What did Christ say about the Law?

[ralliann]

How would one sin by obeying Love God, Love your Neighbor? They would not. I break nothing if I can do it. But if I dont do it, it is not bad because I broke a Law. It is bad because I did not love.

Every time one brings the Two back to the Law for modification, improvement, and jurisdiction, as you just did, you make the Law more important than the Two. Since the Two, the focus is no longer the Law. So stop refocusing on the Law. All that is needed is the Two.

We know the 10 were given specifically for the Israelites. Not the Gentiles.

The law of faith applies to Gentiles. The law Abraham kept...
& nations who had reached the fullness of sin....
Prohibitions to Gentiles retained in Mosaic law.......
Lev 18:24 Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you:
25 And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants.
26 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you:
27 (For all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled
28 That the land spue not you out also, when ye defile it, as it spued out the nations that were before you.

And Like the Jews tried to say Paul was short, it is Salvation + Circumcision, others here are saying it is the Two + all the laws. And if one is going to do that, one must be circumcised as well. Because one does not get to pick and choose the Law any more than one gets to cherry-pick verses. One cannot say, well, not that law, it was for the Jews. And now we are back under the law and must be circumcised. But Paul said No!

Two covenants Circumcision Abrahamic
Jo 7:22 Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.

The whole point of Jesus giving the two, and Paul saying no to + circumcision, was to not put more upon the Gentiles than needed, and to show the Jews how much more full it is under the Two without all the offerings, sacrifices, days, and sin around the Law.

Those who follow the Law, are judged by the Law.
Those who follow Grace and Love are judged through Grace and Love.

Not under the Law: The world is a huge circle with all things lawful to me, and a little circle in the center saying - Love. Because Agape Love is Perfect.
Under the Law: The world is a huge circle filled with don't do's, and a little circle that says - Only these things are allowed. Because the law was imperfect.

Yes. You don't know what I have sacrificed.

Peace and Blessings

The law covenant is how God judges the world. In Christ we have already died, already been judged, righteous by faith like Noah.

 

[Gary K]

It is not a contradiction, It is two covenants. the difference between the two.
Just one basic difference
Mosaic Concerns this world and this life.
Abrahamic/ Christian concerns the next world and the next life.
Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob......

Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

Again the same thing...
Acts7:3 And said unto him, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and come into the land which I shall shew thee.
4 Then came he out of the land of the Chaldaeans, and dwelt in Charran: and from thence, when his father was dead, he removed him into this land, wherein ye now dwell.
5 And he gave him none inheritance in it, no, not so much as to set his foot on: yet he promised that he would give it to him for a possession, and to his seed after him, when as yet he had no child.

Gen 15:15.......
Abraham dies....... The need for a resurrection is right here

Ge 15:15 And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.
Isaac, and Jacob, also will be dead........The covenant concerns the 4th generation of his seed...

16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.

Joseph knew this full well
Ex 1:6 And Joseph died, and all his brethren, and all that generation

What you are mixing is the promise made to the 4th Generation and the promise made to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob which is in the resurrection from the dead. Christ is made the firstborn of all the dead in Genesis 17

Hence the testing of Abraham's faith in Isaac
Heb 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

Faith according to hope.

Yes. People who lived in OT times lived by faith too. But there was a need for the resurrection thousands of years before Abraham's time. Adam and Eve need a resurrection too.

It was the Pharisees who lacked faith and many of the kings of Israel and Judah who lacked faith. So the controversy in the NT is about them and their lack of faith. Their insistence on their extremely violent form of legalism that led them to murder Jesus.

 

[Soyeong]

How would one sin by obeying Love God, Love your Neighbor? They would not. I break nothing if I can do it. But if I dont do it, it is not bad because I broke a Law. It is bad because I did not love.

Every time one brings the Two back to the Law for modification, improvement, and jurisdiction, as you just did, you make the Law more important than the Two. Since the Two, the focus is no longer the Law. So stop refocusing on the Law. All that is needed is the Two.

