From WOF to simplicity

[Truthfrees]

If people declare themselves anointed, that is not the same as the Lord anointing someone. We all have the Holy Spirit within us and the strength of our Savior, Jesus Christ.

Exactly.

We're all the LORD'S anointed, because the LORD has put HIS SPIRIT and HIS heart in us. (Ezekiel 36:27, 11:19, Hebrews 10:16, 8:10)

We're the dwelling place of the HOLY SPIRIT if we're born of the SPIRIT, saved. (1 Corinthians 6:19)

Even when we mess up, we're still the LORD'S anointed because of HIS HOLY SPIRIT and HIS heart in us continues to work on us to change us to conform to HIS image.

The LORD will straighten us out when we mess up. (Hebrews 12:2)

The LORD alone gets the glory.

We get all the blessing.

"The lesser is blessed by the greater." - Hebrew 7:7

 

[Alive_Again]

If people declare themselves anointed, that is not the same as the Lord anointing someone. We all have the Holy Spirit within us and the strength of our Savior, Jesus Christ.

Can you imagine what it would be like if the Lord was ministering somewhere. He took someone with Him when He ministered. He wanted to touch some people along a path and (within earshot) one of the believers said, "They all claim to be anointed!" "I'm not so sure!" "I get a funny feeling about that one!"

How about if the Lord wanted to touch a group of old ladies in one place and someone said afterward, "They had their money stolen from them!" (They gave willingly.)

So... the Lord and His minister were ministering and someone started to curse them (with just the usual flack the world does, but we know it as a curse), and someone announced they would receive a curse for speaking against what the Lord is working, OR... inversely a blessing for blessing the work of God. But they only heard THE CURSE.

How many precedents do we have in the Word from someone rising up against what God was dong and who He was doing it through. God didn't like it then and even though you have a different Blood Covenant, He still doesn't like it. God never changed just because we have a different covenant.

The Cathars used to believe that the Jehovah in the Bible was a different God than the New Testament God. He seems so different! He's the same. When warnings go forth about not speaking against the servants of God, they should be given heed to.

Those same servants do make mistakes sometimes, and of course God does not confirm that which is not of His Word with signs. He takes care of the justice system, not us.

Sometimes we are uneasy about certain doctrines (for good reason). So if we are given space in the spirit to share that, it's not about the person, it's about the doctrine. If the person needs dealing with, God raises up people to do that. It's not a "gauntlet" a minister has to run just to go minister somewhere. We're called to lay down our own criticisms.

So it boils down to is it the new man in love expressing a judgment you're receiving, and is it the old man rising up to discredit? And we are within earshot of the King.

 

[Andrea411]

Can you imagine what it would be like if the Lord was ministering somewhere. He took someone with Him when He ministered. He wanted to touch some people along a path and (within earshot) one of the believers said, "They all claim to be anointed!" "I'm not so sure!" "I get a funny feeling about that one!"

How about if the Lord wanted to touch a group of old ladies in one place and someone said afterward, "They had their money stolen from them!" (They gave willingly.)

So... the Lord and His minister were ministering and someone started to curse them (with just the usual flack the world does, but we know it as a curse), and someone announced they would receive a curse for speaking against what the Lord is working, OR... inversely a blessing for blessing the work of God. But they only heard THE CURSE.

How many precedents do we have in the Word from someone rising up against what God was dong and who He was doing it through. God didn't like it then and even though you have a different Blood Covenant, He still doesn't like it. God never changed just because we have a different covenant.

The Cathars used to believe that the Jehovah in the Bible was a different God than the New Testament God. He seems so different! He's the same. When warnings go forth about not speaking against the servants of God, they should be given heed to.

Those same servants do make mistakes sometimes, and of course God does not confirm that which is not of His Word with signs. He takes care of the justice system, not us.

Sometimes we are uneasy about certain doctrines (for good reason). So if we are given space in the spirit to share that, it's not about the person, it's about the doctrine. If the person needs dealing with, God raises up people to do that. It's not a "gauntlet" a minister has to run just to go minister somewhere. We're called to lay down our own criticisms.

