Maine moves to join Democratic-led pact to elect president by popular vote instead of Electoral College

[stevil]

Joe, after his administration pledged transparency, was secretly flying these people in.

Do you have any reference links?
Any details about what is meant by "secretly flying people in"?
As far as I understand it, the government weren't flying anyone in.

When caught Biden refused to supply specifics. His administration has CONSISTENTLY lied about the border being safe, secure, and closed. Why won't he produce the vetting records for these people you say are not violent criminals?

Why won't you provide specifics of your allegation?
Was Biden a secret pilot in disguise, and flying people in during the middle of the night when no one was watching?
How did Biden gather up violent criminals to be passangers on his plane? Did he find them in foriegn prisons? Did he post adverts saying only violent criminals should apply?
Or was it the FBI or CIA or Antifa that was operating these planes?
Did they land somewhere, or did these violent criminals parachute in?
Give specifics about your allegation, as well as links to evidence on what these allegations are based.

When did he vet them, where and when did the transports take place, how much money did it cost? You can bet it was taxpayer money, not money from the Biden fortune.

These allegations sound like Russia propaganda to me. Please provide evidence supporting your allegations.

Why do you think crime has taken such a dramatic drop in Venezuela?

Crime has taken a dramatic drop in USA under Biden's administration.

 

[comana]

So you would feel safe keeping your valuables in an unmanned dropbox? There needs to be observers who are not Democrats, and we cannot let Biden and his people contracted from the federal government to take over the collecting of ballots, from drop boxes or other places, unobserved.

What are you even talking about? Local election workers handle this.

 

[stevil]

Joe, after his administration pledged transparency, was secretly flying these people in.

There was no secrecy.
On 25 October 2022 A Congressional Research Service report was published explaining the implementation of the Venezuelan humanitarian asylum option in October 2022.

Then In January 2023, when the humanitarian parole program expanded, the DHS published a notice in the Federal Register explicitly stating that the program was capped at 30,000 total migrants per month and had been extended to Cubans, Haitians, and Nicaraguans.

Also people weren't flown in. It was up to asylum seekers to make there own way to any port of entry. The govt did not provide flights.

When caught Biden refused to supply specifics.

LOL. Biden was not caught, there was no secrecy, the details were published in advance.

When did he vet them,

To participate, eligible beneficiaries receiving ATAs must "have a supporter in the United States" and "undergo and clear robust security vetting." Their supporters must agree "to provide them with financial support for the duration of their parole in the United States."

where and when did the transports take place,

There were no govt provided transports

how much money did it cost? You can bet it was taxpayer money, not money from the Biden fortune.There is a long list of professional people who love American who have applied legally to get into this country.

"Their supporters must agree "to provide them with financial support for the duration of their parole in the United States."

Instead Joe has allowed many unvetted criminals from countries that dislike the United States.

They were vetted as a requirement of the program

Joe and the rest should be prosecuted as accessories for the violent crimes that have been committed.

LOL, right wing propaganda, easily refuted.

 

[Valletta]

There was no secrecy.
. . .

They were vetted as a requirement of the program

LOL, right wing propaganda, easily refuted.

You are in denial. The secrecy is real. They were not properly vetted. These horrendous crimes are real. Governor Desantis speaks to this in the following clip:

"We know it's illegal and not constitutional. And you saw this in since recently someone that Biden flew into America, ended up in Massachusetts, now is under charges for sexual assault against a developmentally disabled 14 year old girl. Now that is something that would have been prevented had they just followed the law."

DeSantis Slams Biden's Illegal Secret Migrant Flights

Ron DeSantis: "We know the programs going on. We're suing over it... We know it's illegal and not constitutional... We're going to keep at it until the Constitution is respected!"

rumble.com

 

[stevil]

You are in denial. The secrecy is real. They were not properly vetted. These horrendous crimes are real. Governor Desantis speaks to this in the following clip:

"We know it's illegal and not constitutional. And you saw this in since recently someone that Biden flew into America, ended up in Massachusetts, now is under charges for sexual assault against a developmentally disabled 14 year old girl. Now that is something that would have been prevented had they just followed the law."

