Romans 4, water baptism?

[Stephen Andrew]

Peace to all,

To me Paul received the Spirit, on the road to Damascus, blinded by "The Light" and was able to transform the gentiles without the Gentiles in the area even being Baptized. With Paul, was Peter, who said who would not baptize those Paul gave the Spirit unto. Then after they receivd the Spirit from Paul they were later Baptized by the water Baptism that John preached. The gentiles were so reverent that they had a temple for all their Gods, and even had a temple of the unknown God, This is the opportunity Paul took to walk right in, and evangelized and gave the Holy Spirit Baptism, the Pentecost to the Gentiles to The Temple of the Unknown God of the Gentiles, we now know and recognize as Jesus.

Peace always,
Stephen

 

[Stephen Andrew]

Peace to all,

Thanks good info.

To me, Baptism is through the flesh to the Spirit in the soul of the being. We become into the Body of Christ as Baptized for the spirit to manifest eternity through the spirit will of God. To me, the term Spirit Will is for all mankind to be united as one in being. Some refer to it as Divine, or Holy: exalted or worthy of complete devotion as one perfect in goodness and righteousness, by definition, no specific but all inclusive, to and through all, and we know it is all the will of God, that He has fulfilled faith and morality through His teachings, to US all.

Peace always,
Stephen

 

[Stephen Andrew]

Peace to all,

Philip told the Ethiopian the good news about Jesus, verse 35. Strikingly, the Ethiopian is referred to as the eunuch, beginning with his request that Philip explain to him the scriptures, verse 34. The eunuch responds to the good news by expressing a desire to participate in the ritual of baptism (cf. 2:41).

We as all are baptized. Through the faith of Abraham, all are saved.
He promised by His own name to Abraham, the father of Faith forever life to all, his descendants, and fulfilled life through "The Spirit" for all mankind 2000 years later with His Son.

Peace to all,
Stephen

 

[Dan Perez]

Peace to all,

Philip told the Ethiopian the good news about Jesus, verse 35. Strikingly, the Ethiopian is referred to as the eunuch, beginning with his request that Philip explain to him the scriptures, verse 34. The eunuch responds to the good news by expressing a desire to participate in the ritual of baptism (cf. 2:41).

We as all are baptized. Through the faith of Abraham, all are saved.
He promised by His own name to Abraham, the father of Faith forever life to all, his descendants, and fulfilled life through "The Spirit" for all mankind 2000 years later with His Son.

Peace to all,
Stephen

Has anyone ever wondered that in Acts 2:41 that the Greek word WATER // HUDOR is not found in Acts 2:41 .

And who were these THREE THOUSAND souls belong to ??

It cannot be the BODY OF CHRIST was not YET known , Period .

So that means that they part of Israel and verse 47 that the Lord was ADDING to that ASSEMBLY daily the ones being saved .
And the words ADDING // PROSTITHEMI is in the Greek IMPERFECT TENSE meaning that Christ would stop adding to that

ASSEMBLY and is in the ACTIVE VOICE and in the INDICATIVE MOOD which means you better believe it .

So what was then preaching that saved those at PENTECOST , is in Acts 2:38 .

Water Baptism is just ONE of the biggest dividers in the body of Christ , for today !!

dan p

 

[Stephen Andrew]

Peace to all,

There are several Pentecost in the Bible.
To me the baptism of John and the River Jordan to his cousin Christ is the baptism of the Pentecost of the flesh. to me it is the introduction into the church sanctifying the spirit also in the soul of the being in the body of Christ. Christ spirit did not need sanctification, but a spirit can be re-sanctified, but not the flesh. To me baptism is once to the flesh and in communion and re-sanctification regenerating the Holy Spirit will, in the soul at repentance penance and communion.

To me, this is the logic of Christ’s spirit had to be baptized, even though he was conceived by the Holy Spirit person and was sanctified, Baptism was for his flesh to become sanctified through the power of baptism so that he could die of the flesh and become glorified transfigured into the image of the Father.

