The Pro Palestinian protests and news thread

[Pommer]

Muslims mostly have no idea what is in the Bible.

Relatively few religious adherents are well versed in other religions Holy Books, yes. Well spotted.

And for sure the Qu'ran overrides the Bible if there is a disagreement. For example, Muslims say that God's covenant was with Ishmael. This directly contradicts the Bible but reveals why Muslims are so determined to rule the world.

Maybe both tomes are incorrect?

 

[Reasonably Sane]

Muslims mostly have no idea what is in the Bible. And for sure the Qu'ran overrides the Bible if there is a disagreement. For example, Muslims say that God's covenant was with Ishmael. This directly contradicts the Bible but reveals why Muslims are so determined to rule the world.

Like I said, it depends on how broadly you want to go with the statement. And you will get a different answer from every professing Muslim you ask. Kinda like asking Christians about the bible.

 

[Reasonably Sane]

This guy from india sure seems to have his thumb on the pulse of what is happening here. It's also got some humor.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Relatively few religious adherents are well versed in other religions Holy Books, yes. Well spotted.

Maybe both tomes are incorrect?

The Qu'ran states that Christians and Jews should be killed along with anyone else who is an unbeliever in Islam. So no, the Qu'ran is a collection of half truths taken from the Old Testament and incitements to murder. It allows rape of non-Muslim women and it allows Muslims to lie to further Islam's aims. Muhammed was a mass murdering paeodophile. Muslims call him the "ideal man". Now you know what is behind Hamas, ISIL, Al Quada, Boko Haram, Hezbollah and every other murdering Muslim group that seeks to take over the world.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Like I said, it depends on how broadly you want to go with the statement. And you will get a different answer from every professing Muslim you ask. Kinda like asking Christians about the bible.

I've looked at what their teachers say. Islam is what Islam does. Al Quaeda, Boko Haram, Hezbollah, Hamas and ISIL - Islam 101. If they are not murdering "infidels" they are killing each other. All in the name of the religion of peace.

 

[Reasonably Sane]

The Qu'ran states that Christians and Jews should be killed along with anyone else who is an unbeliever in Islam. So no, the Qu'ran is a collection of half truths taken from the Old Testament and incitements to murder. It allows rape of non-Muslim women and it allows Muslims to lie to further Islam's aims. Muhammed was a mass murdering paeodophile. Muslims call him the "ideal man". Now you know what is behind Hamas, ISIL, Al Quada, Boko Haram, Hezbollah and every other murdering Muslim group that seeks to take over the world.

Personally, I believe the core/foundational problem in Gaza is Islam.
This video from Bill Warner I came across many years ago really covers it brilliantly. He has many more on things like the Crusades, etc. Start at exactly the five minute mark. The first five minutes are about his books.

 

[hislegacy]

Pro-Palestinian Rams US Building with 'Hebrew Israelite' Symbol​

Initially believing that her target was actually a Jewish school as opposed to an organization she probably would have felt quite at home in, Almaghtheh drove to the building that housed the Israelite School of Universal and Practical Knowledge.

 

[Reasonably Sane]

Pro-Palestinian Rams US Building with 'Hebrew Israelite' Symbol​

Initially believing that her target was actually a Jewish school as opposed to an organization she probably would have felt quite at home in, Almaghtheh drove to the building that housed the Israelite School of Universal and Practical Knowledge.

I believe this would be a hate crime, by definition.

 

[Vanellus]

It's dangerous being a journalist in Gaza unless your output is controlled by the IDF. 36 journalists killed so far - the worst death rate in at least 30 years.

 

[Reasonably Sane]

It's dangerous being a journalist in Gaza unless your output is controlled by the IDF. 36 journalists killed so far - the worst death rate in at least 30 years.

I think this time it is a real war. Journalists got too complacent. War is hell - even for journalists.

 

[JosephZ]

Muslims say that God's covenant was with Ishmael. This directly contradicts the Bible but reveals why Muslims are so determined to rule the world.

Islam teaches that God made a covenant with the children of Israel.

We made a covenant with the Children of Israel: “Worship none but God; and be good to parents, and relatives, and orphans, and the needy; and speak nicely to people; and pray regularly, and give alms.” Then you turned away, except for a few of you, recanting. (Qur'an 2:83)

O children of Israel! Remember My favors to you; fulfil your covenant with Me and I will fulfil My covenant with you, that you should fear none but Me. Believe in My revelations, which are confirming your scriptures; do not be the first one to deny My revelations, and do not sell them for a petty price, fear Me and Me alone. Do not mix the Truth with falsehood, or knowingly conceal the truth. (Qur’an 2:40-42)

“O Children of Israel! Remember the special favor which I bestowed upon you; that I exalted you above all other nations.” (Qur’an;2:122)