So it boils down to is it the new man in love expressing a judgment you're receiving, and is it the old man rising up to discredit? And we are within earshot of the King.

That is a really good thought... within earshot of the King... thanks, God bless, andrea

 

[ToBeBlessed]

Can you imagine what it would be like if the Lord was ministering somewhere. He took someone with Him when He ministered. He wanted to touch some people along a path and (within earshot) one of the believers said, "They all claim to be anointed!" "I'm not so sure!" "I get a funny feeling about that one!"

How about if the Lord wanted to touch a group of old ladies in one place and someone said afterward, "They had their money stolen from them!" (They gave willingly.)

So... the Lord and His minister were ministering and someone started to curse them (with just the usual flack the world does, but we know it as a curse), and someone announced they would receive a curse for speaking against what the Lord is working, OR... inversely a blessing for blessing the work of God. But they only heard THE CURSE.

How many precedents do we have in the Word from someone rising up against what God was dong and who He was doing it through. God didn't like it then and even though you have a different Blood Covenant, He still doesn't like it. God never changed just because we have a different covenant.

The Cathars used to believe that the Jehovah in the Bible was a different God than the New Testament God. He seems so different! He's the same. When warnings go forth about not speaking against the servants of God, they should be given heed to.

Those same servants do make mistakes sometimes, and of course God does not confirm that which is not of His Word with signs. He takes care of the justice system, not us.

Sometimes we are uneasy about certain doctrines (for good reason). So if we are given space in the spirit to share that, it's not about the person, it's about the doctrine. If the person needs dealing with, God raises up people to do that. It's not a "gauntlet" a minister has to run just to go minister somewhere. We're called to lay down our own criticisms.

So it boils down to is it the new man in love expressing a judgment you're receiving, and is it the old man rising up to discredit? And we are within earshot of the King.

We have the right and are expected to test what is being said against the Bible. That is not judgement. I understand with your Wof background you never speak a negative thing as you believe it brings it into existence for you, but not all or most Christians believe Wof doctrine.

 

[Andrea411]

Great points.

I have an excellent wof Pastor who lets everyone participate on an equal plane.

He treats a church service like it's a ministry training center.

IOW, he helps us grow in our calling, and gives us a safe place to practice each time we have a gathering.

The offerings are prayed over, and the LORD directs the use of the money, not one man.

I do understand what you mean by a one man show, and only the Pastor prospers.

I've been a member in churches where pew warmer is all most people are allowed to do.

A few get to minister in a limited capacity as the "one man" allows.

These Pastors don't seem to realize their job is to equip us for the work of ministry.

IOW, we're called by the LORD to be ministers too. Church should be like a ministry training center, a worship and prayer center, a seek-the-LORD-and-HIS-will center.

"And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ. " - Ephesians 4:11-13

I wish everyone had a wof Pastor like mine.

He's helped me grow in WOF. When I get stuck (things don't seem to work as per the scripture promises), he has a a gift from the LORD to see what I'm doing or believing wrong. I follow his anointed instructions, and I get unstuck.

Where is that church... its the one i've been looking for...

ugh... I have had some good pastors but they all run the church like it was their private school and we students have to learn whatever the teacher tells us is truth and if we disagree we keep it to ourselves... ugh ugh ugh

 

[Truthfrees]

Where is that church... its the one i've been looking for...

ugh... I have had some good pastors but they all run the church like it was their private school and we students have to learn whatever the teacher tells us is truth and if we disagree we keep it to ourselves... ugh ugh ugh

Sad but true.

Before I found the wof Pastor I now have, home gatherings and online teachings from the wof teachers the LORD told me to listen to were what helped me the most.

 

[Truthfrees]

We have the right and are expected to test what is being said against the Bible. That is not judgement.

Absolutely correct.

I understand with your Wof background you never speak a negative thing as you believe it brings it into existence for you, but not all or most Christians believe Wof doctrine.

The problem is we each have a religious background which has shaped our INTERPRETATION of scripture.

So what do we do when we disagree on the INTERPRETATION?

Judge the other person's religious background, favorite teachers, motives, character, etc?