We know the 10 were given specifically for the Israelites. Not the Gentiles. And Like the Jews tried to say Paul was short, it is Salvation + Circumcision, others here are saying it is the Two + all the laws. And if one is going to do that, one must be circumcised as well. Because one does not get to pick and choose the Law any more than one gets to cherry-pick verses. One cannot say, well, not that law, it was for the Jews. And now we are back under the law and must be circumcised. But Paul said No!

The whole point of Jesus giving the two, and Paul saying no to + circumcision, was to not put more upon the Gentiles than needed, and to show the Jews how much more full it is under the Two without all the offerings, sacrifices, days, and sin around the Law.

Those who follow the Law, are judged by the Law.
Those who follow Grace and Love are judged through Grace and Love.

Not under the Law: The world is a huge circle with all things lawful to me, and a little circle in the center saying - Love. Because Agape Love is Perfect.
Under the Law: The world is a huge circle filled with don't do's, and a little circle that says - Only these things are allowed. Because the law was imperfect.

Yes. You don't know what I have sacrificed.

Peace and Blessings

It is contradictory to want to follow God's instructions to love while wanting nothing to do with following God's instructions for how to love. When God has taught the way to love by doing certain things and you refuse to follow His instructions for how to love because someone just wants to love instead of following a list of do's and don'ts for how to love, then that is sin. Jesus did not say that the focus is now on just the two greatest commandments rather than on the other commandments, but rather he said that all of the other commandments hang on them, so if we love God and our neighbor, then we will obey all of the other commandments. In Matthew 24:12-14, Jesus said that because of lawlessness the love of many will grow cold, which does not leave any room for thinking that we just need to love and are free to be lawless to the rest of the commandments.

The Mosaic Law was given to the Israelites for the purpose of equipping them to be a light and a blessing to the nations by turning the nations from their wickedness and teaching them to obey it in accordance with the promise and with spreading the Gospel. Saying that Gentiles should obey the greatest two commandments is not any more or less than saying that Gentiles should obey the Mosaic Law. Those who do not follow the law will perish without its which is not a preferable alternative. God is sovereign, so we are all under His law and are obligated to refrain from doing what it reveals to be sin. Our salvation is from sin and sin is the transgression of God's law, so the position that someone is not under God's law is the position that they do not need salvation or the Gospel message. God's law is perfect (Psalms 19:7).

 

[Soyeong]

No, they are unalike.
Paul speaks of the law of faith, vs law of works.
Ro 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
The law works wrath....
4:14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

The law of faith...... Which Abraham kept.......
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.

God is trustworthy, therefore His law is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so the way to trust God is by obeying His law, it is contradictory to think that we should trust God, but not His law, and the position that His law is not of faith is the position that God is unfaithful/untrustworthy.

In Acts 5:32, the Spirit has been given to those who obey God, so obedience to God is part of the way to receive the Spirit, however, Galatians 3:1-2 denies that "works of the law" are part of the way to receive the Spirit, therefore that phrase does not refer to obedience to God. In Romans 3:27-31, Paul contrasted a law of works with a law of faith, so works of the law are of works while he said that our faith upholds God's law, so it is of faith, and a law that our faith upholds can't be referring to the same thing as the works of the law that are not of faith in Galatians 3:10-12.

In Genesis 18:19, God knew Abraham that he would teach his children and those of his household to walk in His way by doing righteousness and justice that the Lord may bring to him all that He has promised. In Genesis 26:4-5, God will multiply Abraham's children as the stars in the heaven, to his children he will give all of these lands, and through his children all of the nations of the earth will be blessed because he heard God's voice and guarded His charge, His commandments, His statutes, and His laws. In Deuteronomy 30:16, if the children of Abraham will love God with all of their heart by walking in His way in obedience to His commandments, statutes, and laws, then they will live and multiply and God will bless them in the land that they go to possess. So the promise was made to Abraham and brought about because he walked in God's way in obedience to His law, he taught his children and those of his household to do that, and because they did that in obedience to the Mosaic Law.

