Was Noah's flood global?

[tonychanyt]

Genesis 6:

20 Two of every kind of bird, of every kind of animal and of every kind of creature that moves along the ground will come to you to be kept alive.

Was Noah's flood global?

No, according to Barnes:

For the sake of Noah, the animal species also shall be preserved, "two of each, male and female." They are to come in pairs for propagation. The fowl, the cattle, the creeping thing or smaller animals, are to come. From this it appears that the wild animals are not included among the inmates of the ark. ... As the deluge was universal only in respect to the human race, it was not necessary to include any animals but those that were near man, and within the range of the overwhelming waters. Fodder and other provisions for a year have to be laid in.

Did Noah have marsupial kangaroos in the ark?

According to Barnes, it was not a worldwide flood, but it looked like one to Noah. As far as Noah could tell, his world died. For all intents and purposes of the redemption story, it was a catastrophic/global event: all humans died except Noah's family. That's the point.

What about the freshwater aquatic species?

They were not aboard Noah's ark. They would have become extinct.

National Center for Science Education gives more detailed calculations:

Because of the curvature of the earth, the horizon drops from where the viewer is standing. However, the drop is proportional to the square of the distance between the viewer and an object on the horizon (Young nd). From these relationships, it can be seen that a tribal chief (or Noah) standing on the deck of a large boat (Ark), perhaps 7.8 meters above the water, would not be able to see the tops of any hills as high as 15 m from as little as 24 km away across flood plains covered with water because the curvature of the earth prevents it (See the Appendix for examples of calculations). Most hills in this region that are as much as 15 m high are more than 95 km away from the river levees. Therefore, the survivors of the Flood could see only water in all directions while they were floating down the Tigris River and over the flood plains. Many of these hills would also be partly covered with water which would make their tops project less above the water level, and therefore, the curvature of the earth would make them disappear from the line of sight in even a shorter distance than 24 km.

There is also a parallel Babylonian Story of the Flood written in about 1750 BC. Both stories called for a worldwide flood to destroy mankind.

Was Noah's flood global?

As far as Noah and the writer of Genesis knew, it was the whole earth. There was no place to go to escape. Genesis 7:

19 And the waters prevailed so mightily on the earth that all the high mountains under the whole heaven were covered.

The point of the flood was to kill all inhabitants under heaven except one family. There was no need for it to be global. As far as the inhabitants/earthlings were concerned, they thought everything was under heaven. All people were killed except 8. Their world was destroyed.

Jesus also had the global perspective in mind in Matthew 24:

37 For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, 39 and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

His listeners assumed a global flood.

If you think that Noah's flood was planet-wide around the globe, then bet on it

Ancient Chinese writings sometimes used the term 天下 (all under heaven) to refer to China as if there was nothing else outside of China. It was the ancient Chinese ethnocentric worldview.

See also I will wipe from the face of the EARTH every living creature

 

[Vambram]

Genesis describes Noah's flood as being global. Barnes is incorrect.

 

[tonychanyt]

Genesis describes Noah's flood as being global. Barnes is incorrect.

See If you think that Noah's flood was global and wish to wager on it, and follow up there

 

[Vambram]

See If you think that Noah's flood was global and wish to wager on it, and follow up there

I already did that months ago. I wager a 10 out of 10 that the flood in Genesis was indeed a global flood exactly as it is literally described in the Scriptures.

 

[tonychanyt]

I already did that months ago. I wager a 10 out of 10 that the flood in Genesis was indeed a global flood exactly as it is literally described in the Scriptures.

link?

 

[Vambram]

link?

I don't have time to dig through that other thread. I stand by my answer here and in your other thread.

 

[d taylor]

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This is an illustration of what The Bible states was the flood, as Genesis 7 states. If read what The Bible actually states, The Bible never states the flood waters covered the seas. Just the earth and the flood only wiped out living creatures on the face of the earth. The seas were not covered by the flood waters and nothing in the seas died.

The earth in The Bible means land/ground and not a water covered sphere with land scattered around the sphere.

For after seven more days I will cause it to rain on the earth forty days and forty nights, and I will destroy from the face of the earth all living things that I have made.”

