Does Theistic Evolution Honor and Glorify God.

[BobRyan]

Man came out of africa 40,000 years ago. We see fish hooks and sowing needles made out of bone. They needed clothing to come up out of africa into the colder climate that was controlled by Neanderthal at the time. We can write many books on all of this.

No doubt there is no end of coming up with guesses on the subject or origins

John 21:25 "Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be ..."

Yes but it does not say "Jesus contradicted all of scripture and we decided not to tell you about it"

We still have to go with what is written.

 

[Diamond7]

How does the following article about human evolution fit into your theistic evolution beliefs...

We all agree on micro evolution we all disagree on macro evolution. I do not believe in mutations because God does not make mistakes. This is where non theistic evolutionists are grasping at straws in their denial of God and the part He played when He spoke us into existence. DNA is the langrage God speaks and God does not stutter. He does not make mistakes, no errors. If there are any mutations is it because man is in a fallen condition and in need of redemption. Actually mutations fix and repair themselves. I believe it was NOT God's plan for dinosaurs to consume each other. Man is a special creation. God made man to rule over all of His creation.

Genesis 1: 26Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness, to rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, and over all the earth itselfd and every creature that crawls upon it.”


male and female He created them.

This is what would take every book in the world to explain what God SAID He was going to do in verse 26 and what He did do in verse 27 at the time of Pangea when He destoryed the dinosaurs in a world wide flood.

Galations 5:15 "But if you bite and devour one another, take heed, lest you might be consumed by one another"

God breathed life into man when He created an atmosphere suitable for humans. Each and every breath is a gift from God. It is a miracle that I am alive. I have a pacemaker and a defibulator. I believe God has a reason why He keeps me alive. To tell people what I am telling them. God gave me a wife that keeps me alive. If it were not for her I would not be alive having this conversation with you.

I do not want to talk about the details because the wages of sin is death. But God is more then able to rescue, save, heal and deliver us. Then He will tell us how stupid we are to be disobedient to Him to harm ourselves the way we do. We need to follow His commandments to do what is good and right and true. Anyone that wants to continue to be a sinner better be ready to dial 911 and go to the emergency room. Which may not be their idea of having a good time.

1. Ventricular Tachycardia Ablation:
   • This procedure uses either cold or heat energy to create tiny scars in the heart. These scars block faulty signals that cause the rapid, irregular heartbeat associated with VT. Essentially, a cardiologist “burns” and creates scar tissue in specific parts of the heart to prevent irregular beats

 

[Hazelelponi]

I could not disagree more.
According to what the Bible clearly teaches, I do not see any evidence in the scriptures that the Lord God used evolution to create life. God is the Creator, not the Evolutioner.

This looks like a fun conversation to have so I'll jump in to be contrary...

God himself stands outside of time yes?

Since I've become Christian my idea of time has changed and my mind goes in and out of time - since God Himself is outside of it and a malleable perception of time is helpful. Just understanding Scripture in this way changes our perception of time I believe.

But here's what I think. I think God's "days" are more like epochs or era's during the creation period.. For instance, the Jurassic period etc. (Time as we perceive it didn't exist then).

However, I do believe like you that we were created "as is", and that evolution itself is a lie, though all of God's creation is created to be adaptive to environment and so forth.

But whether those who believe God didn't create as is, I don't see it as thinking lesser in any way of God, He's still an awesome Creator nonetheless.

I will say the thinking is adding quite a bit of liberalism to Scripture, because in the end all we can really say is we believe God regardless of the details.

We just understand God maybe all a little differently.

 

[stevevw]

That is what Paul says. People are without excuse because creation proclaims the glory of God.

Yes and its also what the research shows that humans are born with an innate belief in telology and a supernatural agent behind what we see. So its in us and not taught to us. We infact work hard as a society to get belief out of us and even then we still have a propensity to believe in such things by replacing this with other ideas.

Its like if you find a watch on a deserted beach you immediately understand there was some sort of maker behind it. But of course people like Dawkins will say this just has the appearence of design and give the created itself the creative power.

But this doesn't seem to be enough and we still have that lingering belief that theres more to it than that. That for nature itself to be able to do such things requires some order and laws which themselves don't just come from nothing.