We need to find a better way to have an indepth discussion on our different theologies WITHOUT it disintegrating into judging people and groups.

It's true wof believe Mark 11:22-24 concerning the power of words.

But we should still be able to find a way to discuss our different theologies (scripture interpretations) without judging people or groups.

 

[Truthfrees]

Like me, many of the Christians I know came to the Lord without a reading history. They just weren't readers, and the first book they actually took time to read was the Bible. That desire came from being saved and hungering for spiritual nourishment.

Like me, they had no former training to lead them. We were just a bunch of youthful Jesus people of the 70s. Then, from among us rose several "leaders." We knew very little, so what was it that these men taught? Where did these men gain their particular knowledge to share to seekers in those days? All of it came from owning the largest cassette tape libraries from which they memorized sermons from Copeland and other WOF camps, as well as other error ridden teachings that came out of Ft. Lauderdale's Sheep/Shepherding or Discipleship dynasty: Bob Mumford, Derek Prince, Charles Simpson, Don Basham, and another couple of them.

Not one of those self appointed leaders received any "revelation." Instead, they just spouted from their large library of WOF and Mumford cassette their nightly messages to young men and women whose time was spent struggling to maintain food on their tables.

Real work was hard to come by on the beach in those days, and still is. Most guys worked construction: hanging drywall, painting, masonry, etc. The pastor, himself, was once a janitor at the local naval base. So, from among us existed an extraordinary lack of general knowledge. Only a handful attended college, which is what I did, by hitchhiking my way to classes.

To hear someone tell us that gaining riches was as easy as giving to God through whoever it was stood before us, well, we had to go for it. Even if we didn't have anything more than a quarter in our pockets, we gave what we could in hopes of gaining a hundredfold increase. Soon, we were told, houses, cars, and those cattle on a thousand hills would begin to manifest in abundance.

One year passed, then another, then another, and still not one sign of that increase manifested to anyone of us. Oh, the pastors were doing well, it was easy to see. Being unable to give much, as I was a struggling college student, I was almost unnoticed, and never was I drawn by invitation into any of the cliques that always arose out of those fellowships. If I couldn't give, I couldn't give, but I did know how to play a standup bass, which I did, during worship.

More years passed, I'd completed my degree and was working on my Masters, when I joined a large group that met in an elementary school gymnasium. By then, I had a better job and was able to give more, which WAS noticed by my new young pastor. What a difference that made! I was greeted when I walked into the meeting like an old pal. No longer was I unfit to fit in. Yep, with a firm handshake and a hug I was welcomed with smiles, and was even asked to lead adult Sunday school.

See the difference? Notice how money makes that difference? Believe me, it does, and it will forever. This is why it is best to meet in each others homes, without expectation, without a one man show, and without a list of bills to pay. This way there is less judgment of anyone. Everyone meets on an equal plane.

I've experienced a lot of this too. The good and the bad. The only difference is most of my trouble was pre-wof, and most of my successes are because of wof. But I now understand better why you would say things about wof. I'm truly sorry for the trouble you've experienced.

Testimony:
The LORD told me several times:
Listen to the teachers and teachings I tell you to, study the scriptures, then ask ME what I want you to do with what you heard.

Before I learned this I had a lot of failure.

The angels are assigned the job of making the LORD'S words come to pass, not man's ideas. (Psalm 103:20).

The 100 fold return is in scripture, but I don't know from the LORD how to act on it yet.

Is the scripture true?

YES. I know the LORD is right and everyone of HIS words is true.

Do I know how to walk it out?

Not yet.

I'll act as soon as the LORD tells me how to do it.

In the past I did what preachers said to do, and it quite often didn't work.

Now I let preachers point out scripture, explain how it worked for them, and then ask the LORD about HIS words and explanation, and most important: WHAT HE WANTS me to do.

IOW, NOW preachers inspire me, the LORD instructs and leads me.

In the past I had it backwards: The LORD inspired me, the preachers instructed and led me. That REALLY didn't work out very well for me.

 

[Truthfrees]

Another thing I learned from your testimony is a Pastor has such a great influence over people.