In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know Him, so both Abraham were taught how to walk in God's way and taught others how to do that in accordance with spreading the Gospel. This is why Jesus said in John 8:39 that if they were children of Abraham, then they would be doing the same works as him. Likewise, in Psalms 119:1-3, the Mosaic Law was how the children of Abraham knew how to be blessed by walking in God's way, so the way that the children of Abraham are multiplied and are a blessing to the nations is by turning the nations from their wickedness and teaching them to do the same works as Abraham by walking in His way in obedience to His law in accordance with spreading the Gospel.

 

[ralliann]

God is trustworthy, therefore His law is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so the way to trust God is by obeying His law, it is contradictory to think that we should trust God, but not His law, and the position that His law is not of faith is the position that God is unfaithful/untrustworthy.

In Acts 5:32, the Spirit has been given to those who obey God, so obedience to God is part of the way to receive the Spirit, however, Galatians 3:1-2 denies that "works of the law" are part of the way to receive the Spirit, therefore that phrase does not refer to obedience to God. In Romans 3:27-31, Paul contrasted a law of works with a law of faith, so works of the law are of works while he said that our faith upholds God's law, so it is of faith, and a law that our faith upholds can't be referring to the same thing as the works of the law that are not of faith in Galatians 3:10-12.

In Genesis 18:19, God knew Abraham that he would teach his children and those of his household to walk in His way by doing righteousness and justice that the Lord may bring to him all that He has promised. In Genesis 26:4-5, God will multiply Abraham's children as the stars in the heaven, to his children he will give all of these lands, and through his children all of the nations of the earth will be blessed because he heard God's voice and guarded His charge, His commandments, His statutes, and His laws. In Deuteronomy 30:16, if the children of Abraham will love God with all of their heart by walking in His way in obedience to His commandments, statutes, and laws, then they will live and multiply and God will bless them in the land that they go to possess. So the promise was made to Abraham and brought about because he walked in God's way in obedience to His law, he taught his children and those of his household to do that, and because they did that in obedience to the Mosaic Law.

In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know Him, so both Abraham were taught how to walk in God's way and taught others how to do that in accordance with spreading the Gospel. This is why Jesus said in John 8:39 that if they were children of Abraham, then they would be doing the same works as him. Likewise, in Psalms 119:1-3, the Mosaic Law was how the children of Abraham knew how to be blessed by walking in God's way, so the way that the children of Abraham are multiplied and are a blessing to the nations is by turning the nations from their wickedness and teaching them to do the same works as Abraham by walking in His way in obedience to His law in accordance with spreading the Gospel.

We do not inherit the land of Israel. You are ignoring obeying covenant. You just keep bundling them together. Two covenants is what scripture teaches.

 

[TPop]

The law of faith applies to Gentiles. The law Abraham kept...
& nations who had reached the fullness of sin....
Prohibitions to Gentiles retained in Mosaic law.......
Lev 18:24 Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you:
25 And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants.
26 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you:
27 (For all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled
28 That the land spue not you out also, when ye defile it, as it spued out the nations that were before you.

The Jews, as Jesus's chosen people, have many things to boast about. One is that they were given the Law. Let them have it.
Paul had nothing to do with the Law except where it pointed to Salvation. Otherwise, he had no use for it.
If any law applies, all law applies.

It was a shadow of things to come. Just like the offerings that were part of the law. If you are under the law, you better start giving burnt, friendship, wave, and so many other offerings, and celebrate the feast days.

But Christians do not have to. We have Love. Love God. Love Neighbor. All else is fulfilled and done away with through these.

Two covenants Circumcision Abrahamic
Jo 7:22 Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.

The law covenant is how God judges the world. In Christ we have already died, already been judged, righteous by faith like Noah.