DeSantis Slams Biden's Illegal Secret Migrant Flights

Ron DeSantis: "We know the programs going on. We're suing over it... We know it's illegal and not constitutional... We're going to keep at it until the Constitution is respected!"

rumble.com

People are people. I'm sure holiday tourists have sexually assaulted USA people, citizens have sexually assaulted USA people. I even know of an ex-president that has sexually assaulted a USA woman.
The only way to guarantee no sexual assault would be to have no people at all in USA.

Do you have any evidence to show that these immigrants getting parole have not been properly vetted?

 

[Valletta]

People are people. I'm sure holiday tourists have sexually assaulted USA people, citizens have sexually assaulted USA people. I even know of an ex-president that has sexually assaulted a USA woman.
The only way to guarantee no sexual assault would be to have no people at all in USA.

Do you have any evidence to show that these immigrants getting parole have not been properly vetted?

I have heard that logic before. We have always had crime, and crimes will always occur, so what's the harm in releasing violent criminals into the U.S. population? Evidence? Yes, the huge amount of violent crime committed by these individuals. As to specific records, Joe, Mr. Transparency, has refused to release many records that have been requested.

 

[stevil]

I have heard that logic before. We have always had crime, and crimes will always occur, so what's the harm in releasing violent criminals into the U.S. population? Evidence? Yes, the huge amount of violent crime committed by these individuals.

I've read that immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than USA citizens.

As to specific records, Joe, Mr. Transparency, has refused to release many records that have been requested.

The burdon is on you, the accusor to present your evidence.

 

[rambot]

To return to the topic (assuming the title is the topic), as an outsider, I find the existence of the Electoral College kind of insulting. I'm actually surprised more Americans aren't batting down doors to get rid of it....

It's a remnant from a time when all of the great unwashed masses were thought to not have the perspicacity, adroitness, intelligence or opposable digits to select a leader through an election. And the ONLY way it could work is if some rich white landowner confirmed that that was a good choice.

 

[Valletta]

I've read that immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than USA citizens.

The burdon is on you, the accusor to present your evidence.

Actually Joe's administration pledged transparency and are withholding the data after legal requests.

 

[Pommer]

Actually Joe's administration pledged transparency and are withholding the data after legal requests.

This is merely Institutional inertia, not a directive by POTUS (whomever it happens to be); anything that isn’t usually released as a matter of course is subjected to the FOIA regimen (lawsuit).

 

[Valletta]

This is merely Institutional inertia, not a directive by POTUS (whomever it happens to be); anything that isn’t usually released as a matter of course is subjected to the FOIA regimen (lawsuit).

Actually a FOIA lawsuit can be filed for any records that the President or his subordinates decide to withhold from the public. Unfortunately the FOIA process can take decades.

Biden Aims for “Highest Standards of Transparency” - Federation of American Scientists

“In a democracy, the public deserves as much transparency as possible regarding the work of our national security institutions, consistent with legitimate needs to protect sources and methods and sensitive foreign relationships,” according to a memorandum issued by President Biden on February 4...

fas.org

 

[driewerf]

In this way, by allowing enough illegals to vote in one state (require no ID) and flooding a lax-rule state with mail-in-ballots, Democrats can very much be in the driver's seat for the presidential election. Maine would be the recipient of such cheating taking place in a different part of the country.

I hope that you realize that electing a president by popular vote instead of the Electoral College make fraud actually more difficult.

 

[driewerf]

Joe, after his administration pledged transparency, was secretly flying these people in.

A secret so secret that you know about it and can share it on CF;
Imagine that folk's, we get Biden Administration's secrets her exclusively on CF.

 

[Desk trauma]

A secret so secret that you know about it and can share it on CF;
Imagine that folk's, we get Biden Administration's secrets her exclusively on CF.