Thank the LORD for good Pastors who truly help their people, not use them.

Thank the LORD for good home groups who follow the LORD and help people who can't find a good Pastor.

 

[Andrea411]

Another thing I learned from your testimony is a Pastor has such a great influence over people.

Thank the LORD for good Pastors who truly help their people, not use them.

Thank the LORD for good home groups who follow the LORD and help people who can't find a good Pastor.

I have been blessed in so many ways by trusting the Lord when I gave or when I could not, He has given 100 return but I can not and will not use the lord like a bank acct or a lottery. I know that WoF is serious business and it gets the bad rap bc people say... give me $77 on 7/7/77 or something and make a mockery of the word. When I give I give in faith, the Lord gives me what I need. I have testimony after testimony how He made a way for us to have a house worth nearly a million $ for 160.000. I was trusting Him to make a way that we could get the house so when the plumbing froze and the house was covered in a blue fungus bc it was winter and it didn't dry properly, no one wanted the house. What no one knew was the house was all cedar and the fungus was killed with simple bleach.
We had no way of knowing that the disaster that blew out the plumbing and cracked all the old cast iron radiators was the Lord's way of getting us our dream house.
AS a new Christian when the Bakkers were saying give $1000 for a lifetime membership to thieir theme park and God will do such and such.. when I went to write that check.. it felt so disrespectful to give so that God would give me cash. I ask for the important things, peace in my home, health, and love. We have all that and much more.
If a person gives to get... the Lord isn't mocked, He reads hearts.... I try to be honest before the Lord and if I know my hearts not right, I give that to Him too.
God bless, andrea

 

[ToBeBlessed]

The problem is we each have a religious background which has shaped our INTERPRETATION of scripture.

So what do we do when we disagree on the INTERPRETATION?
.

I don't feel there is much interpretation to be done. I think most come in with their favorite beliefs. I read the Word. All I base my Christian walk is the Holy Spirit and the Word.

If you read it w/o a slant and look for the meaning most of the time it is right there.

If you read openly not trying to prove any doctrine I don't find most of it hard or open to that much interpretation

 

[Truthfrees]

I don't feel there is much interpretation to be done. I think most come in with their favorite beliefs. I read the Word. All I base my Christian walk is the Holy Spirit and the Word.

If you read it w/o a slant and look for the meaning most of the time it is right there.

If you read openly not trying to prove any doctrine I don't find most of it hard or open to that much interpretation

I agree with each of the points you make.

Curiously though, what you say about yourself is what I believe about myself.

Before I was wof, I STRONGLY believed poverty was a virtue, money was evil, sickness was to be embraced as the will of the LORD, etc.

I didn't rebuke anything that happened to me, because I thought no matter what it was, it must be the LORD'S will.

Now I look back and realize, why would the LORD tell us to rebuke the devil and take authority over him, if everything that happens is HIS will?

I kinda missed that point all together.

That's an example of some of the 180 degree turn arounds I've had in my interpretation of scripture.

Another one the LORD showed me is, IF it's HIS will for me to be sick, then why go to a doctor to be healed of something the LORD did?

The LORD HIMSELF has led me into wof, and has been answering my objections to wof teaching with scripture and revelation.

I guess I forgot how strange wof sounded to me, because the LORD has turned my thinking around.

When I listen to the wof teachers and the specific teachings HE tells me to listen to, I still ask the LORD is this scripture interpretation true?

So far the LORD has told me yes, this is true because of xyz scripture.

When I think back, changing to wof wasn't easy. It took a lot of scripture study and a lot of prayer and waiting for the LORD to explain HIS words to me. I'd also listen to the teachings HE told me to listen to 20, 30, 50 times, to help me understand what the preachers were talking about. That's how strange wof was to my pre-wof thinking. I'd say to the LORD what's he talking about? How'd he get that idea from that scripture? And the LORD would explain it to me so I could get it. Now it's so clear what scripture means, but my pre-wof interpretation was clearly different.

I don't know how to explain it other than it was a paradigm shift.