We know, Baptism and Penance are the sacrament of the dead to life for the flesh and the soul, respectively and in order for Christ flesh to become glorified he had to die through baptism and rise, resurrected through His penance as the Sacrificial Lamb and The Eternal Priestly Authority. Baptism is through the flesh to the spirit in the soul of the being.

We know, God said, This is the well pleasing state of the being with the sanctified spirit and sanctified flesh through the baptism of the Christ.

The real intelligence of the Holy Spirit will of God is what manifest eternity.

To me the second coming of the Christ is the transfiguration by the Holy Spirit will of God into the reimaging by the Father.

No artificial AI intelligence allowed.

Peace always,
Stephen Andrew

 

[Dan Perez]

Good day,

An exegetical question for you if you're willing. I am wrestling with Romans 6 and Paul's reference to baptism in v4. I always approached this text with the idea that Paul was referring to the rite of water baptism. After reading around on this, it seems like there are good reasons for rejecting this. (this is not about paedo/credo baptism)

Just consider these reasons which I found to be rather convincing. Could the same man that wrote,

• "I thank God I baptized none of you but Crispus and Gaius" and
• "Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the Gospel." and
• "circumcision is nothing."

go on to write that by water baptism we are buried into Christ's death (Rom 6)? which I take to be a reference to union with Christ? How could Paul on the one hand show such disinterest in the outward ceremonies of baptism and circumcision and then teach that water baptism represents something as significant as "uniting us to Christ" in Romans 6? Nothing is more important for Paul than union with Christ; I think that is pretty clear. Furthermore, Paul seems quite uninterested in the ritual of water baptism. So....why do we believe that Paul is thinking of water baptism in Romans 6? Isn't it far more likely that Paul is referring here to Spirit baptism as in 1Cor 12:13? That seems to be a more consistent way to understand Romans 6.

Now I understand that all the commentators are against me on this; but why?

And in 1 Cor 1:14 Paul says by the Holy Spirit , I give THANKS to God that I BAPTIZE // BAPTISO , none of you , except Crispus and

Gaius ,

And here is just one answer as to why Paul could never water baptize NO ONE .

Verse 15 reads LEST // ME , is a Disjuncative Particle Negative , means Paul can never water baptize anyoneeeeee one

Lest anyone should says that I had BAPTIZED , READ CAREFULLY , for my NAME .

And your thoughts on 1 Cor 10:2 And All were BAPTIZED unto Moses in the CLOUD and in the SEA .

How WERE they Baptized into Moses ?

dan p

 

[Dan Perez]

Good day,

An exegetical question for you if you're willing. I am wrestling with Romans 6 and Paul's reference to baptism in v4. I always approached this text with the idea that Paul was referring to the rite of water baptism. After reading around on this, it seems like there are good reasons for rejecting this. (this is not about paedo/credo baptism)

Just consider these reasons which I found to be rather convincing. Could the same man that wrote,

• "I thank God I baptized none of you but Crispus and Gaius" and
• "Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the Gospel." and
• "circumcision is nothing."

go on to write that by water baptism we are buried into Christ's death (Rom 6)? which I take to be a reference to union with Christ? How could Paul on the one hand show such disinterest in the outward ceremonies of baptism and circumcision and then teach that water baptism represents something as significant as "uniting us to Christ" in Romans 6? Nothing is more important for Paul than union with Christ; I think that is pretty clear. Furthermore, Paul seems quite uninterested in the ritual of water baptism. So....why do we believe that Paul is thinking of water baptism in Romans 6? Isn't it far more likely that Paul is referring here to Spirit baptism as in 1Cor 12:13? That seems to be a more consistent way to understand Romans 6.

Now I understand that all the commentators are against me on this; but why?

