He could be saying "You are no better than anyone else". Remember math? The opposite of greater than is not less than but "less than or equal to."If not what else could you be saying?
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He could be saying "You are no better than anyone else". Remember math? The opposite of greater than is not less than but "less than or equal to."If not what else could you be saying?
So discrimination against the handicapped makes a nation great?
And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Speak unto Aaron, saying, Whosoever he be of thy seed in their generations that hath any blemish, let him not approach to offer the bread of his God.
For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous,
Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded,
Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken;
No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the LORD made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God.
He shall eat the bread of his God, both of the most holy, and of the holy.
Only he shall not go in unto the vail, nor come nigh unto the altar, because he hath a blemish; that he profane not my sanctuaries: for I the LORD do sanctify them. (Leviticus 21:16-23)
He could be saying "You are no better than anyone else"
And you don't believe Christians believe that too? They believe there's lots of things that are a matter of conscience and that people on their spiritual journey are at different levels in their spiritual growth. Paul the Apostle stated to one something may be sin but not to another. There are many things one has to leave between God and that persons conscience. Romans 14:5 There are at times debatable issues. To say though that all things should be open to reasonable questioning and debate is foolishness'. And even from your words if seems you believe there is some white and black thinking that is justified....and people that apply black and white thinking to most anything in life have poor thinking patterns?
I agree.
You know better than the OP what the OP is saying? Please.Even the writer of the OP isn't saying that though. He believes he is.
Uh, no you have not explained that many times. In fact, you have emphatically insisted that, after one has become a Christian, this causes him to become a better person. For instance:
So I am a little curious how you can say you have explained it many times that salvation does not cause one to become a better person.
Got it. Since I am not a believer, I am "unregenerate", at the core rotten, and unable to submit to laws against killing, stealing, or bearing false witness. But Christians are different.
But you are not saying Christians have become morally superior.
Huh?
As I described in the OP, Christians teach that the gospel changes them, and makes them become better people than non-Christians. But you say, "That isn't at all the point of the Gospel."
So do the saved become better than the unsaved or don't they?
Got it. So when you said,
Mark Quayle said: ↑
It is the work of God, from first to last. As a result, they will do the things that mark them as his own. If they do not, they are demonstrating that they are not his own. Regeneration, Belief, Faith, Confession to God, Repentance, Obedience, Pursuing Christ, etc etc are results of the Spirit of God within the believer.
this if full of what the Bible does not teach?
Again, God is the difference, not the person.As if being saved fundamentally changes a person! That's silly. Oh, and being saved fundamentally changes a person.
Wait, what?
See aboveGot it. Christians have become better than people like me, but they haven't become better than people like me.
Huh?
"Works for the apostle Paul" is also a temporary assessment.
Understood. Perhaps I should have said looks at the totality of what he is up against as best he can. I was not saying people have infinite knowledge.
Read modern psychology. Fixed black and white thinking is not healthy.
Seeing you agree with him maybe I know better than you too? Could be some believe that I do. Doesn't matter though as far as I'm concerned. God's assessment is the ONLY thing that's important at the end of the age and I do and will take that seriously. I encourage others to do so as well.You know better than the OP what the OP is saying? Please.
So discrimination against the handicapped makes a nation great?
And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Speak unto Aaron, saying, Whosoever he be of thy seed in their generations that hath any blemish, let him not approach to offer the bread of his God.
For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous,
Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded,
Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken;
No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the LORD made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God.
He shall eat the bread of his God, both of the most holy, and of the holy.
Only he shall not go in unto the vail, nor come nigh unto the altar, because he hath a blemish; that he profane not my sanctuaries: for I the LORD do sanctify them. (Leviticus 21:16-23)
...and people that apply black and white thinking to most anything in life have poor thinking patterns?
I agree.
Sounds like discrimination against the handicapped to me.The priests were a type of Christ, therefore they had to be "without blemish".
Of course not.So you're not actually opposed to someone having a thought they might be morally better then someone else.
The OP is not personal. It is not about any person here judging himself to be morally superior to another person here.You actually do think that way about yourself too.