 

[Diamond7]

humans are born with an innate belief in telology and a supernatural agent behind what we see.

We do not see anything. It is what our brain perceives what we see. I was a technical theater major. When we control the lighting we control your reality. Also I have done a lot of photography and now I am working with color and light. The way we perceive things may or may not be what they are.

 

[Diamond7]

Its like if you find a watch

My dad use to love fancy watches. It is interesting to compare watches from 50 years ago with watches today.

 

[stevevw]

We do not see anything. It is what our brain perceives what we see. I was a technical theater major. When we control the lighting we control your reality. Also I have done a lot of photography and now I am working with color and light. The way we perceive things may or may not be what they are. View attachment 346030

That to me is an arguement for the objective reality we see and think is what makes reality is actually just an illusion or a reflection of some deeper non physical reality at work behind what we see.

 

[stevevw]

My dad use to love fancy watches. It is interesting to compare watches from 50 years ago with watches today.

Well if you found a watch from today 50 years ago then things would really get weird.

 

[Diamond7]

Well if you found a watch from today 50 years ago then things would really get weird.

I would get rich if it were in good working condition. They cost a lot of money back then. It was one of the few things my dad would spurge on for himself. Although I do not think he got the actual swiss watch. He use to love to go to NYC and you could buy just about anything there.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

• Theistic evolution acknowledges that God’s creative process may involve gradual development over vast periods.
• Rather than seeing evolution as random or purposeless, theistic evolutionists perceive it as part of God’s ongoing work.

There is nothing better than to worship, praise, honor and glorify God. When we see what God has done all the more we want to honor Him.

The Theory of Evolution neither glorifies and honors God nor disparages or dishonors Him. It is simply an observation about the change of biological life in and throughout what we understand to be Natural History.

 

[stevevw]

I would get rich if it were in good working condition. They cost a lot of money back then. It was one of the few things my dad would spurge on for himself. Although I do not think he got the actual swiss watch. He use to love to go to NYC and you could buy just about anything there.

From memory I don't think the digital watches had come out yet. So they were the proper tick tock clocks with all the mechanisms, a work of art. I remember clocks everywhere, We had this hallway standing clock with the chimes or dongs, can't remember. But I remember the ticks of clocks throughout my childhood.

I also remember getting the digital watch later and thought it was amazing tech back then. Just think it only took the tech of a mobile phone to reach the moon back then. But it was cool. But I always liked the traditional watches.

Now we can actually create a virtual old style watch within a digital interface. Maybe thats a sign of the times that the original is always the best and most authentic.

 

[Diamond7]

I also remember getting the digital watch later

I had a Texas Instrument calculator watch when I was working and people were amazed by that. Alexa does most of my math for me now. I remember when I studied Trigonometry we used tables to figure out the answer. The first computer I used that was the size of a room. We were required to use it to do trigonometry for a survey class I was taking.

 

[stevevw]

I had a Texas Instrument calculator watch when I was working and people were amazed by that. Alexa does most of my math for me now. I remember when I studied Trigonometry we used tables to figure out the answer. The first computer I used that was the size of a room. We were required to use it to do trigonometry for a survey class I was taking.

Yes I have heard of how big top computers were that probably only had a fraction of todays PC's. Speaking of Texas Instruments I am pretty sure that they also made kids toys and I remember my daughter when we was about 2 or 3 having some plastic interface with all the bells and whistles and tunes on it. I think it had shapes and they light up with an electronic voice says "thats the red square" or played tunes.

I know this is off topic but I have to tell a story about a similar toy we had at work in the community centre. We supervised kids through play therapy. I was at the centre later on my own and was checking all the rooms and I hear this electroci voice in the background somewhere. It was coming from the kids room on the shelf facing me at the doorway.

The voice said "I can see you lets play". This wasn't helped by the fact there was some story about a kid being seen in the foyer one night on the CTV. But I just laughed off the toy and thought thats cool. But then I played along and said "see you later" (Aussie slang for bye) to the toy and it immediate replied "bye bye". I freaked and bolted out of there and that became the new scary story at work and some were freaking me out with scares for the next month or so lol.