Noah was six hundred years old when the floodwaters were on the earth.

And it came to pass after seven days that the waters of the flood were on the earth.

In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

Now the flood was on the earth forty days. The waters increased and lifted up the ark, and it rose high above the earth. The waters prevailed and greatly increased on the earth, and the ark moved about on the surface of the waters. And the waters prevailed exceedingly on the earth, and all the high hills under the whole heaven were covered. The waters prevailed fifteen cubits upward, and the mountains were covered. And all flesh died that moved on the earth: birds and cattle and beasts and every creeping thing that creeps on the earth, and every man. All in whose nostrils was the breath of the spirit of life, all that was on the dry land, died. So He destroyed all living things which were on the face of the ground: both man and cattle, creeping thing and bird of the air. They were destroyed from the earth. Only Noah and those who were with him in the ark remained alive. And the waters prevailed on the earth one hundred and fifty days.


As is stated in The Bible God sits above the circle of the earth as illustrated in the top drawing. The Bible also states God. For He has founded it upon the seas, And established it upon the waters.

 

[Semper-Fi]

1 Everything wiped-out “under heaven.”
2 Everything with "the breath of life" died.
3 All flesh destroyed on earth.
4 All Hills under the whole heaven covered.
5 The rainbow covenant given to "all life on earth".
6 The world that was, being overflowed with water, perished.
7 Built Tower of Babel so they were not destroyed like forfathers.
8 Flood stories scattered around the earth with different languages.

"These are the families of the sons of Noah, after their generations,
in their nations: and by these were the nations divided in the earth
after the flood. Genesis 10:32 (KJV) These 16 grandkids of Noah.

Christ not only confirmed the world wide events of Noah’s day, He said the
same worldwide destruction would come about in our day—only this time in
the form of nuclear world war, he will come to save mankind from extinction.

The Apostle Paul wrote, “By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not
seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house;
by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness
which is by faith”.

 

[tonychanyt]

1 Everything wiped-out “under heaven.”

Genesis described a world flood as they understood it.

 

[Semper-Fi]

Genesis described a world flood as they understood it.

Many times in the bible God spoke to holy men.
The claim it was just what man understood is false. It was God who said:
I will destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven;
and every thing that is in the earth shall die.

Are you claiming God does not know what everything under heaven means?
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“Surely the Lord God will do nothing,
but he revealeth his secret unto his
servants the prophets” (Amos 3:7)

“We have also a more sure word of
prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye
take heed, as unto a light that shinethin
a dark place, until the day dawn, and
the day star arise in your hearts:

Knowing this first, that no prophecy of
the scripture is of any private interpretation.
For the prophecy came not in old time by the
will of man: but holy men of God spake
as [they were moved by the Holy Spirit]”

There is prophecy in the first book of the bible.
Whoever wrote genesis was a prophet, a holy man
of God that was moved by the Holy Spirit.
-

Many verses it is God talking.

3And the LORD said....

7And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created
from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing,
and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

13And God said unto Noah....

17And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth,
to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven;
and every thing that is in the earth shall die.

22Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he.

1And the LORD said unto Noah....

For yet seven days, and I [God] will cause it to rain upon the earth
forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that
I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.

5And Noah did according unto all that the LORD commanded him.

15And God spake unto Noah, saying.....

21 and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground
any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil
from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living,
as I have done.

22While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat,
and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.

To say Genesis was written by only what mankind understood is false.
You can continue to believe According to Barnes, I will stick to the bible.

 

[tonychanyt]

Are you claiming God does not know what everything under heaven means?

No.

Good question.

 

[Semper-Fi]

Semper-Fi said: Are you claiming God does not know
what everything under heaven means?

No.

Good question.

Can you give a bible definition of what Heaven means?
Only one local area under Heaven?

As far as Noah could tell, his world died.

Noah never saw it rain, it does not matter if He understood.
Noah did not write or dictate the book of genesis.

 

[tonychanyt]

Can you give a bible definition of what Heaven means?

Literally, it means everything under heaven. That's how ancient Chinese meant it, too.

Only one local area under Heaven?