God received a covenant with the Children of Israel, and We raised up from them twelve of their leaders, and God said: 'Behold, I am with you; if you perform the prayer, and pay the alms, and believe in My messengers and support them, and lend God a loan of righteousness; I will remit your sins, and admit you into Gardens beneath which rivers flow. Whosoever of you disbelieves thereafter has indeed gone astray from the right way. (Quran 5:12)

When Moses said to his people, “O my people, remember God’s blessings upon you, when He placed prophets among you, and made you kings, and gave you what He never gave any other people. O my people, enter the Holy Land which God has assigned for you, and do not turn back, lest you return as losers.” (Qur'an 5:20-21)

We said to the Children of Israel, “Inhabit the land, and when the promise of the Hereafter arrives, We will bring you all together.” (Qur'an 17:104)

We made the oppressed people inherit the eastern and western parts of the land, which We had blessed. Thus the fair promise of your Lord to the Children of Israel was fulfilled, because of their endurance. And We destroyed what Pharaoh and his people had built, and what they had harvested. And We delivered the Children of Israel across the sea. (Qur'an 7:137-138)

The Qu'ran states that Christians and Jews should be killed along with anyone else who is an unbeliever in Islam.

Fortunately, Muslims don't interpret the Qur'an the way you do. The vast majority of Muslims know how to read the Qur'an properly and know how to put things into textual and historical context. Evidence of this can be found all around the world, as more than 99% of the world's Muslims are living in peace and harmony with their neighbors. Every single verse in the Qur'an that calls for the killing of anyone comes with strict conditions. There are no verses in the Qur'an that call for the killing of non-Muslims simply because they are not Muslims. The verses that do mention the killing of non-Muslims are referring to very specific groups at a specific point in history. They are not talking about all non-Muslims, and those commands were not addressed to Muslims living in 2023.

Muhammed was a mass murdering paeodophile.

Muhammad and his companions were warriors, much like King David and Joshua in the Bible. They all committed atrocities and instructed their soldiers to commit them against their enemies. If we look at Muhammad and his actions through a historical lens, while they appear bad from our modern perspective, they were normal for the point in history at which he lived. Also, Muhammad's marriage to Aisha wasn't unusual at the point in history that it took place. Prearranged and child marriages were common among all societies at that time, and Christians and Jews were practicing them centuries before Islam existed.

This video from Bill Warner I came across many years ago really covers it brilliantly. He has many more on things like the Crusades, etc. Start at exactly the five minute mark. The first five minutes are about his books.

I think it would be educational for many of us to look at what Christianity actually teaches (e.g. what did Jesus say and do), and then do the same with Islam. The latter is what the video I posted does.

That video contains many errors and misrepresents what Islam teaches. No one with even a basic background in Islamic studies would agree with what Bill Warner says in it, and that's probably why the comments are disabled on that video. Bill Warner is the pen name of Bill French, a physics and math professor who has no background whatsoever in Islamic studies and/or Islamic history. He's also a well-known anti-Islamic propagandist, which explains why the first five minutes of the video have him peddling his books.

 

[Reasonably Sane]

That video contains many errors and misrepresents what Islam teaches. No one with even a basic background in Islamic studies would agree with what Bill Warner says in it, and that's probably why the comments are disabled on that video. Bill Warner is the pen name of Bill French, a physics and math professor who has no background whatsoever in Islamic studies and/or Islamic history. He's also a well-known anti-Islamic propagandist, which explains why the first five minutes of the video have him peddling his books.

Opinions vary.

He's not my only source. I just think he presents it pretty well in that video. And sure, he's anti-Islamic sort of in the same way a Jew is anti-Nazi. And in neither case does that impeach their opinions and statements.

Edit: I found it comical that you said he doesn't have a basic background in Islamic studies. That video is 9 years old. So he has at least that. And if you read his books and see his other MANY videos I think the evidence contradicts your statement. The information he presents speaks for itself. Note: I rarely respond to ad-hominem attacks against sources, but I made an exception here.

 

[Pommer]

Opinions vary.

He's not my only source. I just think he presents it pretty well in that video. And sure, he's anti-Islamic sort of in the same way a Jew is anti-Nazi. And in neither case does that impeach their opinions and statements.

Edit: I found it comical that you said he doesn't have a basic background in Islamic studies. That video is 9 years old. So he has at least that. And if you read his books and see his other MANY videos I think the evidence contradicts your statement. The information he presents speaks for itself. Note: I rarely respond to ad-hominem attacks against sources, but I made an exception here.

It’s not an ad hominem if the presenter was trotted out with an appeal-to-authority fallacy.

 

[Reasonably Sane]

It’s not an ad hominem if the presenter was trotted out with an appeal-to-authority fallacy.