Christians have not already been judged. Christians will be judged based upon their Works and if they did them for Jesus or themselves. And those that did works for salvation will find themselves very disappointed.

Peace and Blessings

 

[TPop]

Every passage where people typically claim that Paul is teaching that the Torah is retired, (or whatever other way others might prefer to say the same thing), always ends up being a misunderstanding of Paul's words and teachings. What is the use of contorting the Matthew 5 statement into something metaphorical, in order to "take Paul at his word", if one has not actually understood Paul's words to begin with? In other words prove that your view of Paul's teachings is a correct view according to all of the scripture before making the assumption that your understanding is correct.

Paul used the Law in reference to Salvation. Otherwise, he had no use for it. The Law simply demonstrated to the Jews that they missed the target.

Peace and Blessings

 

[ralliann]

The Jews, as Jesus's chosen people, have many things to boast about. One is that they were given the Law. Let them have it.
Paul had nothing to do with the Law except where it pointed to Salvation. Otherwise, he had no use for it.
If any law applies, all law applies.

It was a shadow of things to come. Just like the offerings that were part of the law. If you are under the law, you better start giving burnt, friendship, wave, and so many other offerings, and celebrate the feast days.

But Christians do not have to. We have Love. Love God. Love Neighbor. All else is fulfilled and done away with through these.



Christians have not already been judged. Christians will be judged based upon their Works and if they did them for Jesus or themselves. And those that did works for salvation will find themselves very disappointed.

Peace and Blessings

We are judged righteous by faith
everything else I agree. The law of Moses was the law of that land.

 

[Gary K]

The Jews, as Jesus's chosen people, have many things to boast about. One is that they were given the Law. Let them have it.
Paul had nothing to do with the Law except where it pointed to Salvation. Otherwise, he had no use for it.
If any law applies, all law applies.

It was a shadow of things to come. Just like the offerings that were part of the law. If you are under the law, you better start giving burnt, friendship, wave, and so many other offerings, and celebrate the feast days.

But Christians do not have to. We have Love. Love God. Love Neighbor. All else is fulfilled and done away with through these.



Christians have not already been judged. Christians will be judged based upon their Works and if they did them for Jesus or themselves. And those that did works for salvation will find themselves very disappointed.

Peace and Blessings

Romans 1: 15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 10:
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

1Corinthians 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

Galatians 3: 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Colossians 3: 10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

Romans 2: 8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

Romans 2: 28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

It appears to me you are more than a tad bit confused. Paul most certainly didn't teach what you claim he did. It's all through his writings.

 

[TPop]

Romans 1: 15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Yes. Anyone can believe in Jesus and have salvation. Not related to OT Law.

Romans 10:
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Yes. Anyone can believe in Jesus and have salvation. Not related to OT Law.

1Corinthians 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

Yes. Anyone can believe in Jesus and have salvation. Not related to OT Law.

Galatians 3: 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Yes. In Jesus, we are all one. Got is not a respecter of persons. Anyone can believe in Him. Not related to OT Law.

Colossians 3: 10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

Yes. In Jesus, we are all one. Got is not a respecter of persons. Anyone can believe in Him. Not related to OT Law.

Romans 2: 8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

Yes. In Jesus, we are all one. Got is not a respecter of persons. Anyone can believe in Him. Not related to OT Law.

Romans 2: 28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

We are all one in Jesus. Anyone can believe in Him. Not related to OT Law.

It appears to me you are more than a tad bit confused. Paul most certainly didn't teach what you claim he did. It's all through his writings.

No such point has been made.

Peace and Blessings

 

[Gary K]

Yes. Anyone can believe in Jesus and have salvation. Not related to OT Law.



Yes. Anyone can believe in Jesus and have salvation. Not related to OT Law.



Yes. Anyone can believe in Jesus and have salvation. Not related to OT Law.



Yes. In Jesus, we are all one. Got is not a respecter of persons. Anyone can believe in Him. Not related to OT Law.



