considering that this all started with me saying that humans have a natural inclination to believe in metaphysical ideas which you challenged. Of course it was going to divert into some discussion on this issue for me to then support that claim.

We can move on but I am not backing down from my claim that humans have a natural inclination to believe in metaphysical ideas beyond the objective world

OK

and that they have replaced God with secular ideas of gods and the supernatural.

Who's "they?" Most people in this country remain quite religious, they're just getting sick of right-wing Evangelical Protestantism as the de facto state religion.

 

[stevevw]

It certainly is the preoccupation of many Christians within society, to the point of perversity.

Well I guess sex is the obvious barometer related to morality and a healthy society. So I guess its going to be a dominant issue for both sides. It is afterall something everyone is preoccupied with on a daily basis ie how we dress, behave, relate ect.

The libs were absolutely blindsided by it, they thought that letting LGBT people out of the closet would be no big deal. And who besides the Christian leadership in our Congress would have thought that showing enlarged photos on prime time TV of the President's son naked and having sex with a prostitute would somehow advance their agenda?

Of course how dare they think that this is inappropriate.

Not all bad, but not all good either. Just another human culture which by historical accident wound up with too much power.

Yes that is the key, that people have this tendency to be corrupted by power. The church no exception. But it doesn't negate that the true church of Christ came through the West and into the world. It didn't come through the Muslims, it didn't come through China or the many Asian nations, nor Africa or Russia. Christian truths and teachings were upheld by the west while the rest of the world went down other paths.

What is concerning is this new movement to tear down all things western based on some warped Marxist idea that the world is made up of oppressors and victims based on identity and not reality.

 

[stevevw]

OK

Who's "they?" Most people in this country remain quite religious, they're just getting sick of right-wing Evangelical Protestantism as the de facto state religion.

I am not from the US so we don't have this politicized version of Christianity. Like they say never mix politics and religion.

They are the new social consciousness in the public square. Christianity was part of the public square and now that has been completely removed and even attacked for speaking its truths. The attacks are coming from a new ideological position on belief about how society should be ordered and is every bit a belief as much as Christianity is.

As the video mentioned now God is made in the image of man.

 

[BCP1928]

Well I guess sex is the obvious barometer related to morality and a healthy society. So I guess its going to be a dominant issue for both sides. It is afterall something everyone is preoccupied with on a daily basis ie how we dress, behave, relate ect.

Creepy. Very creepy.

Of course how dare they think that this is inappropriate.

Yes that is the key, that people have this tendency to be corrupted by power. The church no exception. But it doesn't negate that the true church of Christ came through the West and into the world. It didn't come through the Muslims, it didn't come through China or the many Asian nations, nor Africa or Russia. Christian truths and teachings were upheld by the west while the rest of the world went down other paths.

What is concerning is this new movement to tear down all things western based on some warped Marxist idea that the world is made up of oppressors and victims based on identity and not reality.

And nothing to counter it with but spurious dreams of a vanished golden age.

 

[stevevw]

Creepy. Very creepy.

Actually I was referring to how our instincts cause us to behave in certain ways such as the cloths we wear, makeup, grooming and other behaviours that humans do related to sex instinct but not sex itself. They are the everyday behaviours related to our sex drive.

Thinking that its all about the act of sex itself is your take not mine lol.

And nothing to counter it with but spurious dreams of a vanished golden age.

No its the long held truth that the west discovered that will restore order and sanity. Like Freedom of speech and religion, equal rights and opportunity, Rule of law and Enlightened thinking.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Actually I was referring to how our instincts cause us to behave in certain ways such as the cloths we wear, makeup, grooming and other behaviours that humans do related to sex instinct but not sex itself. They are the everyday behaviours related to our sex drive.

The gendering of clothing, grooming, and adornments are completely cultural in nature.

 

[BCP1928]

Actually I was referring to how our instincts cause us to behave in certain ways such as the cloths we wear, makeup, grooming and other behaviours that humans do related to sex instinct but not sex itself. They are the everyday behaviours related to our sex drive.

That's how you measure the moral health of a society? By conformity to cultural norms surrounding sexual behavior which you happen to approve of? That's what I thought. It's creepy.

No its the long held truth that the west discovered that will restore order and sanity. Like Freedom of speech and religion, equal rights and opportunity, Rule of law and Enlightened thinking.

Well, good luck with that.

 

[stevevw]

I stopped reading what you wrote. It is offtopic and much of what you write is wrong.

So its off topic in my owm thread. I think I would know whats off topic or not in my own thread. For society to be headed down the road to S&G they need to have moved away from Gods order and to some other human made beliefs and gods about reality and how we should order ourselves and society.

This was challenged, that there is no now ideological belief that is guiding society. That God or beliefs don't even come into it. I made the claim that belief is natural and if its not God then its going to be some other metaphysical belief like paganism or Wokism or some other ideology.

That was challenged so I went about supplying the evidnece. That was challenged what else can I do. I was only following where the thread went naturally. You participated in each and every exchange and it was relevant for you then. But now I am supporting my claims its suddenly not relevant anymore.