Yes, metaphorically. That was also how the Chinese used the term. They didn't know there was another great empire in the West, under heaven, Rome.

Good questions.

Are you able to distinguish between these two usages?

 

[Semper-Fi]

Semper-Fi said:
Can you give a bible definition of what Heaven plural means?

tonychanyt said: Literally, it means everything under heaven

The bible definition of heaven

“Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them”
This word heavens refers to two different heavens. (Gen. 2:1)

The first heaven consists of [the Earth’s atmosphere]. The second
heaven is the vast reaches of space beyond the atmosphere.

There is also a third heaven: the home of God. The Apostle Paul saw
this “third heaven,” where God’s throne is, in a vision (ii Cor. 12:1-2).

This vision Paul had, he was unable to tell if he was physically there,
or if he was seeing it in his mind.

In Heb. 4:14, the phrase “into the heavens,” should be translated
“through the heavens.” Jesus Christ passed through the first two
heavens—Earth’s atmosphere and outer space—as He ascended
to the third heaven.

John 3:13 no man has ascended to heaven except for Jesus Christ.
Certainly many have ascended to the first and second heavens by
aircraft, spacecraft and other means, this verse can only refer to
the third heaven, where the Almighty God resides.

The first Heaven is where the birds fly.
All the creatures that breath air reside under/fly in this first Heaven.

See -The waters

That face of the deep

The Deep. Waters? - The Waters which were under the firmament [He called Seas] There is the sea, great and broad, In which are swarms without number, Animals both small and great. Psalm 104:25 "There is [the sea], vast and spacious, teeming with [creatures beyond number]". The number of...

www.christianforums.com

Yes; it Literally means everything under heaven.

tonychanyt said: That's how ancient Chinese meant it, too.

I do not know what the ancient Chinese meant by heaven.
The Chinese language goes way way back in time.
In Chinese mythology:

Tian - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"Tian (天) is one of the oldest Chinese terms for heaven

It sounds nothing like the Bibles definition of Heaven.
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The whole human family sprang from the three sons of Noah.

Genesis 10:32: "These are the families of the sons of Noah,
after their generations, in their nations; and of these were
the nations divided in the earth after the flood."

The Chinese decedents are from one of Noah 16 grandkids.
Many Cultures Have a Tradition of a Global Flood.

Why Does Nearly Every Culture Have a Tradition of a Global Flood?

"Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?" (I Corinthians 1:20) One of the strongest evidences for the global flood which annihilated all people on Earth except for Noah and his family, has been the...

www.icr.org

A common idea points to a common experience. And the concept of
a Great Flood must be one of the most common in human history.

One such example you know is the Chinese word for ship, or large
boat. This word is made up of three parts:Eight-person-boat.
Noah’s Ark hidden in the ancient Chinese characters

https://creation.com/images/pdfs/tj/j19_2/j19_2_96-108.pdf

It’s a remarkable parallel to the biblical story of
the great ark that housed eight persons.
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Nimrod:And the beginning of his kingdom was Babel, and Erech,
Babel was the “beginning” of Nimrod’s kingdom.

7 Facts You Didn’t Know about Nimrod in the Bible

We may never know how many of the tales about Nimrod are myths and how much is history, but we can learn one thing. Being strong or powerful does not always equate to being in the right with God.

www.crosswalk.com

NIMROD: Found?

Has the original despot been discovered?

armstronginstitute.org

God confounded the languages of the builders, and scattered them
across the Earth, bringing the memory of the flood with them.
Including the ancient decedents of the Chinese people.

 

[Semper-Fi]

Are you able to distinguish between these two usages?

I do not believe any points I gave in post #8 are metaphorically.
Want to go over that list, you only commented on #1 so far.

PS. Sorry about last post, the quotes went wild and I could not fix.

p.s. I just tried to fix my post above again, now I have a line through everything.

P.S. I think my post is readable now finally, must be late, headed for bed..

 

[Diamond7]

Was Noah's flood global?

Noah's flood was an archetype of the flood that destroyed the world at the time of Pangea. Noah saved the plants and animals from Eden that we read about in the Bible. Domestic animals and cultivated plants.