Yes. In Jesus, we are all one. Got is not a respecter of persons. Anyone can believe in Him. Not related to OT Law.



Yes. In Jesus, we are all one. Got is not a respecter of persons. Anyone can believe in Him. Not related to OT Law.



We are all one in Jesus. Anyone can believe in Him. Not related to OT Law.



No such point has been made.

Peace and Blessings

So, no difference between Jew and Gentile means a huge difference between Jew and Gentile? One has to keep the 10 commandments and the other doesn't.

Edit:

How does the following fit with your beliefs.

Romans 4: 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

 

[daq]

Paul used the Law in reference to Salvation. Otherwise, he had no use for it. The Law simply demonstrated to the Jews that they missed the target.

Peace and Blessings

Unproven assertions are meaningless to me.

 

[TPop]

So, no difference between Jew and Gentile means a huge difference between Jew and Gentile? One has to keep the 10 commandments and the other doesn't.

Edit:

How does the following fit with your beliefs.

Romans 4: 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

A Jew, post at least 70 AD, is now with a choice. Grace or Law.

There is no difference between Jews and Gentiles in their opportunity to receive the gift of Salvation through Grace. If you want to stay under OT law, you are or are trying to be a Jew. If you are a Jew under the Gospel and Love God Love Neighbor, through Grace, you are a completed Jew; or known as a Christian.

[Rom 4:1-8 KJV] 1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath [whereof] to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, 7 [Saying], Blessed [are] they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8 Blessed [is] the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

This means that those who receive Salvation through Grace and do not count upon works as part of their Salvation, are righteous before Jesus.

Abraham was not saved by his flesh/works. He was saved by his faith. The Faith of the Son in the Father.
[Rev 2:12-14 KJV] 12 And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges; 13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, [even] where Satan's seat [is]: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas [was] my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth. 14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

All one must do to be saved is to Believe the Gospel and put their faith in Jesus. Period. Everything that comes after cannot threaten that Eternal Salvation, nor take it away. All works are a byproduct of Salvation.

This is why:

"...repent of your sins and be saved..."​

"...ask Jesus into your heart and be saved..."​

"...stop sinning and be saved..."​

"...etc...."​

​

Are so evil. They block people from coming to Jesus because no one as a new not even Christian yet can hope to be successful in this. Same with the OT law. A burden, placed upon people, by other people. Not Jesus. The ramifications are huge. It is not just trying to understand verses. It is harmonizing them with the entirety of scripture and understanding the ramifications of going in certain directions. OT Law is a perfect example. Leave it behind. It does not make one evil. It places one more in the trust of Jesus' work and not our own.​

Peace and Blessings

 

[TPop]

We are judged righteous by faith
everything else I agree. The law of Moses was the law of that land.

Christians are Righteous because of the Works of Jesus. One of them being His Faith in the Father. We are righteous because of Jesus. Not because of us or anything we have done.

Satan accuses all of us before the Father continually. Jesus intercedes for us continually. Satan Says "Tpop sinned in this way..." Jesus say "Yes, but I laid my life down for him and he is covered by My Blood." And the Father accounts us as righteous because of his Son's Righteousness.

[Rev 2:13 KJV] 13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, [even] where Satan's seat [is]: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas [was] my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.

If you stand on your own faith and your own righteousness you may just find yourself in a dangerous position. I sincerely ask you to consider this.
Much easier, safer, to stand on the Foundation of Jesus' Faith. I never question the Son's faith in the father. Never!

Peace and Blessings

 

[Gary K]

A Jew, post at least 70 AD, is now with a choice. Grace or Law.

There is no difference between Jews and Gentiles in their opportunity to receive the gift of Salvation through Grace. If you want to stay under OT law, you are or are trying to be a Jew. If you are a Jew under the Gospel and Love God Love Neighbor, through Grace, you are a completed Jew; or known as a Christian.

