Israel-Hamas Thread II

[essentialsaltes]

[8 days ago] Israeli government says it will block Al Jazeera from broadcasting​

The Israeli parliament has approved a law giving the government the power to ban broadcasts of TV channels including Al Jazeera, the Qatari-owned network.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said he would "act immediately" to close the network's local office.

The US expressed concern over the move.

"Al Jazeera will no longer be broadcast from Israel," Mr Netanyahu wrote on Twitter/X, calling the network a "terrorist channel".

 

[Valletta]

US has seen no evidence that Israel has committed genocide, Austin says​

Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin on Tuesday rebuffed arguments that Israel is committing genocide against Palestinians in Gaza, saying he’s seen no evidence to suggest it.
“We don’t have any evidence of genocide being [committed]” by Israel in Gaza, Austin told the Senate Armed Services Committee during a budget hearing, where his testimony was interrupted several times by protesters.

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/09/us-has-seen-no-evidence-that-israel-has-committed-genocide-austin-says-00151241

We have wasted enough time on the outrageous false accusations against Israel.

 

[Philip_B]

I don't think with many Arabs in this region that you are ever going to stop creating terrorist, organizations. It won't matter if you are completely hands off. They will attack. It's who they are. Be nice and they consider it weakness and they'll attack. Be firm and they'll attack because they hate. So there is no way to stop all terrorism. But you can stop something. Make it clear that it won't be tolerated. Israel is better off being strong than weak in the long run.

The response overall is dismissive and problematic. This part of your response however needs to be called out for outright racism.

 

[Valletta]

The response overall is dismissive and problematic. This part of your response however needs to be called out for outright racism.

I think it's more racist to see racism where there is none.

 

[essentialsaltes]

We have wasted enough time on the outrageous false accusations against Israel.

The ICJ will make up its own mind.

 

[Valletta]

The ICJ will make up its own mind.

With all of the pro-Palestinians in the Biden administration we have the admission that not only were the rumors not true, but that there is no evidence whatsoever to support the accusation. Hamas was able to fool a significant number of people, including some Americans. The power of propaganda.

 

[essentialsaltes]

With all of the pro-Palestinians in the Biden administration we have the admission that ... there is no evidence whatsoever to support the accusation.

Austin said he hasn't seen any.

The ICJ says what it has seen makes the South African case 'plausible' enough to continue the process.

 

[Valletta]

Austin said he hasn't seen any.

The ICJ says what it has seen makes the South African case 'plausible' enough to continue the process.

I would hope that the Secretary of Defense of the United States has access to widespread intelligence sources.

 

[essentialsaltes]

I would hope that the Secretary of Defense of the United States has access to widespread intelligence sources.

I would hope the Secretary of State has access, too. But Colin Powell gave us a bum steer.

 

[rjs330]

Regardless of what you believe about Palestinians, the Palestinian people see themselves as a distinct people with deep historical ties to the land that Israel currently occupies. This cannot be denied, and it doesn't matter if you or anyone else refuses to accept their existence; they have and will continue to exist. Recognizing Palestine and the Palestinian people is at the foundation of achieving peace between Israel and the Arab world.

What I believe is irrelevant. What they believe is irrelevant as well. What matters is are the facts. Because the Jews also are themselves as having deep historical ties and they have the greater claim. It's the Arabs that were the occupiers. This cannot be denied.

No one is denying the arabs existence. In fact the Jews don't deny their existence or rights to be. It's actually the Arabs that are the deniers here. THEY are the ones denying Israel's right to exist. The Jews never have.

This is a great question. What would you do if the native Americans started moving to and occupying your state in large numbers and eventually demanded that you and your family move out because it was their ancestral land? Would you resist and try to keep your land and home, or would you just pack up and leave?

It's my question, someone needs to answer it. I don't need to answer my own question.

Since 2007, Israel has imposed an air, land, and sea blockade on the Gaza Strip, restricting the movement of people and goods. Prior to this, there have been blockades of varying degrees dating back to the early 1990s. Israel hasn't given the Palestinians an opportunity to prosper in Gaza, nor does Israel want them to.

If I recall correctly you claim they've had the land for a very long time. So now suddenly they can't do any prospering? What have they been doing for last 200 years or so? What have they been doing since the 40's?

I'll tell you one day hing they haven't been doing and that focusing on getting their dou try in order and becoming a functioning nation.

 

[rjs330]

The Hamas leadership knew Israel would react very strongly to their attack on Israeli citizens. They also knew that Israel would be unable to eliminate Hamas without killing tens of thousands of civilians and, in the process, casuing Israel to lose poltical support globally. On that count, Hamas has succeeded.

I would say so. If that's the truth of the matter why aren't the other Arabs helping Israel get rid of Hamas. If they did perhaps fewer Palestinians would have died.