I went and checked the toy the next day and it said all the things I heard which was sort of a relief but still I wondered lol. I had to ring someone before I left to tell them I was leaving as a security measure and I kept getting the phone number wrong as I was panicking to get out of there lol. It was like when a stranger calls, I was freaking lol.

 

[Diamond7]

No doubt there is no end of coming up with guesses on the subject or origins

What are we guessing at? We have artifacts that God has preserved for us to study.
You are free to study the evidence for yourself and come to your own conclusions.
People can only migrate north if they have clothing to keep warm. Even the Bible talks about that.
Of course the Bible talks about fig leaves, so it is no wonder people are confused about this stuff.
They made clothing 40,000 years ago the same as today. Only today we have machines.
Also today and this is very recent, we have synthetics like nylon. We did not have nylon until WW2.
When I was growing up we did not even have plastic. Tents were made from a organic material.
Canvas is made from cotton. The water proofing did not work all that well and the odor was not good.

It is very difficult to study clothing because very little remains. Except it is preserved in the bogs.
Many artifacts, including human bodies, have been found in bogs, perfectly preserved for thousands of years.
In fact, some bog bodies are so well-preserved that scientists can still analyze the contents of their stomachs,
revealing their last meals and offering insights into ancient diets.

 

[Diamond7]

We still have to go with what is written.

I have had a standing offer for over 30 years for anyone to find any science that contradicts the Bible. No one has ever been able to do that. Science and the Bible agree 100%.

 

[BobRyan]

I have had a standing offer for over 30 years for anyone to find any science that contradicts the Bible. No one has ever been able to do that. Science and the Bible agree 100%.

agreed.

But wild guesses vs the Bible - often do not agree

 

[BobRyan]

What are we guessing at? We have artifacts that God has preserved for us to study.

agreed.

COLIN PATTERSON : “Evolution” (2nd Edition)​

​

Ch. 14 - Proof and disproof; science and politics​

14.2 Is evolution science?

" [The general theory of evolution] must be unique and unrepeatable, like the history of England. Before Darwin, species were generally thought to be fixed and immutable, each with some discoverable and universal essence, like the elements or chemical compounds. Darwin explained species as temporary, local things, each with a beginning and an end depending on contingencies of history. So the general theory of evolution is a historical theory, about unique events - and unique events are, by some definitions, not part of science for they are unrepeatable and so not subject to test. ..."

What are we guessing at? We have artifacts ...

=================

Sunderland – reports:


On April 10, 1979, Patterson replied to the author in a most candid letter as follows:

"You say that I should at least show a photo of the fossil from which each type of organism was derived. I will lay it on the line- there is not one such fossil for which one could make a watertight argument. The reason is that statements about ancestry and descent are not applicable in the fossil record. Is Archaeopteryx the ancestor of all birds? Perhaps yes, perhaps no there is no way of answering the question. It is easy enough to make up stories of how one form gave rise to another, and to find reasons why the stages should be favoured by natural selection. But such stories are not part of science, for there is no way of putting them to the test. So, much as I should like to oblige you by jumping to the defence of gradualism, and fleshing out the transitions between the major types of animals and plants, I find myself a bit short of the intellectual justification necessary for the job “

[Ref: Patterson, personal communication. Documented in Darwin’s Enigma, Luther Sunderland, Master Books, El Cajon, CA, 1988, pp. 88-90.]

 

[Diamond7]

14.2 Is evolution science?

Science is in a constant state of change. The Bible remains the same from the beginning. Still science seeks to examine the evidence that God has given us. God wants us to know what He has done. He gives us wisdom, knowledge and understanding.

 

[BobRyan]

Science is in a constant state of change.

in all stages --
1. is it observable
2. is it testable
3. is it falsifiable
4. is it repeatable

When those are answered "no" -- it is not science. Rather it is a story, a suggestion, a proposal, in some cases a preference.

The Bible remains the same from the beginning.

Amen

 

[Diamond7]

in all stages --
1. is it observable
2. is it testable
3. is it falsifiable
4. is it repeatable

A lot of people use science to test their understanding and interpretation of the Bible.

I remember a story about a women who died and they found her Bible. There were many passages that she wrote TTT next to. They wondered about it and found out the meaning was Tested, Tried and found True.