Lying on the forum

[GodBeMercifulToMeASinner]

I don't see the difference.
Is it wicked for a person to cause someone else's
Faith to be questioned?

Is there anything that should never be questioned,
any belief that is impossible to be mistaken?

There is a big difference, between a non-believer making some statements on their beliefs that may cause a Christian to wonder..and a hypocrite ‘Christian’ who is so non-Christlike it causes a believer to wonder..maybe I was wrong, these ‘pagans’ I know are more Christ-like..it’s a very big, big difference.

It isn’t wrong to question anything, in fact..I highly recommend it. I highly question the ‘Christian’ religious system. Adherents of ‘churchianity’ don’t like that. But they cannot biblically refute what I say nor can they even engage without gaslighting, projection, deflection, distortion, and other non-Christlike tendencies. They only attack the messenger. Just like the religious hypocrite pharisees did to the Lord Jesus Christ. Very telling indeed. As it once was, it will be again (Ecclesiastes 1:9).

 

[Estrid]

There is a big difference, between a non-believer making some statements on their beliefs that may cause a Christian to wonder..and a hypocrite ‘Christian’ who is so non-Christlike it causes a believer to wonder..maybe I was wrong, these ‘pagans’ I know are more Christ-like..it’s a very big, big difference.

It isn’t wrong to question anything, in fact..I highly recommend it. I highly question the ‘Christian’ religious system. Adherents of ‘churchianity’ don’t like that. But they cannot biblically refute what I say nor can they even engage without gaslighting, projection, deflection, distortion, and other non-Christlike tendencies. They only attack the messenger. Just like the religious hypocrite pharisees did to the Lord Jesus Christ. Very telling indeed. As it once was, it will be again (Ecclesiastes 1:9).

Ok that sounds good, and far more realistically
fair minded than what i hear from many christians
or, ftm, what the Bible itself says about how
rotten evil nasty and bad all atheists are.

I wonder what you mean by " question" though?

Does it mean that all things are properly open
to not just question but a change from belief to
disbelief?

 

[Ophiolite]

I don't see the difference.
Is it wicked for a person to cause someone else's
Faith to be questioned?

Is there anything that should never be questioned,
any belief that is impossible to be mistaken?

I think you have misunderstood @GodBeMercifulToMeASinner's point. The wicked people did not question his faith. There behaviour made him question his own faith because he thought "These people behave in this improper way and yet profess the same believes I have. Could my beliefs be mistaken?" @GodBeMercifulToMeASinner , do I have that right?

He is not objecting to the questioning of a persons faith, although here in this tiny portion of the world I understand it is against forum guidelines.

Edit: I have cross posted. I did not see the previous two posts.

 

[Estrid]

I think you have misunderstood @GodBeMercifulToMeASinner's point. The wicked people did not question his faith. There behaviour made him question his own faith because he thought "These people behave in this improper way and yet profess the same believes I have. Could my beliefs be mistaken?" @GodBeMercifulToMeASinner , do I have that right?

He is not objecting to the questioning of a persons faith, although here in this tiny portion of the world I understand it is against forum guidelines.

Edit: I have cross posted. I did not see the previous two posts.

Thanks. I do understand it now.
I've had people try to " rend asunder" my relationships
with those dear to me.
 That is evil.

 

[GodBeMercifulToMeASinner]

Ok that sounds good, and far more realistically
fair minded than what i hear from many christians
or, ftm, what the Bible itself says about how
rotten evil nasty and bad all atheists are.

I wonder what you mean by " question" though?

Does it mean that all things are properly open
to not just question but a change from belief to
disbelief?

Well, the way I read it; it isn’t so much ‘atheists’ whom the Bible is saying are the ‘evil’ and ‘nasty’ ones. A study of the NT will show that it was false believers; the hypocrite religionists whom Christ was most harsh with, whom He sternly rebuked. He referred to them as dogs, hypocrites, snakes, children of the devil, blind, and more. Read Matthew ch. 23..ain’t atheists He is talking about.

Same for Paul, Peter and John..they were warning the brethren of hypocrites, false teachers, and even instructed the brethren to throw them out of the church, have nothing to do with them.

My point was, there is a world of difference between a non-believer discussing their views which may cause a Christian to ponder, and someone who claims to be of God who is basically everything He hates. Not to say He hates them, but rather what they are..liars.

If someone wants to change from belief to disbelief, it isn’t my place to impose my ways on them. I believe people should be able to make their own choices, whether I may agree with them or not. Christ never imposed His will on anyone, He just said His piece and went about His business.

I think you have misunderstood @GodBeMercifulToMeASinner's point. The wicked people did not question his faith. There behaviour made him question his own faith because he thought "These people behave in this improper way and yet profess the same believes I have. Could my beliefs be mistaken?" @GodBeMercifulToMeASinner , do I have that right?