I am talking about several people here who have argued for months that the only good basis for morality is fixed absolute morals dictated by God. When some of us try to explain why we make moral judgments based on reasoning through the gray areas with good principles, they are opposed to it, and want morality based on rigid absolutes dictated by God.Who says many haven't weighed and assessed what works and what doesn't?
If they feel let's call it Christian principles produces the best results how to you take from that they've just memorized fixed moral absolutes.
Sounds like discrimination against the handicapped to me.
So Jesus would not like to be identified as a handicapped person?
What if Jesus comes back like that
Two months early and hooked on crack
Will we let him in or turn our back
What if Jesus comes back like that?
-- Collin Raye (What If Jesus Comes Back Like That - YouTube)
I think you are confusing thinking you might be better than somebody, and proudly declaring it without considering the feeling of others.So you're not actually opposed to someone having a thought they might be morally better then someone else.
Oh for crying out loud.I don't see the word 'better' in there at all.
I have told you this several dozen times. I am not asking you what causes one to be good, or claiming you say it can be done without God.Again, God is the difference, not the person.
All that Paul wrote are his own personal opinions. If you think God told him what to write, where is your evidence of that claim?Which 'works for Paul' are you referring to? He told us of some things he was not commanded to say, that worked for him, but the things he was commanded to say, are a whole different story from the "works for me" mentality, that justifies a person's mode by the results.
Nope. I did not take a book about a different subject and paraphrase it to be about something else.Yet, once again, you paraphrase > boundaries (i.e. fixed moral absolutes) into 'fixed black and white thinking'.
So if a man claimed that Abraham Lincoln was God and died as a sacrifice for our sins, and you rejected that claim, would you say that you are discriminating against Abraham Lincoln?
Perhaps you can take comfort in the fact that Jesus Christ has been rejected by more people than any one in history. Now that's discrimination.
So if a man claimed that Abraham Lincoln was God and died as a sacrifice for our sins, and you rejected that claim, would you say that you are discriminating against Abraham Lincoln?
Don't ponder too long. It is an easy question to answer.Well that's something to ponder.
Oh for crying out loud.
Speaking of unbelievers you describe them like this:
But in spite of the unregenerate's best efforts, every thing he does, is at the core, rotten. He is self-dependent, opposed to God and unable to submit to God's law.
Speaking of Christians you describe them like this:
It is the work of God, from first to last. As a result, they will do the things that mark them as his own. If they do not, they are demonstrating that they are not his own. Regeneration, Belief, Faith, Confession to God, Repentance, Obedience, Pursuing Christ, etc etc are results of the Spirit of God within the believer
Most people would read those two paragraphs and think you are saying that Christians have become better than non-Christians. You are not saying that?
I have told you this several dozen times. I am not asking you what causes one to be good, or claiming you say it can be done without God.
I am not saying you say the person makes the difference. You are saying God makes the difference.
I am not saying you say the person makes the difference. You are saying God makes the difference.
I am not saying you say the person makes the difference. You are saying God makes the difference.
I am not saying you say the person makes the difference. You are saying God makes the difference.
That didn't make a bit of difference, did it? You will still write back as though I am saying that you are saying that the person makes the difference, right?
Moving the goalposts now? You giving up on your claim or something, and now want to change the debate?All that Paul wrote are his own personal opinions. If you think God told him what to write, where is your evidence of that claim?
Nope. I did not take a book about a different subject and paraphrase it to be about something else.
For instance, I have the book, Feeling Good by Dr. David D. Burns on my bookshelf. On page 42 he gives a list of unhealthy thinking patterns. Number 1 on his list is:
1. ALL-OR-NOTHING THINKING: You see things in black-and-white categories. If your performance falls short of perfect, you see yourself as a total failure. [emphasis in the original]
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no! I am not saying that.If you are saying that the person is a better person than the unregenerate, you are laying the credit on the person, not on God.
lolol that sounds familiar.No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no! I am not saying that.
I have told you dozens of times on this thread and the other thead.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no! I am not saying that. I have told you dozens of times.
When I say that you say Christians have become better than non-Christians, I am not saying that you think they did that on their own.
And what are you going to do? You are going to respond and tell me I am saying the opposite of what I just emphatically said, yes?
Nothing I say matters. I can be emphatic, emphatic, emphatic, and you just smile and tell me I am saying the exact opposite.