He wasn't. He was "trotted out" as what I believe to be a useful source of good information. Make of it what you will.

An appeal to authority is along the lines of "Mr. Authority" sez, so it must be true. i.e. it's like the flip ad-hominem. It is a positive focus on the source rather than the information the source offers. That is not what I was doing, obviously.

 

[Vanellus]

I think this time it is a real war. Journalists got too complacent. War is hell - even for journalists.

Right, wrong, right and omitted to mention the courage of journalists.

 

[Reasonably Sane]

Right, wrong, right and omitted to mention the courage of journalists.

I can't really speak to that.

 

[Pommer]

He wasn't. He was "trotted out" as what I believe to be a useful source of good information. Make of it what you will.

An appeal to authority is along the lines of "Mr. Authority" sez, so it must be true. i.e. it's like the flip ad-hominem. It is a positive focus on the source rather than the information the source offers. That is not what I was doing, obviously.

if his expertise isn’t in religious studies (he is/was a physics professor), it’s appeal to authroity.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Islam teaches that God made a covenant with the children of Israel.

We made a covenant with the Children of Israel: “Worship none but God; and be good to parents, and relatives, and orphans, and the needy; and speak nicely to people; and pray regularly, and give alms.” Then you turned away, except for a few of you, recanting. (Qur'an 2:83)

O children of Israel! Remember My favors to you; fulfil your covenant with Me and I will fulfil My covenant with you, that you should fear none but Me. Believe in My revelations, which are confirming your scriptures; do not be the first one to deny My revelations, and do not sell them for a petty price, fear Me and Me alone. Do not mix the Truth with falsehood, or knowingly conceal the truth. (Qur’an 2:40-42)

“O Children of Israel! Remember the special favor which I bestowed upon you; that I exalted you above all other nations.” (Qur’an;2:122)

God received a covenant with the Children of Israel, and We raised up from them twelve of their leaders, and God said: 'Behold, I am with you; if you perform the prayer, and pay the alms, and believe in My messengers and support them, and lend God a loan of righteousness; I will remit your sins, and admit you into Gardens beneath which rivers flow. Whosoever of you disbelieves thereafter has indeed gone astray from the right way. (Quran 5:12)

When Moses said to his people, “O my people, remember God’s blessings upon you, when He placed prophets among you, and made you kings, and gave you what He never gave any other people. O my people, enter the Holy Land which God has assigned for you, and do not turn back, lest you return as losers.” (Qur'an 5:20-21)

We said to the Children of Israel, “Inhabit the land, and when the promise of the Hereafter arrives, We will bring you all together.” (Qur'an 17:104)

We made the oppressed people inherit the eastern and western parts of the land, which We had blessed. Thus the fair promise of your Lord to the Children of Israel was fulfilled, because of their endurance. And We destroyed what Pharaoh and his people had built, and what they had harvested. And We delivered the Children of Israel across the sea. (Qur'an 7:137-138)


Fortunately, Muslims don't interpret the Qur'an the way you do. The vast majority of Muslims know how to read the Qur'an properly and know how to put things into textual and historical context. Evidence of this can be found all around the world, as more than 99% of the world's Muslims are living in peace and harmony with their neighbors. Every single verse in the Qur'an that calls for the killing of anyone comes with strict conditions. There are no verses in the Qur'an that call for the killing of non-Muslims simply because they are not Muslims. The verses that do mention the killing of non-Muslims are referring to very specific groups at a specific point in history. They are not talking about all non-Muslims, and those commands were not addressed to Muslims living in 2023.



Muhammad and his companions were warriors, much like King David and Joshua in the Bible. They all committed atrocities and instructed their soldiers to commit them against their enemies. If we look at Muhammad and his actions through a historical lens, while they appear bad from our modern perspective, they were normal for the point in history at which he lived. Also, Muhammad's marriage to Aisha wasn't unusual at the point in history that it took place. Prearranged and child marriages were common among all societies at that time, and Christians and Jews were practicing them centuries before Islam existed.



That video contains many errors and misrepresents what Islam teaches. No one with even a basic background in Islamic studies would agree with what Bill Warner says in it, and that's probably why the comments are disabled on that video. Bill Warner is the pen name of Bill French, a physics and math professor who has no background whatsoever in Islamic studies and/or Islamic history. He's also a well-known anti-Islamic propagandist, which explains why the first five minutes of the video have him peddling his books.

Muhammed came centuries after Jesus. Muhammed's ways are the ways of the world. The Kingdom of God is not of this world. Muhammed intended to take over the world by any means, including lies, deception, rape, torture, theft and murder. That is not God's way.

If you bothered to read the Old Testament, God instructed Israel to kill her enemies for a good reason. David was not acting arbitrarily.