He is not objecting to the questioning of a persons faith, although here in this tiny portion of the world I understand it is against forum guidelines.

Edit: I have cross posted. I did not see the previous two posts.

Yeah that is it more or less..but to be more precise, what I found and still find particularly distasteful is the ‘Christians’ who always virtue signal on about ‘love’, ‘ grace’, ‘charity’, ‘peace’, and all that yet have none of such at all, quite the opposite. It’s like Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dahmer trying to lecture someone on the value of human life LOL. And the reason they virtue signal on about those things while not practicing themselves, is an attempt to CONTROL their opposition. A power play, which I can see straight through.

Now here is the real kicker..the same professing Christians who love to virtue signal on love and grace and all that are the same ones who will take up for murderous tyrants like Martin Luther, or John Calvin, very unchristian ‘Christian’ leaders who had people put to death for disagreeing with their false doctrines. I can’t help but smile when someone tries to scold me about ‘love’ when they take up for murderers.

But wait, there’s even more! Yes! Believe it or not. Let’s say these same people were to pick up a newspaper and see that a random unknown everyday nobody religious person had dozens of people put to death for simply disagreeing with them. What are they likely to think? Cult leader, yes? I know that’s what I would think. Odds are that most professing Christians would too. But these professing Christians who take up for murderous ‘reformers’ seem to have glossed over this fun fact from their very own bible:

“But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.”
—James 2:9

“But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.”
—James 3:17

“Ye shall not respect persons in judgment; but ye shall hear the small as well as the great; ye shall not be afraid of the face of man; for the judgment is God's: and the cause that is too hard for you, bring it unto me, and I will hear it.”
—Deuteronomy 1:17

We all know that most professing Christians would not want to be associated with some random everyday nobody who had people put to death while professing to be a man of God..but they even name religious movements after famous historical figures who did just that! You can’t make this up!

So, yeah..I HATE manmade religion, and can’t blame anyone who questions the Christian Faith..there’s many frauds claiming it.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I agree with the premise that we all lie, even if it is in very minor ways. At my job, for example, because of the way I interact with the general public there will be people who stick around to chit-chat. I try to be polite and kind, and so even if I would like them to go away because I'm working, I will keep being polite, and feign interest in what they are telling me. I've no desire to discuss politics at work, for obvious reasons, but some people really want to--and so I listen without being rude. That is, at least technically, being dishonest on my part. But it is dishonesty for the sake of public decorum and courteousness.

I have also, of course, lied through being indirect. Say I am invited to something, but don't wish to go, rather than being direct and saying "I don't want to go", I'll say "I'm not sure about that". Other times I have been more direct in my lying, "Sorry, I already have plans". Though those "plans" are really just staying in on my Saturday and resting.

I've never been comfortable with straight up lying, it's a discomfort that I developed as a child, because I would frequently be accused of lying even when telling the truth, because adults worked on the premise of "kids lie". I would frequently get in trouble for things I never did, which yes did have a negative impact on my psyche. But a consequence is that my underlying fear of not being believed means that I have a tendency toward being overly honest, which unfortunately can also come across as deception--because "defensive honesty" looks a lot like deceit. This is something even in middle age I am trying work through.

At any rate, I tend to try to be honest. Though I do not like to be rude, and so polite dishonesty, something I suspect all of us do, does exist.

But simply fabricating something, whether in the offline world or online world, isn't something I'd be comfortable with. I know for a fact that I have unintentionally been wrong in many things, I've said things--offline and online--which weren't true, but at the time thought it was true. That's not lying, that's just being wrong. I've heard people refer to rabbits as rodents, well that's wrong, because rabbits aren't rodents--but they weren't lying, they were just wrong. That's a pretty big difference.

On forums such as this, where good faith debate frequently happens, I want to have an argument rooted in objective truth, so if I present information I want it to be as accurate as I am able to make it in the moment. There may be things I get wrong, because I have misunderstood a detail, or lack sufficient information on something; but the intent is to be accurate, to be truthful, and to present information that is, in fact, true. Because an argument based upon known falsehood--on deliberate lies--is no argument at all; it would be deeply offensive to conscience and reason. To be wrong means I can be corrected, but to lie just to make my "argument" look better means I have deeper problems, and that I am a bad faith actor. That would be deeply contrary to matters of faith and conscience to me, as a Christian; thought one doesn't need to be a Christian to recognize how such bad faith arguing is harmful; but as a Christian that kind of behavior would be quite obviously sin and is indicative of a need for not only perhaps emotional and psychological help, but [from a Christian POV] more importantly spiritual help, which is where confession, repentance, and good healthy spiritual counseling comes into play.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

If I detect lying or deliberate fabrication, I access their account, hit the ignore button and forever block their posts to me. Simple.

I get fewer notifications which of course is alright with me.