Like I said I don't mind ending this particular offshoot related to the OP. But I am sticking to my claims that western secular society has taken on a new ideological belief or religion if you like as the basis for how we should order society. No society can be without a ideology behind how they see the world and reality.

It is this now ideology, call it what you like that is guiding secular society and its taking us down a path to destruction at this present time. Just as worse and perhaps even moreso that what any traditional religion has done.

 

[stevevw]

The gendering of clothing, grooming, and adornments are completely cultural in nature.

Your not see the big picture of the human being and their natural inclinations. Yes different cultures have different dress and grooming practices. But as humans a big part of why and how we dress, groom and behave in certain ways socially is driven by our sex drive as humans. Behind these practices and behaviours is our instinct to mate, to pass on our genes. Its probably the most powerful of our drives.

Its no coincident that much of how different cultures dress can be found in the extent to which coverings are less or more, full body covering in the extreme radical beliefs and barely any coverings in the more liberal and progressive cultures.

Just like cultures have different ways of expressing belief in the divine and supernatural. Though each culture expresses this differently the human aspect is that all cultures have this fundemental inclination to believe. That is the bigger picture the anthropological and sociological picture of how belief is a natural part of beling human.

 

[stevevw]

That's how you measure the moral health of a society? By conformity to cultural norms surrounding sexual behavior which you happen to approve of? That's what I thought. It's creepy.

No I was pointing our the natural inclinations of humans due to evolution. Theres nothing creepy about that. Morality is beyond natural instinct and involves our moral sense which humans also have a innate ability to know. This actually in most cases opposes following our animal instincts beyond what is moral. Theres a decernment and not just a blind following of our base instincts and desires.

But that is what I was pointing out earlier that as secular society has abandoned God and the Christian values they are like a ship without a rudder. So naturally humans without a moral compass or one based on human ideas will fall back on our base instincts and desires. Thats all that is left when we reject God.

That is why we are seeing the rise of wokeism, paganism, natural ideologies about nature and human nature being the gods. Worshipping sex, gender identity, race, and lifestyle and whatever else that makes nature and human nature gods. They are all fundementally the human expressions based on the distortion of our natural inclinations made into gods.

In fact if there is anything creepy going on its the twisted and pervertion of sex created by these new ideologies. When we get males dressed as women with sexual fetishes reading stories to our kids or the introduction of sexually inappropriate material to children in our eductation system or young people being celebrated for being sexually explouted thats creepy.

Well, good luck with that.

Theres no luck involved. In fact its because theres no luck, or ideology or personal opinions that its not based on luck but truth and the truth will always win out in the end. When we distort reality and Gods order it has a way of coming back to bite us and we are seeing this happen right now in society.

Whether that wakes people up is another thing as humans tend to rebel against God and will try everything else before submitting.

 

[Hans Blaster]

So its off topic in my owm thread.

And I got sick of the pointless back and forth. end.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Your not see the big picture of the human being and their natural inclinations. Yes different cultures have different dress and grooming practices. But as humans a big part of why and how we dress, groom and behave in certain ways socially is driven by our sex drive as humans. Behind these practices and behaviours is our instinct to mate, to pass on our genes. Its probably the most powerful of our drives.

The big picture is that gendered styles of dress are not an instinct.

Its no coincident that much of how different cultures dress can be found in the extent to which coverings are less or more, full body covering in the extreme radical beliefs and barely any coverings in the more liberal and progressive cultures.

Some cultures live in cold places others in hot places. It has a big impact in how covered up they are.

Just like cultures have different ways of expressing belief in the divine and supernatural. Though each culture expresses this differently the human aspect is that all cultures have this fundemental inclination to believe. That is the bigger picture the anthropological and sociological picture of how belief is a natural part of beling human.

I thought we weren't discussing that here.

 

[stevevw]

And I got sick of the pointless back and forth. end.

Fair enough, but you were happy enough to go along and buy in.

 

[BCP1928]

No I was pointing our the natural inclinations of humans due to evolution. Theres nothing creepy about that. Morality is beyond natural instinct and involves our moral sense which humans also have a innate ability to know. This actually in most cases opposes following our animal instincts beyond what is moral. Theres a decernment and not just a blind following of our base instincts and desires.

But that is what I was pointing out earlier that as secular society has abandoned God and the Christian values they are like a ship without a rudder. So naturally humans without a moral compass or one based on human ideas will fall back on our base instincts and desires. Thats all that is left when we reject God.

No, they are like a ship with a different rudder which may not steer them where you want them to go.

That is why we are seeing the rise of wokeism, paganism, natural ideologies about nature and human nature being the gods. Worshipping sex, gender identity, race, and lifestyle and whatever else that makes nature and human nature gods. They are all fundementally the human expressions based on the distortion of our natural inclinations made into gods.

In fact if there is anything creepy going on its the twisted and pervertion of sex created by these new ideologies. When we get males dressed as women with sexual fetishes reading stories to our kids or the introduction of sexually inappropriate material to children in our eductation system or young people being celebrated for being sexually explouted thats creepy.