Just check the Greek text , on Rom 6: 4 the word BAPTISM is not in the Greek text as it is the Greek word BAPTISMA , meaning the HOLY SPIRIT as written in Eph 4:5 where it reads ONE LORD , ONE FAITH , ONE BAPTISMA is what the Greek

says , meaning the Holy Spirit

dan p

 

[Doug Brents]

Just check the Greek text , on Rom 6: 4 the word BAPTISM is not in the Greek text as it is the Greek word BAPTISMA , meaning the HOLY SPIRIT as written in Eph 4:5 where it reads ONE LORD , ONE FAITH , ONE BAPTISMA is what the Greek

says , meaning the Holy Spirit

dan p

You don't learn from what you are told. You and I covered this thoroughly some months back, but you are still hanging on this improper interpretation. Baptisma does not indicate the Holy Spirit. Baptisma is the Greek noun that means immersion, nothing more. It could be immersion into water, or the Holy Spirit, or a language, or a culture.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Good day,

An exegetical question for you if you're willing. I am wrestling with Romans 6 and Paul's reference to baptism in v4. I always approached this text with the idea that Paul was referring to the rite of water baptism. After reading around on this, it seems like there are good reasons for rejecting this. (this is not about paedo/credo baptism)

Just consider these reasons which I found to be rather convincing. Could the same man that wrote,

• "I thank God I baptized none of you but Crispus and Gaius" and
• "Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the Gospel." and
• "circumcision is nothing."

go on to write that by water baptism we are buried into Christ's death (Rom 6)? which I take to be a reference to union with Christ? How could Paul on the one hand show such disinterest in the outward ceremonies of baptism and circumcision and then teach that water baptism represents something as significant as "uniting us to Christ" in Romans 6? Nothing is more important for Paul than union with Christ; I think that is pretty clear. Furthermore, Paul seems quite uninterested in the ritual of water baptism. So....why do we believe that Paul is thinking of water baptism in Romans 6? Isn't it far more likely that Paul is referring here to Spirit baptism as in 1Cor 12:13? That seems to be a more consistent way to understand Romans 6.

Now I understand that all the commentators are against me on this; but why?

Yes, you are correct, I also do not believe Paul is referring to water baptism but a spiritual immersion into Christ where the seed “Christ” is entered into our hearts planted as it were and we are planted together inwardly with him and as a seed dies and breaks open then them life comes forth we ajso in Christ are risen to a new life in the spirit.

Romans 6: 5. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6. Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.”

This is a deeply spiritual understanding. And it is by the Spirit that we are baptized into Christ and this is a baptism by the Spirit into the body of Christ which all believers have. Not water baptism outwardly. The Jewish believers still followed the law and customs and Johns water baptism for a time (read Acts 15,and 21), even though in Acts 1 Jesus told them that John baptized with water (past tense) but they should be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

1 Corinthians 12: 13. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.”

Galatians 3: 27. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.”

Romans 6: 3. Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?”

Notice the words baptized (immersed) into Jesus Christ. This is not into water but into Jesus Christ.

And a thing sone without hands an inward circumcision, baptism.

 

[David Lamb]

Just check the Greek text , on Rom 6: 4 the word BAPTISM is not in the Greek text as it is the Greek word BAPTISMA , meaning the HOLY SPIRIT as written in Eph 4:5 where it reads ONE LORD , ONE FAITH , ONE BAPTISMA is what the Greek

says , meaning the Holy Spirit

dan p

Sorry, do you really mean that the Greek word "baptisma" means "Holy Spirit"? What dictionary or concordance are you using? The word "baptisma" means "immersion", "baptism".

 

[Dan Perez]

You don't learn from what you are told. You and I covered this thoroughly some months back, but you are still hanging on this improper interpretation. Baptisma does not indicate the Holy Spirit. Baptisma is the Greek noun that means immersion, nothing more. It could be immersion into water, or the Holy Spirit, or a language, or a culture.

And Eph is written , ONE LORD , ONE FAITH , ONE BAPTISM ??