I can't shift back to the old way of thinking because of how the LORD explained things to me to convince me of the new way of thinking.

Financially I'm blessed, but the LORD tells me I need to think big financially because I still walk around doing things the way I did when I was poor.

This is a growing process for me to fully embrace what the LORD means when HE says: "The LORD takes pleasure in the prosperity of HIS servants." (Psalm 35:27), and "The LORD will give me the desires of my heart." (Psalm 37:4), etc.

I know GODLY Christian businessmen who are used by the LORD in huge ways because they don't have any hangups about wealth.

I used to think Kenneth Copeland was financially off-track until I learned how much of the ministry money and his own personal money he gives away.

The guy's the most outrageous giver I've ever heard of.

He believes he should give and the LORD will give back.

His present home was bought with money that came pouring in as gifts to Gloria.

Some of my family were led to send Gloria money, and tell her to use it for herself.

Little did they know she was believing the LORD for a nice home for herself.

The planes and cars Kenneth has were GIVEN to him as he gave away his own stuff.

The LORD would tell him to give away his favorite stuff to people.

Next thing he knew, someone he didn't even know was giving him something he had been believing the LORD for.

That guy can't seem to out-give the LORD.

Our Pastor is like that too.

He'll give away all the money he has to the places the Lord tells him, and next thing stuff and money comes pouring back into his lap. He'll give away his only car and next thing here comes a new car. My Pastor doesn't tell anyone what he's doing. He just does what the LORD tells him, and tells us the praise report after it happens.

IOW, the Copelands and our Pastor don't tell us their needs. They only tell the LORD, and believe HIM for HIS supernatural provision.

The Copelands and my Pastor know the power of "Give and it will be given to you, pressed down, shaken together and running over". (Luke 6:38)

They both believe that if you have a big need give away MORE of what you have. They call it sowing seed. (Matthew 13:24) I'm presently asking the LORD to explain this one to me.

I want to know what they know so I can think like they think about money.

I don't want to "try it" and see what happens, because that ISN'T faith.

I want to see and understand in the SPIRIT what they see and understand in the SPIRIT, so I can be free from the poverty mentality and live the way the LORD told me HE wants me to.

If what I've shared seems strange to you, I understand.

The LORD led me into wof because I asked HIM to tell me how to think and I would agree with whatever HE said. (John 5:19, 5:30, 8:28, 12:49)

 

[Truthfrees]

I have been blessed in so many ways by trusting the Lord when I gave or when I could not, He has given 100 return but I can not and will not use the lord like a bank acct or a lottery. I know that WoF is serious business and it gets the bad rap bc people say... give me $77 on 7/7/77 or something and make a mockery of the word. When I give I give in faith, the Lord gives me what I need. I have testimony after testimony how He made a way for us to have a house worth nearly a million $ for 160.000. I was trusting Him to make a way that we could get the house so when the plumbing froze and the house was covered in a blue fungus bc it was winter and it didn't dry properly, no one wanted the house. What no one knew was the house was all cedar and the fungus was killed with simple bleach.
We had no way of knowing that the disaster that blew out the plumbing and cracked all the old cast iron radiators was the Lord's way of getting us our dream house.
AS a new Christian when the Bakkers were saying give $1000 for a lifetime membership to thieir theme park and God will do such and such.. when I went to write that check.. it felt so disrespectful to give so that God would give me cash. I ask for the important things, peace in my home, health, and love. We have all that and much more.
If a person gives to get... the Lord isn't mocked, He reads hearts.... I try to be honest before the Lord and if I know my hearts not right, I give that to Him too.
God bless, andrea

I'd love to hear your testimonies.

This is very interesting to me.

 

[Scottmcc1]

Like me, many of the Christians I know came to the Lord without a reading history. They just weren't readers, and the first book they actually took time to read was the Bible. That desire came from being saved and hungering for spiritual nourishment.