Theres no luck involved. In fact its because theres no luck, or ideology or personal opinions that its not based on luck but truth and the truth will always win out in the end. When we distort reality and Gods order it has a way of coming back to bite us and we are seeing this happen right now in society.

From the way you go on about it, one might easily conclude that you are the one feeling bitten because people don't do sex the way you think they should.

Whether that wakes people up is another thing as humans tend to rebel against God and will try everything else before submitting.

Are they "rebelling against God" or merely dismissing your idea of God?

 

[stevevw]

The big picture is that gendered styles of dress are not an instinct.

That males want to dress masculine and females feminine is based on our instincts, our sex hormones ect. Gendered styles of dress is only one part of why we dress. Within the gengered styles are influences based on sex such as makeup and many styles are based around exentuating male and female figures.

Most people don't realise that for example high heels are designed to exentuate female mating strategies. The same with certain dress and colours, makeup ect. Red shades such as lipstick and blush signify mating as with other species such as birds and some primates. But even in courting the way we dress and and our body language is signalling mating strategies quite often in the way we posture, gesture and interact.

Wearing high heels as female mating strategy

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0191886919304908

Some cultures live in cold places others in hot places. It has a big impact in how covered up they are.

Of course thats for practical reasons of comfort and wellbeing. But still within these cultures they will have their own set of mating behaviours . It may be that a women wears particular beads and accessories or the way they wear their haor. The same with males.

Each culture may have different coverings or lack of but they all share certain mating strategies for which they incorporate. Thats the common human instinct regardless of culture. The same with religion and belief. If its not the Christian God then its another belief in gods, or nature or human nature or another human made godlike such as in Communist China that is the source for how life is ordered and morality.

I thought we weren't discussing that here.

Sorry I forgot you did not want to talk about that. But your happy to talk about clothing and culture which I thought would be even more irrelevant.

 

[BCP1928]

That males want to dress masculine and females feminine is based on our instincts, our sex hormones ect. Gendered styles of dress is only one part of why we dress. Within the gengered styles are influences based on sex such as makeup and many styles are based around exentuating male and female figures.

Most people don't realise that for example high heels are designed to exentuate female mating strategies. The same with certain dress and colours, makeup ect. Red shades such as lipstick and blush signify mating as with other species such as birds and some primates. But even in courting the way we dress and and our body language is signalling mating strategies quite often in the way we posture, gesture and interact.

Wearing high heels as female mating strategy

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0191886919304908

Of course thats for practical reasons of comfort and wellbeing. But still within these cultures they will have their own set of mating behaviours . It may be that a women wears particular beads and accessories or the way they wear their haor. The same with males.

Each culture may have different coverings or lack of but they all share certain mating strategies for which they incorporate. Thats the common human instinct regardless of culture. The same with religion and belief. If its not the Christian God then its another belief in gods, or nature or human nature or another human made godlike such as in Communist China that is the source for how life is ordered and morality.

Sorry I forgot you did not want to talk about that. But your happy to talk about clothing and culture which I thought would be even more irrelevant.

Right. But if we don't do it like Western Christian Culture dictates we're doing it wrong and giving in to our animal instincts and betraying the lack of moral health in our society.

 

[Hans Blaster]

That males want to dress masculine and females feminine is based on our instincts, our sex hormones ect. Gendered styles of dress is only one part of why we dress. Within the gengered styles are influences based on sex such as makeup and many styles are based around exentuating male and female figures.

Most people don't realise that for example high heels are designed to exentuate female mating strategies. The same with certain dress and colours, makeup ect. Red shades such as lipstick and blush signify mating as with other species such as birds and some primates. But even in courting the way we dress and and our body language is signalling mating strategies quite often in the way we posture, gesture and interact.

Certainly using clothing and adornment to make oneself look more attractive is a common human trait, but...

Wearing high heels as female mating strategy

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0191886919304908

Some people take those conclusions a *bit* too far. This leads to something a social commentator said several years ago about women not wearing makeup and heels to work as it would distract male coworkers. (What a twit!)

Of course thats for practical reasons of comfort and wellbeing. But still within these cultures they will have their own set of mating behaviours . It may be that a women wears particular beads and accessories or the way they wear their haor. The same with males.

Each culture may have different coverings or lack of but they all share certain mating strategies for which they incorporate. Thats the common human instinct regardless of culture.

People choose their manner of dress and grooming to send signals about many things including status, wealth, popularity, membership in a sub-culture or group, etc. (Mine must be signalling that I don't care.) What signals what or is popular is a matter of fashion and changes frequently.

The same with religion and belief. If its not the Christian God then its another belief in gods, or nature or human nature or another human made godlike such as in Communist China that is the source for how life is ordered and morality.

Religion as fashion? Even I wouldn't go that far.

Sorry I forgot you did not want to talk about that. But your happy to talk about clothing and culture which I thought would be even more irrelevant.

This is a thread on the moral decay of our society [I *think* we include antepodia in "society". ] not the nature of belief. Culture is actually on topic, belief isn't.