ONE // HEIS means ONE , ONLY .

So what what does ONE // HEIS , FAITH than mean ?? What was Paul preaching , the Old Covenant ?

Or was PAUL preaching Grace , as in Eph 2:8 !!

And what does ONE // HEIS , BAPTISMA then mean , with a verse help all ??

Anyone that checks the Greek Text will see that Eph 4:5 reads ONE BAPTISMA !!

I have yet to find a Greek word , for immersion and give me a verse , that I missed ?

The Greek word BAPTISMA is used 22 times from Matt 3:7 thru 1 Peter 3:21 !!

Also notice that the Greek word for WATER // HUDOR is not in Eph 4:5 !!

dan p

 

[Doug Brents]

And Eph is written , ONE LORD , ONE FAITH , ONE BAPTISM ??

ONE // HEIS means ONE , ONLY .

So what what does ONE // HEIS , FAITH than mean ?? What was Paul preaching , the Old Covenant ?

Or was PAUL preaching Grace , as in Eph 2:8 !!

In the NT Church there is only one faith, one person in whom we have faith (the one Lord, Jesus Christ). Paul was teaching the Gospel, not the Old Covenant.

Your question about grace indicates a false understanding of Eph 2:8-9. Salvation is the gift (grace) that we receive from God. And that gift is received THROUGH faith in.

And what does ONE // HEIS , BAPTISMA then mean , with a verse help all ??

One BAPTISMA (immersion) means just that, there is only one immersion that has any significance in the NT. That one immersion requires water as indicated by 1 Pet 3:21, John 3:5, Acts 8:36, and others).

Anyone that checks the Greek Text will see that Eph 4:5 reads ONE BAPTISMA !!

I have yet to find a Greek word , for immersion and give me a verse , that I missed ?

The Greek word BAPTISMA is used 22 times from Matt 3:7 thru 1 Peter 3:21 !!

Also notice that the Greek word for WATER // HUDOR is not in Eph 4:5 !!

dan p

Dan, this is ridiculous. The Greek word BAPTISMA means IMMERSION. Any time you see the Greek word BAPTISMA, you are seeing the English word iMMERSION. They both mean the exact same thing. So those 22 times that BAPTISMA is used in the NT are 22 times that IMMERSION is in the NT. The Greek word for water does not need to be in Eph 4:5, because there is only one IMMERSION in the NT Church, and as noted above, that immersion requires water and human effort as indicated by Matt 28:19.

 

[Dan Perez]

In the NT Church there is only one faith, one person in whom we have faith (the one Lord, Jesus Christ). Paul was teaching the Gospel, not the Old Covenant.

Your question about grace indicates a false understanding of Eph 2:8-9. Salvation is the gift (grace) that we receive from God. And that gift is received THROUGH faith in.

One BAPTISMA (immersion) means just that, there is only one immersion that has any significance in the NT. That one immersion requires water as indicated by 1 Pet 3:21, John 3:5, Acts 8:36, and others).

Dan, this is ridiculous. The Greek word BAPTISMA means IMMERSION. Any time you see the Greek word BAPTISMA, you are seeing the English word iMMERSION. They both mean the exact same thing. So those 22 times that BAPTISMA is used in the NT are 22 times that IMMERSION is in the NT. The Greek word for water does not need to be in Eph 4:5, because there is only one IMMERSION in the NT Church, and as noted above, that immersion requires water and human effort as indicated by Matt 28:19.

And you do have a verse that has IMMERSION and I checked VINE'S Greek Dictionary and could not find a Greek word IMMERSION , will you say or know it can be found . please ?? I always give a verse , so help us ??

But VINE'S does have the Greek word BAPTISMA and found it in 1 Peter 3:21 and in Eph 4:5 and in Matt 3:7

dan p

 

[Doug Brents]

And you do have a verse that has IMMERSION and I checked VINE'S Greek Dictionary and could not find a Greek word IMMERSION , will you say or know it can be found . please ?? I always give a verse , so help us ??