Yeah what do you think this is, discord?

 

[AlexB23]

"The state would join 16 other states that have already agreed to support the presidential candidate that wins the popular vote. But the 16-state compact would only be activated if they have a total of 270 Electoral College votes, which would decide the presidential election."

Maine moves to join Democratic-led pact to elect president by popular vote instead of Electoral College - Washington Examiner

A new Maine bill was passed by the state House on Tuesday night, which would tie Maine’s Electoral College votes for president to the country’s popular vote.

www.washingtonexaminer.com

"No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any Duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay."

In this way, by allowing enough illegals to vote in one state (require no ID) and flooding a lax-rule state with mail-in-ballots, Democrats can very much be in the driver's seat for the presidential election. Maine would be the recipient of such cheating taking place in a different part of the country.

Man, this is a contentious issue, so I will break it down for you guys, as that is my duty here. A pros and cons list would probably suffice. I will not state my opinion on this one, as sometimes it is best to look at both sides.

The debate over using a popular vote instead of the Electoral College system in electing the President of the United States has been an ongoing topic of discussion. Here are some pros and cons of each system. A Pew Research article shows some stats about both systems. My pros and cons list is partially based off of the stuff said on this website: Electoral College Pros and Cons - Top 3 Arguments For and Against

Pros of Popular Vote:
1. Every Vote Counts Equally: In a popular vote system, each individual vote carries the same weight, regardless of where it is cast. This means that every voter in a state or district has an equal say in who becomes President, unlike in the Electoral College system where some votes may be more influential than others due to differing numbers of electors per state.

2. Direct Reflection of the People's Will: A popular vote system would result in a President who has received the most votes from the entire electorate, making it a more direct reflection of the people's will.

3. Simplification of the Election Process: A popular vote system could potentially simplify the election process as it would eliminate the need for complex state-by-state electoral calculations and campaign strategies.

Cons of Popular Vote:
1. Small States Disadvantaged: Small states may feel disadvantaged in a popular vote system as their voices could potentially be overshadowed by larger, more populous states.

2. Potential for Winner-Takes-All Elections: In a popular vote system, there is a risk that the winner may take all the electoral votes in a state based on winning the majority of votes within that state. This could lead to situations where a candidate wins the popular vote but loses the election due to not securing enough electoral votes.

3. Immigration Issues: With a popular vote system, there could be potential challenges around allowing non-citizens or undocumented immigrants to participate in the election. This is not an issue with the Electoral College system, as eligibility for electors is determined by state laws.

4. Voter ID Requirements: In a popular vote system, there could be challenges in implementing uniform voter identification requirements across the country. The Electoral College system allows for state-level control of election rules and procedures, including voter ID laws.

5. Potential for Increased Polarization: A popular vote system may lead to increased polarization between red and blue states, as winning a national majority could require campaigning in only a handful of swing states. This could potentially widen the political divide between different regions of the country.

 

[JSRG]

"The state would join 16 other states that have already agreed to support the presidential candidate that wins the popular vote. But the 16-state compact would only be activated if they have a total of 270 Electoral College votes, which would decide the presidential election."

Maine moves to join Democratic-led pact to elect president by popular vote instead of Electoral College - Washington Examiner

A new Maine bill was passed by the state House on Tuesday night, which would tie Maine’s Electoral College votes for president to the country’s popular vote.

www.washingtonexaminer.com

"No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any Duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay."

Firstly, even if this does count as an "agreement or compact" under Article I Section 10, all it would mean is that congress has to agree to it. An extra step, but not an impossible one.