Like me, they had no former training to lead them. We were just a bunch of youthful Jesus people of the 70s. Then, from among us rose several "leaders." We knew very little, so what was it that these men taught? Where did these men gain their particular knowledge to share to seekers in those days? All of it came from owning the largest cassette tape libraries from which they memorized sermons from Copeland and other WOF camps, as well as other error ridden teachings that came out of Ft. Lauderdale's Sheep/Shepherding or Discipleship dynasty: Bob Mumford, Derek Prince, Charles Simpson, Don Basham, and another couple of them.

Not one of those self appointed leaders received any "revelation." Instead, they just spouted from their large library of WOF and Mumford cassette their nightly messages to young men and women whose time was spent struggling to maintain food on their tables.

Real work was hard to come by on the beach in those days, and still is. Most guys worked construction: hanging drywall, painting, masonry, etc. The pastor, himself, was once a janitor at the local naval base. So, from among us existed an extraordinary lack of general knowledge. Only a handful attended college, which is what I did, by hitchhiking my way to classes.

To hear someone tell us that gaining riches was as easy as giving to God through whoever it was stood before us, well, we had to go for it. Even if we didn't have anything more than a quarter in our pockets, we gave what we could in hopes of gaining a hundredfold increase. Soon, we were told, houses, cars, and those cattle on a thousand hills would begin to manifest in abundance.

One year passed, then another, then another, and still not one sign of that increase manifested to anyone of us. Oh, the pastors were doing well, it was easy to see. Being unable to give much, as I was a struggling college student, I was almost unnoticed, and never was I drawn by invitation into any of the cliques that always arose out of those fellowships. If I couldn't give, I couldn't give, but I did know how to play a standup bass, which I did, during worship.

More years passed, I'd completed my degree and was working on my Masters, when I joined a large group that met in an elementary school gymnasium. By then, I had a better job and was able to give more, which WAS noticed by my new young pastor. What a difference that made! I was greeted when I walked into the meeting like an old pal. No longer was I unfit to fit in. Yep, with a firm handshake and a hug I was welcomed with smiles, and was even asked to lead adult Sunday school.

See the difference? Notice how money makes that difference? Believe me, it does, and it will forever. This is why it is best to meet in each others homes, without expectation, without a one man show, and without a list of bills to pay. This way there is less judgment of anyone. Everyone meets on an equal plane.

I agree with the home group thing in theory completely. Yet in practice it has not worked for me. I can't find a home group 1st off. there are a few advertised but they seem to have some weird doctrine. Because they meet in homes most don't advertise because they are afraid of crazies.

I did find one once but it was over 30 miles away and then they at times went to a church that was another 30 miles further away. So we found a little church close to where we live and serve there.

Buildings are a problem and are a drain on money and time. Leaders need to keep a humble heart and serve the people getting them into ministry as soon as possible.

 

[hopeinGod]

I'm absolutely certain no one in the body of Christ is destined for ministry in the way we have known it to be over the past numerous centuries. Fulltime occupations that require salaries be paid to pastors, associate pastors, childrens' teachers, music ministers, etc. don't line up with the Word of God. There is simply no place where such a secular-like position can be found in any of the New Testament.

Where would one find such as we have today within the pages of the Bible? Where are the huge churches, the fulltime paid ministries, the big choirs, the mosh pit-like worship services and conventions? Please, someone show me.

The truth is, we have lost our way. All the crusades in the world are organized around the personal agendas of men. They are not supported in Scripture. The disciples spoke in what we would today call town squares and in areas where the public gathered. Not one convention was held in the New Testament, nor were there preparations being made to build cathedrals, monasteries, church buildings or temples.

For the Most high does not dwell in temples made with hands, but in the hearts of believers. Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? So then, why make all that fusss over building programs? Instead, peaceably come together in one another's homes, or start your own homebased gathering, and begin to recognize that we are God's hands, feet and voice, and that we too have something to give.

 

[Simon Peter]

I think it's the LORD who teaches this:

" “Do not touch My anointed ones, And do My prophets no harm.” " - 1 Chronicles 16:22, Psalm 105:15

The above is not a command for us. And it's certainly not included in the 10 commandments, the 613 OT written laws, or even the oral tradition.
It was merely an account of how God defended Israel from physical harm from pagan kings.