But VINE'S does have the Greek word BAPTISMA and found it in 1 Peter 3:21 and in Eph 4:5 and in Matt 3:7

dan p

For the slowest in class (@Dan Perez), I will say it one last time: the Greek word BAPTISMA is the English noun IMMERSION, just as the Greek word BAPTISO is the English verb TO IMMERSE. You will not find IMMERSION in the Greek text, because it is an English word. Just as you will not find BAPTISMA in the English text, because it is a Greek word. Wherever you find BAPTISMA in the Greek text it means IMMERSION. As you say, BAPTISMA is found in 1 Pet 3:21, Eph 4:5 and Matt 3:7, so in those verses you find the Greek word that, in English, means IMMERSION. How much more clearly can I say it?

 

[Dan Perez]

Yes, you are correct, I also do not believe Paul is referring to water baptism but a spiritual immersion into Christ where the seed “Christ” is entered into our hearts planted as it were and we are planted together inwardly with him and as a seed dies and breaks open then them life comes forth we ajso in Christ are risen to a new life in the spirit.

Romans 6: 5. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6. Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.”

This is a deeply spiritual understanding. And it is by the Spirit that we are baptized into Christ and this is a baptism by the Spirit into the body of Christ which all believers have. Not water baptism outwardly. The Jewish believers still followed the law and customs and Johns water baptism for a time (read Acts 15,and 21), even though in Acts 1 Jesus told them that John baptized with water (past tense) but they should be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

1 Corinthians 12: 13. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.”

Galatians 3: 27. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.”

Romans 6: 3. Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?”

Notice the words baptized (immersed) into Jesus Christ. This is not into water but into Jesus Christ.

And a thing sone without hands an inward circumcision, baptism.

And you said that Paul is REFFERING not to water baptism , BUT to a SPIRITUAL IMMERSION , and hope that you have

a VERSE ??

And in Rom 6:3 Or are you IGNORANT , that as many were BAPTIZED into Christ JESUS were BAPTIZED into his DEATH !!

AND you know that the two Greek words in verse 3 are the Greek words BAPTISMA , and what does BAPTISMA

really mean with a verse , THAT Greek word BAPISMA is used 22 times , from Matthew too 1 Peter 3:21 , so

what say you ??

dan p

 

[LoveofTruth]

And you said that Paul is REFFERING not to water baptism , BUT to a SPIRITUAL IMMERSION , and hope that you have

a VERSE ??

And in Rom 6:3 Or are you IGNORANT , that as many were BAPTIZED into Christ JESUS were BAPTIZED into his DEATH !!

AND you know that the two Greek words in verse 3 are the Greek words BAPTISMA , and what does BAPTISMA

really mean with a verse , THAT Greek word BAPISMA is used 22 times , from Matthew too 1 Peter 3:21 , so

what say you ??

dan p

It means to immerse into something it is a figure in many verses of our being immersed into Jesus Christ at salvation.

 

[Dan Perez]

Peace to all,

To me Paul received the Spirit, on the road to Damascus, blinded by "The Light" and was able to transform the gentiles without the Gentiles in the area even being Baptized. With Paul, was Peter, who said who would not baptize those Paul gave the Spirit unto. Then after they receivd the Spirit from Paul they were later Baptized by the water Baptism that John preached. The gentiles were so reverent that they had a temple for all their Gods, and even had a temple of the unknown God, This is the opportunity Paul took to walk right in, and evangelized and gave the Holy Spirit Baptism, the Pentecost to the Gentiles to The Temple of the Unknown God of the Gentiles, we now know and recognize as Jesus.

Peace always,
Stephen

And Saul / Paul NEVER did water BAPTIZE anyone at all and he BAPTIZED NO one with WATER //HUDOR , Unless

you have a verse !!

Water baptism was GIVEN TO Israel in John 1:31 and not to the BODY of Christ !!

dan p