You can try to whitewash Islam anyway you like. The reality is seen in Afghanistan, where Christians are routinely murdered for not being Muslim. Pakistan is hardly better, where Christans are under constant threat of falling foul of "blasphemy" laws. How you blaspheme a mass murdering paedophile is beyond my comprehension. Iraqi Christians fare little better and Iran imprisons and persecutes Christians. However, the Iranian people are not as hardline as many other Muslim ruled nations. You don't have to worry about Christians in many other Muslim countries. There are very few. It's a death sentence to leave Islam. As one of their clerics said, no one would stay Muslim if were not so dangerous to leave it.

Not every Muslim is a terrorist. I've met a few and I've lived in a Muslim country. However, the vast majority of terrorists are Muslim. Ahmadi Muslims are not murderous, but Sunni and Shia Muslims reject them as true Muslims.

Don't be fooled. Muslims are infiltrating America, Europe, the UK (where I was born) Australia and New Zealand. I don't know about the rest of the non-Muslim world. The intent is to enforce the Muslim caliphate all over the world. It will not be by gentle persuasion and preaching peace.

The world covers up much Muslim violence. London is known as "Londonistan" because it so under the control of Muslims. The mayor is Muslim. His response to terror attacks? Get used to it. I visited Southampton in 2016. I avoided London because of the Muslim influence there. I did not know Southampton is just as bad.

I'm not a professor of anything. I can read. I've listened to an actual speech by a Muslim cleric denouncing the West and preaching Jihad - in an Australian mosque. How is this man not in prison? The West is terrified of Islam. However, ignoring the threat is not going to make it go away. Islam contradicts everything that democracy stands for. If you are so impressed by Islam, I suggest that you live for a while in a Muslim country. You might just change your mind.

 

[mindlight]

Some quite useful perspective:

Why Muslim nations don’t want ‘Palestinians’​

Suddenly so much of what is happening makes sense...

Arab countries opening their borders to these people is probably the only viable way to give them a future as human beings. They do not want to because they prefer to use these people as a stick to beat Israel with, they regard them as economically useless and a burden and they are like to be a security risk also. There is no way that Israel will go with a two-state solution in the wake of what Hamas did. Over the next twenty years, they are only more likely to become entrenched in that. After all, Israel is not defensible against Muslim hatred if it is partitioned. Also, the birth rate of Haredi Jews especially inside Israel means that the demographic balance is swinging firmly to the right.

 

[mindlight]

Muhammed came centuries after Jesus. Muhammed's ways are the ways of the world. The Kingdom of God is not of this world. Muhammed intended to take over the world by any means, including lies, deception, rape, torture, theft and murder. That is not God's way.

If you bothered to read the Old Testament, God instructed Israel to kill her enemies for a good reason. David was not acting arbitrarily.

You can try to whitewash Islam anyway you like. The reality is seen in Afghanistan, where Christians are routinely murdered for not being Muslim. Pakistan is hardly better, where Christans are under constant threat of falling foul of "blasphemy" laws. How you blaspheme a mass murdering paedophile is beyond my comprehension. Iraqi Christians fare little better and Iran imprisons and persecutes Christians. However, the Iranian people are not as hardline as many other Muslim ruled nations. You don't have to worry about Christians in many other Muslim countries. There are very few. It's a death sentence to leave Islam. As one of their clerics said, no one would stay Muslim if were not so dangerous to leave it.

Not every Muslim is a terrorist. I've met a few and I've lived in a Muslim country. However, the vast majority of terrorists are Muslim. Ahmadi Muslims are not murderous, but Sunni and Shia Muslims reject them as true Muslims.

Don't be fooled. Muslims are infiltrating America, Europe, the UK (where I was born) Australia and New Zealand. I don't know about the rest of the non-Muslim world. The intent is to enforce the Muslim caliphate all over the world. It will not be by gentle persuasion and preaching peace.

The world covers up much Muslim violence. London is known as "Londonistan" because it so under the control of Muslims. The mayor is Muslim. His response to terror attacks? Get used to it. I visited Southampton in 2016. I avoided London because of the Muslim influence there. I did not know Southampton is just as bad.

I'm not a professor of anything. I can read. I've listened to an actual speech by a Muslim cleric denouncing the West and preaching Jihad - in an Australian mosque. How is this man not in prison? The West is terrified of Islam. However, ignoring the threat is not going to make it go away. Islam contradicts everything that democracy stands for. If you are so impressed by Islam, I suggest that you live for a while in a Muslim country. You might just change your mind.

Much of the current demand for a ceasefire is being propelled by the Muslim community as a whole which only cares about taking back 'lost' Muslim lands and especially the Holy places. That the media and indeed the UK police have bought so heavily into their narrative is the more worrying result of this war. Morally speaking Israel has every right to destroy Hamas who are an existential threat to their very existence.