How many Gentiles and Samaritans could have been saved if Jesus would have sent some disciples there?

[biblelesson]

The argument I get from many is that Jesus loves everyone the same, and wants none to perish. But even in your statement, that idea cannot be born out due to the fact that even in His earthly ministry He didn’t try to save everyone.

I want to add this:

No one on earth could have been saved and offered eternal life, from the time of Adam to the time before Jesus death.

Everyone who died before Jesus either went to Abraham’s bosom, or hades.

Those in Abraham’s Bosom, Luke 16:22, had to wait for Jesus to release them. He released them when He died on the cross - Matthew 27:52, Ephesians 4:9. Now that Jesus has died for our sins, we no longer go to Abraham’s Bosom, but our souls go directly to Jesus.

Those who go to hades, has to wait for the white throne judgement.

Remember the Bible said the angels disputed over Moses’s body. Satan wanted to take Moses to hades, but Michael the Arc Angel disputed with Satan over the body of Moses, Jude 1:9.

This also tells us that the angels, on one side or the other, takes us to the place we are to go after we die.

 

[zoidar]

That doesn’t go against my argument.

Isn't the question really why God didn't make it so that everyone gets the gospel?

 

[zoidar]

Okay, so let’s go back to this.

But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.
— John 10:26

We have two options. Either everyone is a sheep, and these particular men are not part of His flock, or they are something other than sheep. Which way do you want to land?

Ok, I will play along. Let's say then they are goats.

 

[biblelesson]

That doesn’t go against my argument.

Isn't the question really why God didn't make it so that everyone gets the gospel?

So, the question is why did the disciples not go to the Gentiles. Looking at Matthew 10:1-6, Jesus sent them to proclaim the kingdom, and heal the sick, and cast out devils, but not to the Gentiles. Again, Gentiles were not under the law that existed at that time, and the law could not be broken. Jesus was not going to break His Father’s law. However, he brought about a new law to include the Gentiles due to his love and mercy; so he died for all to accomplish this.

Then he sent Paul to the Gentiles.

If you want to still know why during Jesus life he did not send the disciples to the Gentiles, then you beef is with God’s law that Jesus would not even dishonor?
The pot cannot question the potter, Isaiah 45:9-11, Romans 9:21.

 

[Hammster]

I want to add this:

No one on earth could have been saved and offered eternal life, from the time of Adam to the time before Jesus death.

Everyone who died before Jesus either went to Abraham’s bosom, or hades.

Those in Abraham’s Bosom, Luke 16:22, had to wait for Jesus to release them. He released them when He died on the cross - Matthew 27:52, Ephesians 4:9. Now that Jesus has died for our sins, we no longer go to Abraham’s Bosom, but our souls go directly to Jesus.

Those who go to hades, has to wait for the white throne judgement.

Remember the Bible said the angels disputed over Moses’s body. Satan wanted to take Moses to hades, but Michael the Arc Angel disputed with Satan over the body of Moses, Jude 1:9.

This also tells us that the angels, on one side or the other, takes us to the place we are to go after we die.

That doesn’t have anything to do with my argument, really.

 

[Hammster]

Ok, I will play along. Let's say then they are goats.

Are all men goats before salvation? Or just those who won’t believe? That determines where I go from here.

 

[Hammster]

Isn't the question really why God didn't make it so that everyone gets the gospel?

Basically, yes, if He really desired that no one perish.

 

[Hammster]

So, the question is why did the disciples not go to the Gentiles. Looking at Matthew 10:1-6, Jesus sent them to proclaim the kingdom, and heal the sick, and cast out devils, but not to the Gentiles. Again, Gentiles were not under the law that existed at that time, and the law could not be broken. Jesus was not going to break His Father’s law. However, he brought about a new law to include the Gentiles due to his love and mercy; so he died for all to accomplish this.

Then he sent Paul to the Gentiles.

If you want to still know why during Jesus life he did not send the disciples to the Gentiles, then you beef is with God’s law that Jesus would not even dishonor?
The pot cannot question the potter, Isaiah 45:9-11, Romans 9:21.

I have no beef, as I’ve already explained in a previous post where you said I have a beef.

 

[biblelesson]

I have no beef, as I’ve already explained in a previous post where you said I have a beef.

I apologize if I misunderstood you! I was looking at the whole of salvation for all to include the Gentiles. There was an appointed time for Jesus to die and his death was to solve the sin problem for all. During his earthly ministry he was bound by the law of Moses, but upon his death he abolished the requirements of the law of Moses so that those outside the Jews could also be saved. But he could not do it until his death, therefore he in no way neglected to offer the gospel to anyone - the gospel’s power to salvation did not come into full force until his death, Hebrews 9:16-17.