Here's the verse in context:

1 Chronicles 16:14-22 ESV
(14) He is the LORD our God; his judgments are in all the earth.
(15) Remember his covenant forever, the word that he commanded, for a thousand generations,
(16) the covenant that he made with Abraham, his sworn promise to Isaac,
(17) which he confirmed as a statute to Jacob, as an everlasting covenant to Israel,
(18) saying, "To you I will give the land of Canaan, as your portion for an inheritance."
(19) When you were few in number, and of little account, and sojourners in it,
(20) wandering from nation to nation, from one kingdom to another people,
(21) he allowed no one to oppress them; he rebuked kings on their account,
(22) saying, "Touch not my anointed ones, do my prophets no harm!"




Jesus did away with the law, but Pharisees wanted to hang laws on us that even OT Israel never had to abide by
However, I understand that it would be foolish to try to harm a true Prophet of God, because I believe that God is still to be feared, and He still defends His people (all of them, not just special anointed ones).

peace,
Simon

 

[TasManOfGod]

I'm absolutely certain no one in the body of Christ is destined for ministry in the way we have known it to be over the past numerous centuries. Fulltime occupations that require salaries be paid to pastors, associate pastors, childrens' teachers, music ministers, etc. don't line up with the Word of God. There is simply no place where such a secular-like position can be found in any of the New Testament.

Where would one find such as we have today within the pages of the Bible? Where are the huge churches, the fulltime paid ministries, the big choirs, the mosh pit-like worship services and conventions? Please, someone show me.

The truth is, we have lost our way. All the crusades in the world are organized around the personal agendas of men. They are not supported in Scripture. The disciples spoke in what we would today call town squares and in areas where the public gathered. Not one convention was held in the New Testament, nor were there preparations being made to build cathedrals, monasteries, church buildings or temples.

For the Most high does not dwell in temples made with hands, but in the hearts of believers. Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? So then, why make all that fusss over building programs? Instead, peaceably come together in one another's homes, or start your own homebased gathering, and begin to recognize that we are God's hands, feet and voice, and that we too have something to give.

Yes and have you heard that some are even using the internet to spread the gospel - how unscriptual is that????

 

[Andrea411]

I'd love to hear your testimonies.

This is very interesting to me.

God is so so good. Over 25 years ago I was still fairly new in the faith. I had been radically saved in my living room a few years earlier so I didn't have any background except as an angry atheist. I have a short testimony in 'about me'.
So my husband was not a believer. I had a stash of cash that I used for 'things that came up' - hubby knew I kept a stash but he didn't know how much. One day my wallet was missing, I was at work and just had a panic attack. There was $1100 plus paychecks uncashed. (don't ask, thats just how I did things). I'm having a fit and praying please please please (you know the kind) and the Lord says, its going to be ok. So ok. I told my husband and we agreed to go home and search for the wallet. Of course we tore everything everywhere possible... nothing. Through it the Lord kept telling me, its ok. So its 3 days and I'm praying and believing and the Lord says, tell your husband. I said, I can't he isn't a believer. The Lord said, tell him I said you will get your wallet back.
.... I told the Lord I'd like to give half the money to the poor, it wasn't a bargain but it was an opportunity to give. So in faith I said, Tom, the Lord told me I'm going to get the wallet back, its will be okay. But I told Him if we got it I was going to give half the money to Ethiopian famine relief Operation Blessing. (He would never have agreed to that kind of giving otherwise). My husband rolled his eyes and made a face saying something sarcastically, RIGHT!!. I turned and looked out the kitchen window to see our dog running down the driveway with something in her mouth. It was my wallet. Not only was all the money there, but my DL, Credit cards, checks... it wasn't chewed on and we lived on a large farm... so where this wallet was IDK. We had searched all around where we parked the cars thinking maybe it fell out.
So I go running out and i'm crying bc I knew the Lord spoke and answered and my husband just looks at me and said, He answers fast. I got to give that money not bc it was a bargain, the Lord hadn't told me to, I told Him I wanted to and it was a good way to get hubby to agree. I did.
A few months later, we were being evicted from the farm. The family that owned it wanted it for their family. So I was talking to my husband about getting a house and we looked, there was nothing affordable in our area. But the Lord had told me it would be alright. So as the time got nearer to us having to move, one night I told my husband, that I had been praying and the Lord said, it would be alright we were going to get a house. Tom said, real smart alecky "the Lord doesn't care where we live". Something rose up in me and I turned to him wagging my finger and knowing for absolute certain. Like one of those preachers with the loud voice. I said, He might not care where you live but my God cares where I LIVE and he's liable to get some fool like you to buy me that house.
The next day, my mother-in- law drives over.... this is a woman who never gave anyone a dime. She was really tight. She'd check out her Christmas present decide what it was worth and write a check...LOL and say Merry Christmas. She didn't give and she didn't take. She drives over tells us she'll lend us ten thousand dollars to put down on a house.
The house we got we paid $44,000 for and three years later we were offered $90,000. We turned it down.
We were in that house within 6 months of believing the Lord and giving that donation... I didn't do the math but it was so much more than 100 fold. It was a witness to my husband of the faithfulness of God. It was a witness that this God truly speaks and the one prayer I'd had was... what I wanted more than anything was my husband's salvation. That was truly where my heart was, the house was just one way the Lord used to tell Tom, He was real and He was involved.
But that didn't get him saved, that comes later with the next house... story to come. Got to get to work.