 

[rjs330]

? In BC there is more than 100% of the land under various native claims. Every interest group regardless of race or color more or less pushes for their own best interests. That is human nature. Wars did not begin when Europeans explored the world you know. So you ask if I support selected races and peoples conducting murder and terror to get what they think they deserve? No. I do support civil disobedience when it comes to obeying God first, despite some regulations or laws of man. I think the underground believers of the early church helped to end the Roman empire. I think exposing evil and telling the truth and standing for righteousness helps make the world a better place, and even sometimes change who runs parts of it. I do not support mass murdering women and children and shooting up cities and schools and food lines and fleeing convoys and starving people.

Then clearly you do not support the Palestinians doing what they did.

 

[Philip_B]

What matters is are the facts. Because the Jews also are themselves as having deep historical ties and they have the greater claim. It's the Arabs that were the occupiers. This cannot be denied.

I am not so sure about this. All these people are ancent peoples with ancient attachments to the land. I certainly don't share your underdtanding of history.

 

[truthpls]

Then clearly you do not support the Palestinians doing what they did.

No. Not the murdering terrorists

 

[rjs330]

I am not so sure about this. All these people are ancent peoples with ancient attachments to the land. I certainly don't share your underdtanding of history.

Well you should. Cause it's the correct one.

 

[rjs330]

No. Not the murdering terrorists

Or the ones who supported them.

 

[JosephZ]

No one is denying the arabs existence.

This is true, but some are denying the existance of Palestinians.

Except that they weren't Palestinians. There was never any such things as Palestinians as we talk about today.

The so called Palestinians

"Palestinians" as used today are an invented people.

In fact the Jews don't deny their existence or rights to be. It's actually the Arabs that are the deniers here. THEY are the ones denying Israel's right to exist. The Jews never have.

Once again, we are talking about Palestinians.

Israel has never recognized an independent state of Palestine, however; Palestinian leaders, such as President Mahmoud Abbas and Yasser Arafat, have recognized Israel as legitimate in the past. Israel is the one denying Palestine's right to exist.

It's my question, someone needs to answer it. I don't need to answer my own question.

My question was worded a little different, but I'll answer your question.

How would you feel if the Indians decided to take back some of the land they occupied? Would you support them?

If it is land that they were promised under treaties with the United States government that they weren't given or was taken from them, I would have no problem with that and would support them 100%.

Now you can answer mine. What would you do if the native Americans started moving to and occupying your state in large numbers and eventually demanded that you and your family move out because it was their ancestral land? Would you resist and try to keep your land and home, or would you just pack up and leave?

If I recall correctly you claim they've had the land for a very long time. So now suddenly they can't do any prospering?

The Palestinians can no longer prosper because of the restrictions placed on them by the Israelis.

What have they been doing for last 200 years or so?

Palestine was prosperous prior to 1948.

What have they been doing since the 40's?

Suffering under Isreali control.

I'll tell you one day hing they haven't been doing and that focusing on getting their dou try in order and becoming a functioning nation.

It's impossible to become a functioning nation when every move is controlled by another. Once again, Israel controls the movement of people and goods in and out of the Palestinian territories and hasn't given the Palestinians an opportunity to prosper.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Hamas tells negotiators it doesn’t have 40 Israeli hostages (of the right type) needed for first round of ceasefire​

Hamas has indicated it is currently unable to identify and track down 40 Israeli hostages needed for the first phase of a ceasefire deal, according to an Israeli official and a source familiar with the discussions, raising fears that more hostages may be dead than are publicly known.

The framework that has been laid out by negotiators says that during a first six-week pause in the fighting, Hamas should release 40 of the remaining hostages, including all the women as well as sick and elderly men. In exchange, hundreds of Palestinian prisoners would be released from Israeli prisons.

With Hamas appearing to be unable to reach 40 in the proposed categories, Israel has pushed for Hamas to fill out the initial release with younger male hostages, including soldiers, the Israeli official said.

 

[truthpls]

Or the ones who supported them.

That means nothing when attempting to apply it to a civilian population. It also gets murky when a population has every right and duty to object to being treated like prisoners and having lands stolen etc. Probably most of them wanted something to be done, some effort made to restore freedom and dignity and even lands etc. Because of past atrocities and killings of many family members by Israel, probably many of them were driven to desperation enough to wish the fanatics well in fighting their enemy. That is no excuse to murder tens of thousands of women and children, sorry.

 

[JosephZ]

US Sees Missile Strike on Israel By Iran, Proxies as Imminent

The US and its allies believe major missile or drone strikes by Iran or its proxies against military and government targets in Israel are imminent, in what would mark a significant widening of the six-month-old conflict, according to people familiar with the intelligence.

The potential assault, possibly using high-precision missiles, may happen in the coming days, the people said, requesting anonymity to discuss confidential matters. It is seen as more a matter of when, not if, one of the people said, based on assessments from US and Israeli intelligence.

Israel’s Western allies have been told Israeli government and military facilities may be targeted but civilian facilities are not expected to be, they said. US officials are helping Israel on planning and sharing intelligence assessments, the people said.

Israel has told allies it is waiting for this attack to take place before launching another ground offensive against Hamas in Rafah in Gaza, though it’s not clear how soon that operation may begin.