[Rom 4:1-8 KJV] 1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath [whereof] to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, 7 [Saying], Blessed [are] they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8 Blessed [is] the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

This means that those who receive Salvation through Grace and do not count upon works as part of their Salvation, are righteous before Jesus.

Abraham was not saved by his flesh/works. He was saved by his faith. The Faith of the Son in the Father.
[Rev 2:12-14 KJV] 12 And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges; 13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, [even] where Satan's seat [is]: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas [was] my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth. 14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

All one must do to be saved is to Believe the Gospel and put their faith in Jesus. Period. Everything that comes after cannot threaten that Eternal Salvation, nor take it away. All works are a byproduct of Salvation.

This is why:

"...repent of your sins and be saved..."​

"...ask Jesus into your heart and be saved..."​

"...stop sinning and be saved..."​

"...etc...."​

​

Are so evil. They block people from coming to Jesus because no one as a new not even Christian yet can hope to be successful in this. Same with the OT law. A burden, placed upon people, by other people. Not Jesus. The ramifications are huge. It is not just trying to understand verses. It is harmonizing them with the entirety of scripture and understanding the ramifications of going in certain directions. OT Law is a perfect example. Leave it behind. It does not make one evil. It places one more in the trust of Jesus' work and not our own.​

Peace and Blessings

How do you figure God is so unjust that He puts such heavy burdens on people with His laws that no one can keep them? That's a total denial of scripture.

 

[TPop]

Unproven assertions are meaningless to me.

Good luck. Some things are not found in a verse. But throughout scripture and harmonizing verses to get to the truth without unintended consequences one knows can't be true. Read Pauls writings to get there.

Peace and Blessings.

 

[TPop]

How do you figure God is so unjust that He puts such heavy burdens on people with His laws that no one can keep them? That's a total denial of scripture.

Hello,

1. When you say God is unjust, because of your feelings, I don't have much to say.
2. God is never unjust. Please don't put words in my mouth I did not present.
3. OT Law put a heavy burden on people. It was to keep them in line, within God's framework, to keep them out of trouble, and to bless them.
4. No one kept the OT laws. No one could. That is why there were sacrifices.
5. Is the inability of man to keep God's laws new to you?
6. Failure of God's laws started in the Garden.

Peace and Blessings.

 

[ralliann]

Christians are Righteous because of the Works of Jesus.

Yes, our faith in Christ

One of them being His Faith in the Father. We are righteous because of Jesus. Not because of us or anything we have done.

Yes, even faith is not of ourselves.

Satan accuses all of us before the Father continually. Jesus intercedes for us continually. Satan Says "Tpop sinned in this way..." Jesus say "Yes, but I laid my life down for him and he is covered by My Blood." And the Father accounts us as righteous because of his Son's Righteousness.

[Rev 2:13 KJV] 13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, [even] where Satan's seat [is]: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas [was] my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.

If you stand on your own faith and your own righteousness you may just find yourself in a dangerous position. I sincerely ask you to consider this.
Much easier, safer, to stand on the Foundation of Jesus' Faith. I never question the Son's faith in the father. Never!

Peace and Blessings

It is God who gives us our faith.

 

[ralliann]

Yes. People who lived in OT times lived by faith too. But there was a need for the resurrection thousands of years before Abraham's time. Adam and Eve need a resurrection too.

It was the Pharisees who lacked faith and many of the kings of Israel and Judah who lacked faith. So the controversy in the NT is about them and their lack of faith. Their insistence on their extremely violent form of legalism that led them to murder Jesus.

They had no fear of God, and unjustly judged Christ.

 

[TPop]

Yes, our faith in Christ

Yes, even faith is not of ourselves.

It is God who gives us our faith.

Hello my friend,

You are still pointing back to yourself. We partake of Jesus' righteousness. It is none of our own doing.

Let it just be as you state "Yes, even faith is not of ourselves."

Jesus never glorified Himself and He Is God. Lets not hang on to some fraction of Glory for ourselves. Mirror Jesus.

Peace and Blessings.