God bless, andrea

 

[SavedByGrace3]

If you knew negative things about Jim Jones, you wouldn't have warned anyone to avoid him?

Love is crossing the road to help people, and love is also warning people of danger. In OT law if you knew of a danger and didn't warn someone, you were guilty of wrongdoing.

We have a Biblical responsibility to warn fellow Christians of wolves in sheep's clothing.

peace,
Simon

Actually JJ was rejected Christ, Christianity, and the Bible in favor of communistic socialism. Just saying because we should not perpetuate the lies that denigrate Christ.

According to Wikipedia, he started out as a Christian, and called his church the Peoples Temple Christian Church Full Gospel.

Later, though, he rejected the bible: "By the early 1970s, Jones began deriding traditional Christianity as "fly away religion," rejected the Bible as being white men's justification to subordinate women and subjugate people of color and stated it spoke of a "Sky God" who was no God at all.[5] Jones authored a booklet titled "The Letter Killeth," stating what he felt were the contradictions, absurdities, and atrocities in the Bible."

After that, he claimed to be an atheist.

Jonestown was, supposedly, a communist settlement. More a political thing than religious, although it's still recognized as being a cult.

 

[Simon Peter]

Actually JJ was rejected Christ, Christianity, and the Bible in favor of communistic socialism. Just saying because we should not perpetuate the lies that denigrate Christ.

According to Wikipedia, he started out as a Christian, and called his church the Peoples Temple Christian Church Full Gospel.

Later, though, he rejected the bible: "By the early 1970s, Jones began deriding traditional Christianity as "fly away religion," rejected the Bible as being white men's justification to subordinate women and subjugate people of color and stated it spoke of a "Sky God" who was no God at all.[5] Jones authored a booklet titled "The Letter Killeth," stating what he felt were the contradictions, absurdities, and atrocities in the Bible."

After that, he claimed to be an atheist.

Jonestown was, supposedly, a communist settlement. More a political thing than religious, although it's still recognized as being a cult.

I highly recommend that you don't use Wikipedia as your primary source.
The booklet that Jones authored wasn't called "The Letter Killeth", it was actually called:

"The Letter Killeth, but the Spirit Giveth LIFE 2Cor.3:6"

The subtitle:
LET US EXALT THE NAME OF JESUS AND NOT THE KING JAMES OF ENGLAND!!

It has a chapter called:
GREAT TRUTHS IN THE BIBLE
and a chapter called:
ERRORS IN THE BIBLE

And that was my point, some truth with some error can be a very dangerous thing; and the error needs to be pointed out to people. But if I'd tried to point out Jim Jones' errors in the 1970s, you lot would have been saying;

'Don't touch the Lord's anointed'
'Judge not lest you be judged'
etc...


peace,
Simon