However, it is not far from clear whether this indeed count as an "agreement or compact" under what the above actually is referring to. The organization advocating for this change has a rather lengthy argument on why it doesn't even require that here (click the "Click for Detailed Answer" under 9.16.5 to see it), and certainly too lengthy for me to put it all here. But, should one wish to see their "quick answer" (which, again, is gone into with much more detail if you go to the page and "Click for Detailed Answer"):

• The U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that congressional consent is only necessary for interstate compacts that “encroach upon or interfere with the just supremacy of the United States.” Because the choice of method of appointing presidential electors is an “exclusive” and “plenary” state power, there is no encroachment on federal authority.
• Thus, under established compact jurisprudence, congressional consent would not be necessary for the National Popular Vote compact to become effective.
• Nonetheless, National Popular Vote is working to obtain support for the compact in Congress.

 

[7thKeeper]

Pros of Popular Vote:
1. Every Vote Counts Equally: In a popular vote system, each individual vote carries the same weight, regardless of where it is cast. This means that every voter in a state or district has an equal say in who becomes President, unlike in the Electoral College system where some votes may be more influential than others due to differing numbers of electors per state.

2. Direct Reflection of the People's Will: A popular vote system would result in a President who has received the most votes from the entire electorate, making it a more direct reflection of the people's will.

3. Simplification of the Election Process: A popular vote system could potentially simplify the election process as it would eliminate the need for complex state-by-state electoral calculations and campaign strategies.

Cons of Popular Vote:
1. Small States Disadvantaged: Small states may feel disadvantaged in a popular vote system as their voices could potentially be overshadowed by larger, more populous states.

I do not understand this point. President is federal position, serving all the states. How is a vote in a smaller state lessened compared to a vote in a larger state? Both have equal say, and state specific issues are more down to state governments and Senate/House than the president.

2. Potential for Winner-Takes-All Elections: In a popular vote system, there is a risk that the winner may take all the electoral votes in a state based on winning the majority of votes within that state. This could lead to situations where a candidate wins the popular vote but loses the election due to not securing enough electoral votes.

This was listed as a con for popular vote, but isn't this a con for electoral college?

3. Immigration Issues: With a popular vote system, there could be potential challenges around allowing non-citizens or undocumented immigrants to participate in the election. This is not an issue with the Electoral College system, as eligibility for electors is determined by state laws.

The voting remains the same, so discussions of non-citizens voting is the same in both systems.

4. Voter ID Requirements: In a popular vote system, there could be challenges in implementing uniform voter identification requirements across the country. The Electoral College system allows for state-level control of election rules and procedures, including voter ID laws.

In the proposed system, the electoral college still exists beneath the popular vote. Voting is still done on a state level. Nothing changes in these two systems.

5. Potential for Increased Polarization: A popular vote system may lead to increased polarization between red and blue states, as winning a national majority could require campaigning in only a handful of swing states. This could potentially widen the political divide between different regions of the country.

Isn't this a pure electoral college system con and not a popular vote con? Or at the very least, it's the same issue in both systems of where you choose to campaign for the maximum amount of votes. Doesn't seem to change in either system to me.

 

[Nithavela]

"No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any Duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay."

So they'll just have to get the consent of congress once they have their ducks lined up. I don't see the problem.

 

[AlexB23]

I do not understand this point. President is federal position, serving all the states. How is a vote in a smaller state lessened compared to a vote in a larger state? Both have equal say, and state specific issues are more down to state governments and Senate/House than the president.

This was listed as a con for popular vote, but isn't this a con for electoral college?

The voting remains the same, so discussions of non-citizens voting is the same in both systems.

In the proposed system, the electoral college still exists beneath the popular vote. Voting is still done on a state level. Nothing changes in these two systems.

Isn't this a pure electoral college system con and not a popular vote con? Or at the very least, it's the same issue in both systems of where you choose to campaign for the maximum amount of votes. Doesn't seem to change in either system to me.

I was just reflecting what the pro/con website says, and I kinda rushed summarizing it, so sorry about the mistakes. To be honest, I am for popular votes.

 

[7thKeeper]

I was just reflecting what the pro/con website says, and I kinda rushed summarizing it, so sorry about the mistakes. To be honest, I am for popular votes.

Ah, I figured some of those were just editing errors. No worries!