So even if the disciples proclaimed the Kingdom only to the Jews at that time, the Jews could not even receive salvation until Jesus died and brought in the New Testament.

 

[zoidar]

I apologize if I misunderstood you! I was looking at the whole of salvation for all to include the Gentiles. There was an appointed time for Jesus to die and his death was to solve the sin problem for all. During his earthly ministry he was bound by the law of Moses, but upon his death he abolished the requirements of the law of Moses so that those outside the Jews could also be saved. But he could not do it until his death, therefore he in no way neglected to offer the gospel to anyone - the gospel’s power to salvation did not come into full force until his death, Hebrews 9:16-17.

So even if the disciples proclaimed the Kingdom only to the Jews at that time, the Jews could not even receive salvation until Jesus died and brought in the New Testament.

Not that I want go against what you say, but how could Jesus also heal Gentiles, if he was bound to the Law of Moses? He did that on a few occations.

 

[zoidar]

Basically, yes, if He really desired that no one perish.

God chose to do it this way. Why? I don't know why. He had His reasons. This is one of many "why?" - questions.

 

[zoidar]

Are all men goats before salvation? Or just those who won’t believe? That determines where I go from here.

There is one possible answer. Everyone is born sheep, but when they reach the age of accountabilty, and have no faith, they become goats.

 

[biblelesson]

Not that I want go against what you say, but how could Jesus also heal Gentiles, if he was bound to the Law of Moses? He did that on a few occations.

Yes he did because it was Jesus doing the healing. He was actually healing and teaching about the changes in the law that was to take place upon His death. For example, he taught that instead of the 10 Commandments, now on just two hang all the laws, Matthew 22:37-39, “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.”

Jesus taught the Kingdom of Heaven to everyone, especially in the Beatitudes because it applied to all.

But when he sent his disciples out, he knew they were under the law of Moses and he knew they could not break the law.

 

[John Mullally]

The argument I get from many is that Jesus loves everyone the same, and wants none to perish.

1 Timothy 2:4 says that God wants all people to be saved.

But even in your statement, that idea cannot be born out due to the fact that even in His earthly ministry He didn’t try to save everyone.

I don't presume on God's timing - as in why weren't thngs done earlier. The Great Commission did not start until after the resurrection. Evangelism of Gentiles did not begin for another 7 years. I believe 1 Corinthians 2:8 and man's rebellion were factors for that. Man's rebellion caused the Exodus to take 40 years to complete, when it was an 11 day journey.

If God does not try to save everyone, then why did Christ make atonement for everyone (1 Timothy 2:6, 1 John 2:2).

Christ's universal atonement is conditionally received - it is received by faith​

Excuse me for repeating myself, but I anticipate questions will arise that I want to head off - like: If God desires all to be saved, why aren't they?

Since Jesus took upon Himself the “sin of the world,” (John 1:29), His atonement is therefore available to all, though is only applied whenever people place their faith in Him, just like His illustration at John 3:14-15 of Numbers 21:6-9 shows. Before a person looked upon the serpent on a standard, was anyone healed? Before a person believes in Jesus, is anyone saved? God Himself established the condition, but Calvinists seek to revise God’s condition to imply that the atonement itself completes a transaction, in which the atonement itself does something to the individual which produces faith.

John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.​

​

Number 21:8 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and it shall be that everyone who is bitten, when he looks at it, shall live.” 9 So Moses made a bronze serpent, and put it on a pole; and so it was, if a serpent had bitten anyone, when he looked at the bronze serpent, he lived.​

 

[Hammster]

God chose to do it this way. Why? I don't know why. He had His reasons. This is one of many "why?" - questions.

That’s one step closer to the Reformed view.

 

[Hammster]

There is one possible answer. Everyone is born sheep, but when they reach the age of accountabilty, and have no faith, they become goats.

If that’s the case, then Jesus died for no one since He didn’t die for goats, according to Him.

 

[Hammster]

I don't presume on God's timing - as in why weren't thngs done earlier. The Great Commission did not start until after the resurrection. Evangelism of Gentiles did not begin for another 7 years.

Then I don’t see how you can reconcile this with 1 Timothy 2:4.

 

[zoidar]

That’s one step closer to the Reformed view.

Maybe, but the reason He chose to it this way is not because He doesn't want to see everyone repent and be saved, because He does.

 

[Hammster]

Maybe, but the reason He chose to it this way is not because He doesn't want to see everyone repent and be saved, because He does.

Actually, it’s just the elect.

 

[zoidar]

If that’s the case, then Jesus died for no one since He didn’t die for goats, according to Him.

I meant if they don't believe as they have reached the age of accountability.

You are missing that whoever can become a sheep.